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Wait so the Houston Mayor told people to stick around they would be fine?
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C2__ Offline
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Post: #161
RE: Wait so the Houston Mayor told people to stick around they would be fine?
Yeah, we know San Antonio got it easy now but there was no way of knowing for sure it would get off the hook last week.

You really are pulling my leg, I can't believe I'm still going back and forth.
08-30-2017 05:18 PM
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I45owl Offline
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Post: #162
RE: Wait so the Houston Mayor told people to stick around they would be fine?
(08-30-2017 11:10 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(08-30-2017 10:15 AM)I45owl Wrote:  Understand that anytime you order an evacuation - even in good weather - you can predict a number of deaths that are caused by the evacuation... in the case of Houston, it would probably be in the hundreds, just from not being able to find shelter once they leave or from vulnerable patients from nursing homes and hospitals. The disaster would've probably been much worse had Turner ordered an evacuation.
I have yet to find a single death from last falls evacuations dues to Hurricane Matthew and that evacuation ran from Florida to North Carolina. Are people in Texas that bad of drivers?
In South Carolina how it works is when the evacuation order is issued they open shelters to house the evacuees. In most cases these shelters are at schools because of the available cooking and hygiene facilities available. I know last fall my son was out of school several days because his high school was serving as a shelter.
As for vulnerable patients....can you list how many deaths there have been from the evacuations of the 21 Texas hospitals that have been evacuated because of the storm? I know the 10 NICU babies that they evacuated Friday morning from Driscoll in Corpus Christie all made it to Fort Worth alive because I follow one of the companies that did the transport on Facebook.

My statement is probably overly broad and not particularly well-informed, but I did find these guidelines online...

Mass Evacuation and
Sheltering, Fire Protection and Safety Engineering Technology, Oklahoma State University

Quote:Before an evacuation is declared, policy makers, emergency responders, and Emergency Operation Center (EOC) managers need to weigh the benefits against the dangers of an evacuation (which can be done through methods such as a cost benefit analysis). A common misconception of evacuation is that it eliminates danger, when in fact there is a danger associated with evacuating people and individuals have been injured or killed during evacuations (Abelman, 2007). Sheltering in place can be considered, but there should not be hesitation in mobilizing resources for an evacuation. These considerations must be based on the incident at hand and the proper hazard understanding and preplanning (by the emergency management and authority having jurisdiction) of the community.

There are parts of Houston that I probably could've told you would have water in their house. I'm not sure that you can say for certain that you'd know which parts of the city would be so flooded that it is life threatening though. Where and when the rain falls, as well as ongoing development may make that change from year to year. But, I think it's reasonable that you would tell certain parts of the metropolitan area to evacuate but not the city as a whole, and at the same time make plans for those most vulnerable. My 100 year old uncle was offered a place to stay by his former son-in-law but insisted that he stay at his (first floor) apartment. Thankfully, he is ok.
08-30-2017 06:25 PM
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olliebaba Offline
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Post: #163
RE: Wait so the Houston Mayor told people to stick around they would be fine?
(08-30-2017 01:41 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(08-30-2017 10:27 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  One of the most dramatic financial impacts of not evacuating certain areas is that those working poor lost their car. That would be the single most valuable asset they had, and was their lifeline to a job. Most of these people live in apartments, so the structure wasnt theirs, the content in many cases would be fine if they were on floors 2 or 3. But losing their car would be a severe blow to them.

It'll be okay. People will band together and the government can offer grants. That's life, natural disasters take away life, limb and property. There's no possible way everyone in the city could have left. When things go wrong, people can make adjustments.

That's when the city should give the people a break and provide free bus trips for a certain time. It would help the city as much as the people because remember that it generates revenue for the city, like tourism.
08-30-2017 06:43 PM
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WoodlandsOwl Offline
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Post: #164
RE: Wait so the Houston Mayor told people to stick around they would be fine?
(08-30-2017 06:25 PM)I45owl Wrote:  
(08-30-2017 11:10 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(08-30-2017 10:15 AM)I45owl Wrote:  Understand that anytime you order an evacuation - even in good weather - you can predict a number of deaths that are caused by the evacuation... in the case of Houston, it would probably be in the hundreds, just from not being able to find shelter once they leave or from vulnerable patients from nursing homes and hospitals. The disaster would've probably been much worse had Turner ordered an evacuation.
I have yet to find a single death from last falls evacuations dues to Hurricane Matthew and that evacuation ran from Florida to North Carolina. Are people in Texas that bad of drivers?
In South Carolina how it works is when the evacuation order is issued they open shelters to house the evacuees. In most cases these shelters are at schools because of the available cooking and hygiene facilities available. I know last fall my son was out of school several days because his high school was serving as a shelter.
As for vulnerable patients....can you list how many deaths there have been from the evacuations of the 21 Texas hospitals that have been evacuated because of the storm? I know the 10 NICU babies that they evacuated Friday morning from Driscoll in Corpus Christie all made it to Fort Worth alive because I follow one of the companies that did the transport on Facebook.

My statement is probably overly broad and not particularly well-informed, but I did find these guidelines online...

Mass Evacuation and
Sheltering, Fire Protection and Safety Engineering Technology, Oklahoma State University

Quote:Before an evacuation is declared, policy makers, emergency responders, and Emergency Operation Center (EOC) managers need to weigh the benefits against the dangers of an evacuation (which can be done through methods such as a cost benefit analysis). A common misconception of evacuation is that it eliminates danger, when in fact there is a danger associated with evacuating people and individuals have been injured or killed during evacuations (Abelman, 2007). Sheltering in place can be considered, but there should not be hesitation in mobilizing resources for an evacuation. These considerations must be based on the incident at hand and the proper hazard understanding and preplanning (by the emergency management and authority having jurisdiction) of the community.

There are parts of Houston that I probably could've told you would have water in their house. I'm not sure that you can say for certain that you'd know which parts of the city would be so flooded that it is life threatening though. Where and when the rain falls, as well as ongoing development may make that change from year to year. But, I think it's reasonable that you would tell certain parts of the metropolitan area to evacuate but not the city as a whole, and at the same time make plans for those most vulnerable. My 100 year old uncle was offered a place to stay by his former son-in-law but insisted that he stay at his (first floor) apartment. Thankfully, he is ok.

That's my complaint as well. Based upon history, you know what areas will flood even with a X inch, Y day weather event.

It doesn't help when many sections of Houston Freeways are built below grade-- 288, 69, 10 which flood and cut off evacuation routes.

I hope Harvey causes TxDot to rethink the plans to build the combined 69/45 route around the east side of Downtown below grade.
08-30-2017 06:51 PM
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C2__ Offline
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Post: #165
RE: Wait so the Houston Mayor told people to stick around they would be fine?
(08-30-2017 06:43 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  
(08-30-2017 01:41 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(08-30-2017 10:27 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  One of the most dramatic financial impacts of not evacuating certain areas is that those working poor lost their car. That would be the single most valuable asset they had, and was their lifeline to a job. Most of these people live in apartments, so the structure wasnt theirs, the content in many cases would be fine if they were on floors 2 or 3. But losing their car would be a severe blow to them.

It'll be okay. People will band together and the government can offer grants. That's life, natural disasters take away life, limb and property. There's no possible way everyone in the city could have left. When things go wrong, people can make adjustments.

That's when the city should give the people a break and provide free bus trips for a certain time. It would help the city as much as the people because remember that it generates revenue for the city, like tourism.

LOL, tourism in Houston. That's a good one. Point taken...
08-30-2017 07:23 PM
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C2__ Offline
Caltex2
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Post: #166
RE: Wait so the Houston Mayor told people to stick around they would be fine?
(08-30-2017 06:51 PM)WoodlandsOwl Wrote:  That's my complaint as well. Based upon history, you know what areas will flood even with a X inch, Y day weather event.

It doesn't help when many sections of Houston Freeways are built below grade-- 288, 69, 10 which flood and cut off evacuation routes.

I hope Harvey causes TxDot to rethink the plans to build the combined 69/45 route around the east side of Downtown below grade.

I like LA's streetscape. Not only is it a grid (you can head in a straight line for miles and miles) but the freeways are elevated. That would have helped tremendously the past few days
08-30-2017 07:33 PM
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