https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/22/the-10-m...ities.html

Maybe this should be moved to an off-topic forum but we should never discuss W&M athletics without considering the school's drive to become more independent of the state - and the resulting challenges from that effort.

I don't know how long these tuition rates can be sustained.

I had no idea VMI was that expensive...

(08-23-2017 02:46 PM)tribeinexile Wrote:  https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/22/the-10-m...ities.html

Maybe this should be moved to an off-topic forum but we should never discuss W&M athletics without considering the school's drive to become more independent of the state - and the resulting challenges from that effort.

I don't know how long these tuition rates can be sustained.

One evening I had nothing better to do and calculated that if the General Assembly would allow W&M to admit 50% students from out-of-state, we could put the money in a fund for in-state students. After one generation, about 26 years, the fund would be able to endow scholarships which would cover every Virginia student forever. I thought it would be cool for one generation of non-Virginians to pay for all future Virginians. Plus it would make the College more competitive in the process.

Alas, an acquaintance in the GA (who may be a board reader) says that the tide is running the other way. Too many legislators want to clamp down further on out-of-state students.

IMO, going private would be politically and financially impossible. The Commonwealth doesn't pay a great deal toward operating expenses, but it has financed billions in infrastructure improvements.

That is the dilemma.

The necessary compromise is (a) increased state funding and (b) increased rate of in-state students.

Decreasing state funding, but increasing the rate of in-state students, does not work economically, unless in-state tuition goes up.

Furthermore, W&M is one politically-correct nightmare away from killing the golden goose (comprised of the alumni / friends of the College) which is covering for the state shortfall at the present time.

The ineptness of the state legislature towards higher ed isn't going to change..that is why we're in the midst of Reveley's one billion dollar endowment fund-raising campaign.

For years I have advocated mitigating the high costs of out of state athletic scholarships.

Hard to believe that my out-of-state tuition when I started at the College a little over 10 years ago is now about the same cost as tuition for in-state students.

The funding model for higher education is broken. Too many kids are being funneled into a 4 year college and not enough into trade schools and cc's imho. If you don't believe me try moving and starting over again to find competent and affordable tradesmen (women).

This creates an artificial demand for 4 year colleges that is compounded by easy debt for students that further props up the unrestrained costs of the system.

The results of this is unbelievably high tuition, too many graduates with unsustainable debt levels, and very high costs in other areas where there is an artificially low pool of workers.

At W&M, we see this in spades. One year instate is more than I paid for 4 years plus MBA. Being at the top of the heap creates an even greater imbalance UVA and W&M. Its telling that VA and CA are at the top of the student cost list. It is a looming problem that has a bigger than a $1B cost tag I'm afraid.

As WC Fields said,"There's a sucker born every minute." If Wm and Mary can attract more of these fools; why not? It boosts the margins.

(08-28-2017 07:04 AM)SoCal Frank Wrote:  As WC Fields said,"There's a sucker born every minute." If Wm and Mary can attract more of these fools; why not? It boosts the margins.

For shame!!

???Why would anyone who wanted to go to WM be a fool???

(08-28-2017 07:04 AM)SoCal Frank Wrote:  As WC Fields said,"There's a sucker born every minute." If Wm and Mary can attract more of these fools; why not? It boosts the margins.

No, it doesn't boost the margins. That's the point. As a state-funded school, we can only have about 35% of our students from out of state. I recall that the commonwealth tried to reduce that to 25% a few years back and we (along with UVA and VT (?)) negotiated an agreement to accept more state students over the next few years instead of having the percentage go down to 25%.

Read what Mr. Ribe posted again:

If the General Assembly would allow W&M to admit 50% students from out-of-state, we could put the money in a fund for in-state students. After one generation, about 26 years, the fund would be able to endow scholarships which would cover every Virginia student forever. I thought it would be cool for one generation of non-Virginians to pay for all future Virginians. Plus it would make the College more competitive in the process.

After one generation, every state student's tuition would be paid for FOREVER.

It would be hard to sell to the next in-state generation, but think about what it would do to every generation after that. I have watched how the Hope Scholarship in Georgia has improved the status of the University of Georgia. Really smart kids who otherwise would have looked at out of state schools are staying in Georgia because it is free.

The Commonwealth of VA does not support state colleges adequately yet they demand 65% allocation for in-state students. I remember a few years back NOVA parents were pressuring state legislators to raise the in-state portion because too many of NOVA students were getting rejected by WM and Uva. I am all for something like 60-40 instead of 65-35.

(08-28-2017 09:31 AM)tribeintexas Wrote:  The Commonwealth of VA does not support state colleges adequately yet they demand 65% allocation for in-state students. I remember a few years back NOVA parents were pressuring state legislators to raise the in-state portion because too many of NOVA students were getting rejected by WM and Uva. I am all for something like 60-40 instead of 65-35.

According to my acquaintance in the GA, the in-state student ratio is sensitive for a very, very simple reason: Legislators receive phone calls when constituents can't get into W&M, UVa, or VT, and those calls make the legislators appear weak.


(I even thought of working on some group of "Commonwealth Scholars" in which each GA member would be able to appoint one person each year to W&M, as a way to squeeze a higher out-of-state percentage, but then I decided to get back to the Red Sox game.)

This thing happened, but I'm not sure what the tangible results were: http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504....l+CHAP0933

Quote:An Act providing management agreements between the Commonwealth and Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University, The College of William and Mary in Virginia, and the University of Virginia, respectively, pursuant to the Restructured Higher Education Financial and Administrative Operations Act, Chapter 4.10 (§ 23-38.88 et seq.) of the Code of Virginia.

Why shouldn't students or their families pay for their education? They are the purported beneficiaries. If they can't afford it; go online. The taxpayers are too busy paying for all this other stuff. Maybe Virginians should secede from non Virginians?

Frank, believe it or not, there are individuals and families who work very hard but still find it difficult to pay rent. Some of these people have the nerve to try for a better life and know that a college degree will help them achieve that. They can file for Pell grants, loans, etc but it's pretty difficult to manage bills, attend W&M, and work...increased costs mean increased burden which, decreases the chance at success.

I agree, we should do all we can to pay our own way but pricing low to middle income VA residents out of an in-state public school is bad for everyone.


Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Its easy to fix this if the state continues to refuse to directly fund the university at prior %.

Instead of giving a blank check to decrease the tuition dollar figure, VA can increase the $ they alot to need-based grants that are specific to each university's tuition costs.

This effectively makes a high cost in-state university a hidden tax on the wealthy.
-Those who can afford it pay full price, students receiving no support.
-Those who cant have heavily subsidized tuition with grants and scholarships, which are largely state funded.

This issue has very little to do with William and Mary, but is one that exists in our public education system at the university level. Costs have sky rocketed as more and more students go to college. Fifty years ago, very few folks actually went to college compared to today. Somebody has to pay for all of the infrastructure, professors, administrative personnel, etc. The choice is simple IMO. Make two year community college the norm for most students or at least those with financial need, and make it free(ish). This defrays the costs by a significant factor and allows students to commute for two years. Then they can go finish the last two years somewhere away from home or do most of the degree work on line. Where I live in Loudoun County, this is a very popular path for students.

(08-30-2017 08:04 AM)nogretheogre Wrote:  Its easy to fix this if the state continues to refuse to directly fund the university at prior %.

Instead of giving a blank check to decrease the tuition dollar figure, VA can increase the $ they alot to need-based grants that are specific to each university's tuition costs.

This effectively makes a high cost in-state university a hidden tax on the wealthy.
-Those who can afford it pay full price, students receiving no support.
-Those who cant have heavily subsidized tuition with grants and scholarships, which are largely state funded.

This is, in effect, the path that Vassar has taken in the private sphere. They increased the percentage of students who receive Pell grants to 23%, relying on the 1000 or so "full price" students and the spending of interest income from their endowment to make Vassar more accessible to talented but less well off students. They operate on a relative shoestring, eschewing perks like upgraded dorms and high end food service. So much of what makes college so expensive is the arms race to make college campuses all things to all people. The conditions that many of us remember from the 70's and 80's would drive away potential students in mass numbers. Austere doesn't sell.

(08-30-2017 08:41 AM)3xTribe Wrote:  

(08-30-2017 08:04 AM)nogretheogre Wrote:  Its easy to fix this if the state continues to refuse to directly fund the university at prior %.

Instead of giving a blank check to decrease the tuition dollar figure, VA can increase the $ they alot to need-based grants that are specific to each university's tuition costs.

This effectively makes a high cost in-state university a hidden tax on the wealthy.
-Those who can afford it pay full price, students receiving no support.
-Those who cant have heavily subsidized tuition with grants and scholarships, which are largely state funded.

This is, in effect, the path that Vassar has taken in the private sphere. They increased the percentage of students who receive Pell grants to 23%, relying on the 1000 or so "full price" students and the spending of interest income from their endowment to make Vassar more accessible to talented but less well off students. They operate on a relative shoestring, eschewing perks like upgraded dorms and high end food service. So much of what makes college so expensive is the arms race to make college campuses all things to all people. The conditions that many of us remember from the 70's and 80's would drive away potential students in mass numbers. Austere doesn't sell.

I see someone listens to Revisionist History .