A more-than-somewhat politically incorrect cartoon by John Churchill Chase from my collection of old Rice football programs; it's posted on Ricefootball.net.

Would you consider it (a) Unconventional, or (b) Offensive? Or neither? Or both?

Take it down? Leave it up? Wait for the first poison pen emails from Palo Alto to arrive?

I see absolutely no problem with it..A part of Rice history. I actually have an original

(08-20-2017 10:11 PM)owlatheart Wrote:  I see absolutely no problem with it..A part of Rice history. I actually have an original

People will go a long way sometimes to find a thing to complain about. I remember in the first year we did this, 1998, had pix of Rice students at the Texas game in Rice Stadium (which we should've won)and there in the background, barely visible, was a kid wearing a "Tuck Fexas" t-shirt. Next day I got a call from a puzzled Bobby May saying he'd gotten an irate phone call from some little old lady who told him she was canceling her donation to Rice because of an "obscene t-shirt" posted on the "Rice site" on the internet.

Early object lesson that anything we do is bound to be taken, at some point and in some way, to reflect back on the institution.

Maybe she was dyslexic.....

I fully understand. People are way too "touchy" about certain things nowdays

While I think we tend to be too politically correct at times, Stanford hasn't used the nickname Indians since 1972. If we were playing Florida State or another school which still has an Indian name as a mascot, I think it's an appropriate historical look at games from the past. But they don't - to me, it's now like saying Rice is racist because its original charter prohibited blacks from attending the school (a policy that stayed in place until the 1960's) .

Maybe there is another program cover from the past that makes fun of colors or trees instead?

And I fear this thread will eventually be have to be moved.

(08-20-2017 10:36 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  While I think we tend to be too politically correct at times, Stanford hasn't used the nickname Indians since 1972. If we were playing Florida State or another school which still has an Indian name as a mascot, I think it's an appropriate historical look at games from the past. But they don't - to me, it's now like saying Rice is racist because its original charter prohibited blacks from attending the school (a policy that stayed in place until the 1960's) .

Maybe there is another program cover from the past that makes fun of colors or trees instead?

And I fear this thread will eventually be have to be moved.

I have to admit I cringed a little looking at that comic, especially since I didn't even know the Stanford-Indians connection. I can honestly say that comic doesn't play well for people my age or under. It's something that might be better relegated to history especially if that is a reference that very few people today would even get. I'd rather set a forest fire

(08-20-2017 10:17 PM)Ricefootballnet Wrote:  People will go a long way sometimes to find a thing to complain about. I remember in the first year we did this, 1998, had pix of Rice students at the Texas game in Rice Stadium (which we should've won)and there in the background, barely visible, was a kid wearing a "Tuck Fexas" t-shirt. Next day I got a call from a puzzled Bobby May saying he'd gotten an irate phone call from some little old lady who told him she was canceling her donation to Rice because of an "obscene t-shirt" posted on the "Rice site" on the internet.

Maybe she was dyslexic.....

My take for what it is worth ... sounds like someone who would get offended over the smallest of things. If it wasn't those shirts, it might have been something else. It is amazing how some people just because they donate money they can dictate how the program is run. I can remember being at a game at Cameron Field early in the OG era, you could clearly hear him and maybe a few of the players and coaches letting loose with some rather colorful words and phrases. A lady near me started complaining about the OG and his language and she was going to call about it; I turned to her, pointed at the opposing dugout, and asked her "And you think that's not happening over there? Have you ever been in a baseball dugout or on a football sideline during a game?" She shut up. Folks need to lighten up.

Leave it up.

If I ran the site, I'd take it down. As you acknowledge, it's not the greatest image in the world. I understand its part of our history, but not everything from our history needs to be brought back. As a Cal fan, I know for a fact that there's plenty of anti-Cardinal material out there on the internet you could use (especially with their stupid mascot and band).

Then again, considering the demographics of this board, I honestly doubt you'd get much push back. Knock yourself out.

Leave it up. I was at that game. The program is in keeping with all the other covers of that era. When people get over being politically correct (these things run in cycles), this type of cover will be back in style. It will take a few years, though.

(08-20-2017 10:36 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  While I think we tend to be too politically correct at times, Stanford hasn't used the nickname Indians since 1972. If we were playing Florida State or another school which still has an Indian name as a mascot, I think it's an appropriate historical look at games from the past. But they don't - to me, it's now like saying Rice is racist because its original charter prohibited blacks from attending the school (a policy that stayed in place until the 1960's) .

Maybe there is another program cover from the past that makes fun of colors or trees instead?

And I fear this thread will eventually be have to be moved.

+1

I'll go ahead and take it down, but consider putting it back up shortly before game day. Probably won't. Thing is, even the remotest blowback to admin from a school that deems it necessary to change the name of its College Masters to a Newspeak word "magister" is not going to treated with, er, tolerance....I could be deemed persona non grata instanter.

Not the same country we're living in anymore, is it? (And some would add, "so much the better.")

For what it is worth people need to get over themselves. We used to train people how to "cope" when the bully said mean things. Now we think we can train the bully to not to be a bully. But, we fail to teach others how to handle bad things when they will inherantly happen. Rolling my eyes here folks. I can appreciate being considerate of others feelings.... some people need to learn to deal with it though. Leave it up or take it down. I am good with either. Lol... now that is how you cope.

Sent from my SM-G920V using CSNbbs mobile app

Wow it's already down and I barely saw it. I think the scalping reference in the cartoon would get the worst blowback. I do agree that we are too politically correct. Started with participation trophies. I'll bet there is even quilted toilet paper in the dorms now at Rice.We used leaves until that time with the poison ivy. That was the beginning of the end for Weiss college and the West Wing.

(08-21-2017 10:23 AM)utahowl Wrote:  Wow it's already down and I barely saw it. I think the scalping reference in the cartoon would get the worst blowback. I do agree that we are too politically correct. Started with participation trophies. I'll bet there is even quilted toilet paper in the dorms now at Rice.We used leaves until that time with the poison ivy. That was the beginning of the end for Weiss college and the West Wing.

To me, it was the scalping reference and the general caricature nature of the Indian that made me pause. I appreciate that this thread could be started and discuss whether or not it was a good thing to post or not, as it isn't clear cut. There is obviously a historical significance to the artwork, but that alone doesn't mean that, in modern times, it is in good taste.

On a side not, whenever someone brings up participation trophies as to why my generation is awful I just sit back and think, who in the heck gave us those participation trophies? It surely couldn't have been the Boomers or Gen X who were raising us, could it?

(08-21-2017 08:42 AM)Ricefootballnet Wrote:  Not the same country we're living in anymore, is it? (And some would add, "so much the better.")

Some people's good ol' days weren't great for everybody. Some of you guys went to that game; I wouldn't have been allowed to be a student at the time.

People not being able to take a joke or not accepting foul language is not the same as people pointing out that an image is racist.

If that makes me soft, I guess my middle name is Charmin.

(08-21-2017 11:15 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  On a side not, whenever someone brings up participation trophies as to why my generation is awful I just sit back and think, who in the heck gave us those participation trophies? It surely couldn't have been the Boomers or Gen X who were raising us, could it?

As many sociologists will tell you, Baby Boomers are indeed the source of many of our sociological problems.

(08-21-2017 11:18 AM)LAOwl Wrote:  

(08-21-2017 08:42 AM)Ricefootballnet Wrote:  Not the same country we're living in anymore, is it? (And some would add, "so much the better.")

Some people's good ol' days weren't great for everybody. Some of you guys went to that game; I wouldn't have been allowed to be a student at the time.

People not being able to take a joke or not accepting foul language is not the same as people pointing out that an image is racist.

If that makes me soft, I guess my middle name is Charmin.

Well said. What if it had been Rice not Stanford that had changed their nickname, would running that program cover for this game have been OK (or as a shot at PC)?

(08-21-2017 11:55 AM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  

(08-21-2017 11:18 AM)LAOwl Wrote:  

(08-21-2017 08:42 AM)Ricefootballnet Wrote:  Not the same country we're living in anymore, is it? (And some would add, "so much the better.")

Some people's good ol' days weren't great for everybody. Some of you guys went to that game; I wouldn't have been allowed to be a student at the time.

People not being able to take a joke or not accepting foul language is not the same as people pointing out that an image is racist.

If that makes me soft, I guess my middle name is Charmin.

Well said. What if it had been Rice not Stanford that had changed their nickname, would running that program cover for this game have been OK (or as a shot at PC)?

Teek, I think your short response here pretty much puts the capper on the issue. I find it difficult, if not impossible, to challenge (not that I'd necessarily care to).

Regarding the shot at PC, I do like to get in the occasional anti-PC dig, but in the case of Stanford, what aggravates me more about their adaptation of a TREE as combination mascot/logo is the absolute insipidity of the choice. Couldn't they have done better than that? Something that picks up on the Stanford family legacy, or a local zoological tie-in? I kind of like "Seals," like the old SF minor league baseball team I believe was named. Or if they had to have a tree, why not go with "Stanford Sequoias"? Hmm, the "Mighty Sequoias. Kind of like that as well....

This, from Quora Online, re the Stanford Tree....
-----------------------

The "Tree," which is a member of the Stanford Band, has been mistaken as the school’s mascot, but it is not....There was a move to reinstate the Indian as the school mascot in 1975. The debate was put to vote along with new suggestions: Robber Barons, Sequoias, Trees, Cardinals, Railroaders, Spikes, and Huns. None of the suggestions were accepted

In 1978, another group comprised of 225 varsity athletes from 18 teams, started a petition for the mascot to be the griffin – a mythological animal with the body and hind legs of a lion and head and wings of an eagle. The University moved two griffin statues from the Children’s Hospital to a grassy area between Encina Gym and Angel Field. The campaign for the Griffins failed.

***

There is no official mascot at Stanford University. The "Tree," which is a member of the Stanford Band, is representative of El Palo Alto, the Redwood tree which is the logo of the city of Palo Alto. Since Stanford University and Palo Alto are almost inextricably intertwined in interests and location, it is a natural outgrowth of this relationship. The tree still exists and stands by the railroad bridge beside San Francisquito Creek – it is the site where early explorers first camped when settling the area.

•Overview from Wiki - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sta... :


Stanford's team name is "The Cardinal," referring to the vivid red color (not the common song bird as at several other schools), and the University has never been able to come up with an official mascot. The Tree has been called one of America's most bizarre and controversial college mascots.[1] The tree regularly appears at the top of internet "worst mascot" lists.....