Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
OT: Goodbye Jackson, Ashby, Maury etc etc etc ...
Author Message
Bookmark and Share
Centdukesfan Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,998
Joined: Apr 2013
Reputation: 50
I Root For: Dukes, bud
Location:
Post: #41
RE: OT: Goodbye Jackson, Ashby, Maury etc etc etc ...
you opinion presented as fact - "trump supports the KKK"

its just ridiculous hyperbole.
08-25-2017 02:04 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BDKJMU Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,513
Joined: Apr 2013
Reputation: 16
I Root For: James Madison
Location:
Post: #42
RE: OT: Goodbye Jackson, Ashby, Maury etc etc etc ...
What about Robert Byrd? Grand Kleagle in the KKK. Incredibly racist statements in his younger days. Dropping the N word in a TV interview as late as 2001. Democrat senator until 2010. I guess he gets a pass though since he was a democrat and did a great job bringing pork to his home (what used to be a solidly blue) state. Probably the #1 senator in US history in bringing home the bacon.

Something like 56 places named after him in WV. Should any of those names be changed?
08-25-2017 02:08 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bcp_jmu Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,985
Joined: Apr 2013
Reputation: 22
I Root For: James Madison!!
Location:
Post: #43
RE: OT: Goodbye Jackson, Ashby, Maury etc etc etc ...
Fair to say that Trump supports freedom of speech - even hate speech...i'd say Jimmy would be OK with that (despite the shame of ridiculous hatred, immoral isn't always illegal)
08-25-2017 02:09 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Potomac Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,274
Joined: Apr 2013
Reputation: 30
I Root For: James Madison
Location:
Post: #44
RE: OT: Goodbye Jackson, Ashby, Maury etc etc etc ...
(08-25-2017 02:08 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  What about Robert Byrd? Grand Kleagle in the KKK. Incredibly racist statements in his younger days. Dropping the N word in a TV interview as late as 2001. Democrat senator until 2010. I guess he gets a pass though since he was a democrat and did a great job bringing pork to his home (what used to be a solidly blue) state. Probably the #1 senator in US history in bringing home the bacon.

Something like 56 places named after him in WV. Should any of those names be changed?

It's really all up to the local municipalities or whoever has ownership. They put it up, they can change it or take it down.

If true about Byrd, shame on him. I won't defend that.
08-25-2017 02:11 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BDKJMU Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,513
Joined: Apr 2013
Reputation: 16
I Root For: James Madison
Location:
Post: #45
RE: OT: Goodbye Jackson, Ashby, Maury etc etc etc ...
(08-25-2017 02:11 PM)Potomac Wrote:  
(08-25-2017 02:08 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  What about Robert Byrd? Grand Kleagle in the KKK. Incredibly racist statements in his younger days. Dropping the N word in a TV interview as late as 2001. Democrat senator until 2010. I guess he gets a pass though since he was a democrat and did a great job bringing pork to his home (what used to be a solidly blue) state. Probably the #1 senator in US history in bringing home the bacon.

Something like 56 places named after him in WV. Should any of those names be changed?

It's really all up to the local municipalities or whoever has ownership. They put it up, they can change it or take it down.

If true about Byrd, shame on him. I won't defend that.
Oh its true. Google is your friend.
08-25-2017 02:18 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
chicagoduke Offline
2nd String
*

Posts: 297
Joined: Jan 2014
Reputation: 13
I Root For: Dukes
Location: Chicago
Post: #46
RE: OT: Goodbye Jackson, Ashby, Maury etc etc etc ...
This is a JMU board, so I’m going to keep this related to JMU. I have my own personal thoughts about statues, confederate flags and other types of topics, but this isn’t the place to debate those topics.

However, we have two issues that directly relate to JMU and I don’t think it’s a bad idea to civilly discuss their relevance to the university.

First, we have the Turner Ashby monument. I personally don’t see any issue with this being on campus. I view this as merely a marker of an incident of some historical significance. It reminds me of a tombstone more than anything else. It’s definitely not a statue. I think it’s appropriate because it doesn’t seem to elevate the man to epic proportions. The inscription is somewhat subdued as well. “Gen. Turner Ashby C.S.A. was killed on this spot, June 6, 1862, gallantly leading a charge.” I would be upset if this was removed from its current location. Removing this would feel like trying to erase history.

The second topic are the three buildings named after Confederate generals, and this issue is significantly more complicated.

Let’s first realize that it’s a tremendous honor to have a JMU building named after a person. Most of our buildings are named after people who dedicated portions their lives in some manner to our great university. These are favorite educators, university leaders and administrators, and significant donors. These people have strong and obvious connections to our university. I’m sure all of these people had their flaws, but that doesn’t erase their positive contributions to the university.

Then we come to Jackson, Maury, and Ashby. None of these men have a connection to JMU. None of these men were alive when JMU was founded. All of them were born hours away from JMU. The only connection I can find to JMU is related to Ashby, who was killed nearby (and there’s obviously a monument memorializing that fact). Because these men don’t have a connection to JMU or the nearby area, I don’t see a need to continue to honor them by naming some of JMU’s most beautiful buildings after them.

I think it’s important to remember who these men were. Although I’m sure they were loving family men and did some honorable things during their lives, their most significant contribution to history is that they fought AGAINST the United States. It’s hard to view them as anything but traitors against the USA. They put their lives on the line to protect the “southern way of life” and “states’ rights”, both of which are clever current day synonyms for protecting slavery. Fighting bloody battles against the United States in order to defend slavery should disqualify you for this honor.

It’s also critical to understand when these buildings received their names and the historical context. They were named at the height of Jim Crow, in a time when buildings and monuments were erected honoring confederates in order to continue to remind former slaves and their descendants who was still in charge of the south. I recommend spending some time studying Jim Crow if you’re not intimately familiar for more context.

Finally, I think it’s important to think about how these names might affect our current students. Asking an African American student to take classes in Jackson hall is not much different than asking a Jewish student to take classes in a building named after Himmler, Eichmann, Goebbels, or Goering. Let that one sink in for a minute.

That’s my two cents. I believe that we have two choices: JMU can sit back and accept the status quo, or it can “Be The Change”.
(This post was last modified: 08-25-2017 02:50 PM by chicagoduke.)
08-25-2017 02:38 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bjk3047 Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 961
Joined: Apr 2013
Reputation: 10
I Root For: JMU DUKES.
Location:
Post: #47
RE: OT: Goodbye Jackson, Ashby, Maury etc etc etc ...
I'll just say this because I'm shocked the distinction has not been emphasized on this thread.
Q: Why don't we take down statues of Jefferson/MLK/Madison for [insert reason here]?
A: BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT OVERT AND DELIBERATE TRAITORS TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

This is the least slippery slope imagineable.
08-25-2017 02:45 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Halz87 Offline
Bench Warmer
*

Posts: 208
Joined: Jan 2014
Reputation: 0
I Root For: JMU
Location:
Post: #48
RE: OT: Goodbye Jackson, Ashby, Maury etc etc etc ...
as stated....context.

Robert Bird had despicable thoughts that are well documented in his life. He was an old man.
His denunciation of those thoughts later in life is also fairly well documented. (fwiw....It seemed to be an honest transformation and not just expedient lip service).

I really don't see where that is a relevant rebuttal to mentioning Trump's dog whistles to the far right. What's next....."emails and Benghazi"? You would have to be an extreme political neophyte not to acknowledge Trump's bromance with Neo-Nazis. It is disgusting and that is about the nicest thing I can say about it.
08-25-2017 02:46 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Potomac Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,274
Joined: Apr 2013
Reputation: 30
I Root For: James Madison
Location:
Post: #49
RE: OT: Goodbye Jackson, Ashby, Maury etc etc etc ...
Excellent post chicagoduke.

A related point, some are calling for the renaming of Washington & Lee, even if there's no real momentum there. I couldn't disagree more. Robert E Lee was a former president of the then Washington College and leaders of the college decided to add his name to the college after his passing for his contributions to the college.
08-25-2017 02:47 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
jmu007 Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,017
Joined: Mar 2013
Reputation: 20
I Root For: James Madison
Location: RVA
Post: #50
RE: OT: Goodbye Jackson, Ashby, Maury etc etc etc ...
I second the motion to move this thread off the main board and into the Off-Topic section.
08-25-2017 02:50 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2018 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2018 MyBB Group.