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Divisionless Football Conferences?
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esayem Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Divisionless Football Conferences?
I needed a cup of coffee before taking a stab at the ACC. I have made a pretty solid matrix with four permanent rivals, but I'll try one with three.

UNC- Duke, NCSU, UVA
Duke- UNC, Wake, GT
NCSU- UNC, Wake, Clemson
UVA- UNC, VT, Louis
Wake- Duke, NCSU, VT
GT- Duke, Clemson, FSU
Clemson- NCSU, GT, FSU
VT- UVA, Wake, BC
FSU- Miami, Clemson, GT
Miami- FSU, BC, Pitt
BC- Syracuse, Miami, VT
Syracuse- BC, Pitt, Louis
Pitt- Syracuse, Louis, Miami
Louis- Pitt, Syracuse, UVA

Match-ups I wanted to make happen:
UNC-Wake, Duke-NCSU, Clemson-Wake*, GT-Wake, VT-NCSU*, VT-Clemson

I had Miami-VT, but replaced it with Miami-Pitt for rivalry week reasons. Unless Pitt works something out with WVU (I don't see PSU happening) Miami will continue to be their opponent Thanksgiving weekend.

On the bright side for teams that don't have a yearly FLA opponent: the cycle still allows an away game in the Sunshine State every other year like it is now, with more variety. Games like UNC-FSU (one of your humble author's personal favorites), Miami-Syracuse, VT-FSU, Louisville-Miami will happen much more often.



*VT can easily be switched to play NCSU and Clemson with Wake if that's so desired by those parties.
01-31-2018 11:39 AM
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Post: #52
RE: Divisionless Football Conferences?
I've thought for some time that if the conference model economic system remains viable in the post-carriage fee world that larger conferences make better sense.

SEC functioned for a time with 13 and no divisions when the cap on regular season games was 12. The Southern at one point had 23 schools.

Large conferences can function and I think there is some merit to a system where the top two rated teams square off in a championship game and schools play a group of protected rivals and rotate around the rest of the bunch.

There limits on practical conference size at this point are artificial constraints. The auto bid system of the NCAA post-season events and the CFP where the revenue distribution model both G5 and P5 acts as a deterrent to larger sizes.

We functioned for quite a long time with the NCAA being little more than a rulemaking (playing rules, eligibility rules, competition governors, post-season regulation and administration) body and not an economic entity bundling content to generate and pass through revenue. There is no absolute mandate that post-season must be conducted as it is nor is there a final mandate that the NCAA needs to generate any revenue outside of dues collected from members. That role can change.

Likewise conferences used to regulate the members more. It was conferences not the NCAA that set scholarship limits until less than 50 years ago. The conference as economic middleman bundling and selling assets is even newer and does not have to continue if the membership no longer desires to hand that role to the conference.
01-31-2018 12:17 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Divisionless Football Conferences?
(01-31-2018 11:39 AM)esayem Wrote:  I needed a cup of coffee before taking a stab at the ACC. I have made a pretty solid matrix with four permanent rivals, but I'll try one with three.

UNC- Duke, NCSU, UVA
Duke- UNC, Wake, GT
NCSU- UNC, Wake, Clemson
UVA- UNC, VT, Louis
Wake- Duke, NCSU, VT
GT- Duke, Clemson, FSU
Clemson- NCSU, GT, FSU
VT- UVA, Wake, BC
FSU- Miami, Clemson, GT
Miami- FSU, BC, Pitt
BC- Syracuse, Miami, VT
Syracuse- BC, Pitt, Louis
Pitt- Syracuse, Louis, Miami
Louis- Pitt, Syracuse, UVA

Match-ups I wanted to make happen:
UNC-Wake, Duke-NCSU, Clemson-Wake*, GT-Wake, VT-NCSU*, VT-Clemson

I had Miami-VT, but replaced it with Miami-Pitt for rivalry week reasons. Unless Pitt works something out with WVU (I don't see PSU happening) Miami will continue to be their opponent Thanksgiving weekend.

On the bright side for teams that don't have a yearly FLA opponent: the cycle still allows an away game in the Sunshine State every other year like it is now, with more variety. Games like UNC-FSU (one of your humble author's personal favorites), Miami-Syracuse, VT-FSU, Louisville-Miami will happen much more often.



*VT can easily be switched to play NCSU and Clemson with Wake if that's so desired by those parties.

While GT is somewhat a rival or Duke, I would suggest that UVA is more so. Do this:
Duke - UNC, UVA, Wake
UNC - Duke, UVA, NC State
UVA - Duke, UNC, Va Tech

Here's the entire ACC w/ 3 rivals per team:

TEAM Rival #1 #2 #3
Boston College: Syracuse Wake Fst Miami
Clemson: Ga Tech Florida St NC State
Duke: Virginia UNC Wake Fst
Florida St: Miami Clemson Ga Tech
Ga Tech: Florida St Miami Clemson
Louisville: Pittsburgh Va Tech Syracuse
Miami: Florida St Ga Tech Boston Col
N Carolina: Virginia Duke NC State
NC State: UNC Wake Fst Clemson
Pittsburgh: Syracuse Va Tech Louisville
Syracuse: Boston Col Pittsburgh Louisville
Va Tech: Virginia Pittsburgh Louisville
Virginia: Va Tech UNC Duke
Wake Forest: Duke NC State Boston Col

This would save a TON of money on travel, and it would improve home attendance because fans could actually afford to travel to away games.

see also: http://accfootballrx.blogspot.com/2013/1...sions.html
01-31-2018 01:15 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Divisionless Football Conferences?
(01-31-2018 11:39 AM)esayem Wrote:  I needed a cup of coffee before taking a stab at the ACC. I have made a pretty solid matrix with four permanent rivals, but I'll try one with three.

UNC- Duke, NCSU, UVA
Duke- UNC, Wake, GT
NCSU- UNC, Wake, Clemson
UVA- UNC, VT, Louis
Wake- Duke, NCSU, VT
GT- Duke, Clemson, FSU
Clemson- NCSU, GT, FSU
VT- UVA, Wake, BC
FSU- Miami, Clemson, GT
Miami- FSU, BC, Pitt
BC- Syracuse, Miami, VT
Syracuse- BC, Pitt, Louis
Pitt- Syracuse, Louis, Miami
Louis- Pitt, Syracuse, UVA

Match-ups I wanted to make happen:
UNC-Wake, Duke-NCSU, Clemson-Wake*, GT-Wake, VT-NCSU*, VT-Clemson

I had Miami-VT, but replaced it with Miami-Pitt for rivalry week reasons. Unless Pitt works something out with WVU (I don't see PSU happening) Miami will continue to be their opponent Thanksgiving weekend.

On the bright side for teams that don't have a yearly FLA opponent: the cycle still allows an away game in the Sunshine State every other year like it is now, with more variety. Games like UNC-FSU (one of your humble author's personal favorites), Miami-Syracuse, VT-FSU, Louisville-Miami will happen much more often.



*VT can easily be switched to play NCSU and Clemson with Wake if that's so desired by those parties.

While GT is somewhat a rival or Duke, I would suggest that UVA is more so. Do this:
Duke - UNC, UVA, Wake
UNC - Duke, UVA, NC State
UVA - Duke, UNC, Va Tech

Here's the entire ACC w/ 3 rivals per team:

TEAM Rival #1 #2 #3
Boston College: Syracuse Wake Fst Miami
Clemson: Ga Tech Florida St NC State
Duke: Virginia UNC Wake Fst
Florida St: Miami Clemson Ga Tech
Ga Tech: Florida St Miami Clemson
Louisville: Pittsburgh Va Tech Syracuse
Miami: Florida St Ga Tech Boston Col
N Carolina: Virginia Duke NC State
NC State: UNC Wake Fst Clemson
Pittsburgh: Syracuse Va Tech Louisville
Syracuse: Boston Col Pittsburgh Louisville
Va Tech: Virginia Pittsburgh Louisville
Virginia: Va Tech UNC Duke
Wake Forest: Duke NC State Boston Col

This would save a TON of money on travel, and it would improve attendance because fans could actually afford to travel to away games.

see also: http://accfootballrx.blogspot.com/2013/1...sions.html
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2018 01:15 PM by Hokie Mark.)
01-31-2018 01:15 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Divisionless Football Conferences?
(01-31-2018 01:15 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(01-31-2018 11:39 AM)esayem Wrote:  I needed a cup of coffee before taking a stab at the ACC. I have made a pretty solid matrix with four permanent rivals, but I'll try one with three.

UNC- Duke, NCSU, UVA
Duke- UNC, Wake, GT
NCSU- UNC, Wake, Clemson
UVA- UNC, VT, Louis
Wake- Duke, NCSU, VT
GT- Duke, Clemson, FSU
Clemson- NCSU, GT, FSU
VT- UVA, Wake, BC
FSU- Miami, Clemson, GT
Miami- FSU, BC, Pitt
BC- Syracuse, Miami, VT
Syracuse- BC, Pitt, Louis
Pitt- Syracuse, Louis, Miami
Louis- Pitt, Syracuse, UVA

Match-ups I wanted to make happen:
UNC-Wake, Duke-NCSU, Clemson-Wake*, GT-Wake, VT-NCSU*, VT-Clemson

I had Miami-VT, but replaced it with Miami-Pitt for rivalry week reasons. Unless Pitt works something out with WVU (I don't see PSU happening) Miami will continue to be their opponent Thanksgiving weekend.

On the bright side for teams that don't have a yearly FLA opponent: the cycle still allows an away game in the Sunshine State every other year like it is now, with more variety. Games like UNC-FSU (one of your humble author's personal favorites), Miami-Syracuse, VT-FSU, Louisville-Miami will happen much more often.



*VT can easily be switched to play NCSU and Clemson with Wake if that's so desired by those parties.

While GT is somewhat a rival or Duke, I would suggest that UVA is more so. Do this:
Duke - UNC, UVA, Wake
UNC - Duke, UVA, NC State
UVA - Duke, UNC, Va Tech

Here's the entire ACC w/ 3 rivals per team:

TEAM Rival #1 #2 #3
Boston College: Syracuse Wake Fst Miami
Clemson: Ga Tech Florida St NC State
Duke: Virginia UNC Wake Fst
Florida St: Miami Clemson Ga Tech
Ga Tech: Florida St Miami Clemson
Louisville: Pittsburgh Va Tech Syracuse
Miami: Florida St Ga Tech Boston Col
N Carolina: Virginia Duke NC State
NC State: UNC Wake Fst Clemson
Pittsburgh: Syracuse Va Tech Louisville
Syracuse: Boston Col Pittsburgh Louisville
Va Tech: Virginia Pittsburgh Louisville
Virginia: Va Tech UNC Duke
Wake Forest: Duke NC State Boston Col

This would save a TON of money on travel, and it would improve attendance because fans could actually afford to travel to away games.

see also: http://accfootballrx.blogspot.com/2013/1...sions.html

No love for VT-Wake Forest? Isn't that your closest away game?
01-31-2018 01:26 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Divisionless Football Conferences?
(01-31-2018 01:15 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  see also: http://accfootballrx.blogspot.com/2013/1...sions.html

I like the matrix they set up. I modified the one in the OP to match it. It wasn't too much different. Here's who I had to swap:

Duke: Virginia for Georgia Tech
Georgia Tech: Miami-FL for Duke
Louisville: Virginia Tech for Virginia
Miami-FL: Georgia Tech for Virginia Tech
Virginia: Duke for Louisville
Virginia Tech: Louisville for Miami-FL
01-31-2018 05:39 PM
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10thMountain Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Divisionless Football Conferences?
I've long supported this idea for larger conferences.

I would go with a 9 game conference schedule that consisted of 4 permanent games and 5 rotating games.

That way in the average 4 year career you as a student r player would get to see everyone in your conference at your place and have the chance to road trip to everyone else's place at least once.

We don't lose traditional games like Florida vs Tennessee but get to see games like Florida vs Texas A&M more often
01-31-2018 06:30 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Divisionless Football Conferences?
FYI: In the OP, I added two extra protected opponents for each team in the ACC, Big Ten, and SEC in case the conferences were to go 5 protected matchups and a 9-game conference schedule. I feel pretty good about the extra pairings for the ACC and SEC, but the Big Ten seems a little messy to me. Suggestions are appreciated.
01-31-2018 06:44 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Divisionless Football Conferences?
(01-31-2018 06:44 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  FYI: In the OP, I added two extra protected opponents for each team in the ACC, Big Ten, and SEC in case the conferences were to go 5 protected matchups and a 9-game conference schedule. I feel pretty good about the extra pairings for the ACC and SEC, but the Big Ten seems a little messy to me. Suggestions are appreciated.

Update: I edited the OP again so that in each column, any particular team was only listed once. More substantially, I switched some matchups around to (hopefully) improve competitive balance. There are still some weird random matchups that resulted from an insufficient number of traditional rivalries. Let me know whatcha think.
02-07-2018 03:51 PM
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