All "sides" in this event are people for which I have no allegiance nor sympathy. All have been part of violent events in the past, and I have no patience for any of them and their ideology. However, the soiled panties from the media because President Trump did not cede any moral prerogative to the Leftist groups is typical overly emotional "outrage" flame-fanning. I am sick of it. I also agree with Trump that all parties involved had very bad actors, and all parties involved probably had people that just wanted to protest against statues being removed and people that wanted to counter-protest that viewpoint. While I completely disagree with the ideology of these groups, the right to assemble peacefully is protected by the Constitution, even if their message is completely rejected by me - principle is challenged most in such cases. In my opinion, once the group received the permit, the city should have planned a better police presence. And once it became known that Antifa and BLM were joining the party, the city should have prepared for an overwhelming police presence. Instead, from what I understand, the undersized security funneled many of the marchers right into an area of counter-protesters. Stupid.

So have at it Tom, as per your deleted thread. If that makes me whatever label you choose to stick on me, so be it. In a world where children are improperly taught that "everyone that plays is a winner", I suppose it is difficult for some to say "everyone involved sucks" when events like Charlottesville happen.

And for the record, I hope they QUICKLY convict, incarcerate, harvest the organs, and kill the driver of the car - in a very public way, to show that such behavior, regardless of your personal beliefs and allegiance, will not be tolerated in this society.

(08-16-2017 11:01 AM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  All "sides" in this event are people for which I have no allegiance nor sympathy. All have been part of violent events in the past, and I have no patience for any of them and their ideology. However, the soiled panties from the media because President Trump did not cede any moral prerogative to the Leftist groups is typical overly emotional "outrage" flame-fanning. I am sick of it. I also agree with Trump that all parties involved had very bad actors, and all parties involved probably had people that just wanted to protest against statues being removed and people that wanted to counter-protest that viewpoint. While I completely disagree with the ideology of these groups, the right to assemble peacefully is protected by the Constitution, even if their message is completely rejected by me - principle is challenged most in such cases. In my opinion, once the group received the permit, the city should have planned a better police presence. And once it became known that Antifa and BLM were joining the party, the city should have prepared for an overwhelming police presence. Instead, from what I understand, the undersized security funneled many of the marchers right into an area of counter-protesters. Stupid.

And for the record, I hope they QUICKLY convict, incarcerate, harvest the organs, and kill the driver of the car - in a very public way, to show that such behavior, regardless of your personal beliefs and allegiance, will not be tolerated in this society.

I just have one question. If you were one of those good people who just wanted the statues to stay and the people around you started chanting "Blood and Soil, No Jews would replace us". Would you stay with them?

(08-16-2017 11:05 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-16-2017 11:01 AM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  All "sides" in this event are people for which I have no allegiance nor sympathy. All have been part of violent events in the past, and I have no patience for any of them and their ideology. However, the soiled panties from the media because President Trump did not cede any moral prerogative to the Leftist groups is typical overly emotional "outrage" flame-fanning. I am sick of it. I also agree with Trump that all parties involved had very bad actors, and all parties involved probably had people that just wanted to protest against statues being removed and people that wanted to counter-protest that viewpoint. While I completely disagree with the ideology of these groups, the right to assemble peacefully is protected by the Constitution, even if their message is completely rejected by me - principle is challenged most in such cases. In my opinion, once the group received the permit, the city should have planned a better police presence. And once it became known that Antifa and BLM were joining the party, the city should have prepared for an overwhelming police presence. Instead, from what I understand, the undersized security funneled many of the marchers right into an area of counter-protesters. Stupid.

And for the record, I hope they QUICKLY convict, incarcerate, harvest the organs, and kill the driver of the car - in a very public way, to show that such behavior, regardless of your personal beliefs and allegiance, will not be tolerated in this society.

I just have one question. If you were one of those good people who just wanted the statues to stay and the people around you started chanting "Blood and Soil, No Jews would replace us". Would you stay with them?

I never said "good people", I just said they wanted to protest, not fight. I would never be in such a group in the first place, nor would I choose to expose my children to this, either. Personally, I think protests are silly and all have potential for violence. However, if I inadvertently found myself in such a situation, I would hope to be able to find a way to remove myself as expeditiously as possible, which I understand was not easy to do due to the confined nature of the Mall.

(08-16-2017 11:12 AM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  

(08-16-2017 11:05 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-16-2017 11:01 AM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  All "sides" in this event are people for which I have no allegiance nor sympathy. All have been part of violent events in the past, and I have no patience for any of them and their ideology. However, the soiled panties from the media because President Trump did not cede any moral prerogative to the Leftist groups is typical overly emotional "outrage" flame-fanning. I am sick of it. I also agree with Trump that all parties involved had very bad actors, and all parties involved probably had people that just wanted to protest against statues being removed and people that wanted to counter-protest that viewpoint. While I completely disagree with the ideology of these groups, the right to assemble peacefully is protected by the Constitution, even if their message is completely rejected by me - principle is challenged most in such cases. In my opinion, once the group received the permit, the city should have planned a better police presence. And once it became known that Antifa and BLM were joining the party, the city should have prepared for an overwhelming police presence. Instead, from what I understand, the undersized security funneled many of the marchers right into an area of counter-protesters. Stupid.

And for the record, I hope they QUICKLY convict, incarcerate, harvest the organs, and kill the driver of the car - in a very public way, to show that such behavior, regardless of your personal beliefs and allegiance, will not be tolerated in this society.

I just have one question. If you were one of those good people who just wanted the statues to stay and the people around you started chanting "Blood and Soil, No Jews would replace us". Would you stay with them?

I never said "good people", I just said they wanted to protest, not fight. I would never be in such a group in the first place, nor would I choose to expose my children to this, either. Personally, I think protests are silly and all have potential for violence. However, if I inadvertently found myself in such a situation, I would hope to be able to find a way to remove myself as expeditiously as possible, which I understand was not easy to do due to the confined nature of the Mall.

Exactly, that is why the President was wrong in saying that there was good people who just wanted to protest the removal of the statue. Because just like you, any good person would have left as soon as those people started chanting what they chanted.

Thank you for your honesty.

That is the point I tried to make. I have heard reports that when the poor behavior started, it was not easy to remove oneself from the area, thus my funneling comment. Who knows if that indeed was the case, but assuming it was, that had to be pretty scary if you went there to protest something and ended up that awful situation.

BTW, I like you much more when you ask good questions and are not trolling. Please do more of that.

I feel like the minute you see neo-nazis waving swastika flags, raising their arms, and carrying riot gear, you know you shouldn't stay. Not sure how you get "stuck in the area" when that should be blatant from afar. Nor do I understand how "bad behavior" begins when the very essence of the protest is so abhorrent. Strictly speaking on the anti-statue side.

If you were a counter protester and got caught up in antifa vs. Nazi violence, I have more sympathy for you. If I were to see someone shouting "NAZI BAD" I wouldn't think to turn and run. Once the push-pull between the groups started I can see being trapped within the mob mentality and/or truly physically trapped.

The KKK, Neo-Nazis, and White Supremacists that were in Charlottesville were scum.

Antifa and BLM are scum.

HBO sent in one of the most liberal film/documentary crews imaginable to politicize this tragedy.

"Never let a crisis to go waste."

(08-16-2017 11:20 AM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  That is the point I tried to make. I have heard reports that when the poor behavior started, it was not easy to remove oneself from the area, thus my funneling comment. Who knows if that indeed was the case, but assuming it was, that had to be pretty scary if you went there to protest something and ended up that awful situation.

BTW, I like you much more when you ask good questions and are not trolling. Please do more of that.

But you and I are talking about different days. The President was talking about Friday. Trump said there were good people protesting on Friday. You and I have established that it isn't true.

Saturday is a different story. It is my understanding that law enforcement quickly cancelled the rally when they saw that they couldn't protect the Neo Nazis. If you watch the Vice video, you see when they were told it's over and get out. That's when all the violence started.

(08-16-2017 11:05 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-16-2017 11:01 AM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  All "sides" in this event are people for which I have no allegiance nor sympathy. All have been part of violent events in the past, and I have no patience for any of them and their ideology. However, the soiled panties from the media because President Trump did not cede any moral prerogative to the Leftist groups is typical overly emotional "outrage" flame-fanning. I am sick of it. I also agree with Trump that all parties involved had very bad actors, and all parties involved probably had people that just wanted to protest against statues being removed and people that wanted to counter-protest that viewpoint. While I completely disagree with the ideology of these groups, the right to assemble peacefully is protected by the Constitution, even if their message is completely rejected by me - principle is challenged most in such cases. In my opinion, once the group received the permit, the city should have planned a better police presence. And once it became known that Antifa and BLM were joining the party, the city should have prepared for an overwhelming police presence. Instead, from what I understand, the undersized security funneled many of the marchers right into an area of counter-protesters. Stupid.

And for the record, I hope they QUICKLY convict, incarcerate, harvest the organs, and kill the driver of the car - in a very public way, to show that such behavior, regardless of your personal beliefs and allegiance, will not be tolerated in this society.

I just have one question. If you were one of those good people who just wanted the statues to stay and the people around you started chanting "Blood and Soil, No Jews would replace us". Would you stay with them?

Why do you stay with your groups that 'want dead cops now' and 'fried like bacon'?

(08-16-2017 11:25 AM)hoopfan Wrote:  

(08-16-2017 11:05 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-16-2017 11:01 AM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  All "sides" in this event are people for which I have no allegiance nor sympathy. All have been part of violent events in the past, and I have no patience for any of them and their ideology. However, the soiled panties from the media because President Trump did not cede any moral prerogative to the Leftist groups is typical overly emotional "outrage" flame-fanning. I am sick of it. I also agree with Trump that all parties involved had very bad actors, and all parties involved probably had people that just wanted to protest against statues being removed and people that wanted to counter-protest that viewpoint. While I completely disagree with the ideology of these groups, the right to assemble peacefully is protected by the Constitution, even if their message is completely rejected by me - principle is challenged most in such cases. In my opinion, once the group received the permit, the city should have planned a better police presence. And once it became known that Antifa and BLM were joining the party, the city should have prepared for an overwhelming police presence. Instead, from what I understand, the undersized security funneled many of the marchers right into an area of counter-protesters. Stupid.

And for the record, I hope they QUICKLY convict, incarcerate, harvest the organs, and kill the driver of the car - in a very public way, to show that such behavior, regardless of your personal beliefs and allegiance, will not be tolerated in this society.

I just have one question. If you were one of those good people who just wanted the statues to stay and the people around you started chanting "Blood and Soil, No Jews would replace us". Would you stay with them?

Why do you stay with your groups that 'want dead cops now' and 'fried like bacon'?

Why are you asking a question you know he's going to lie about?

(08-16-2017 11:23 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  HBO sent in one of the most liberal film/documentary crews imaginable to politicize this tragedy.

How does one politicize a political rally? Isn't it already the essence of politicking? The fact that nazis and white nationalists exist is indeed, tragic. I fail to see though, why you would not want a light cast upon the roaches. How else do you make them scatter?

I'll only respond to posters that have enough honor and integrity to honor bets made. Despite my challenges with Fitbud, I recognize him as a board member that can and should fully participate on this forum. You, sir, do not deserve similar consideration.

(08-16-2017 11:26 AM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  I'll only respond to posters that have enough honor and integrity to honor bets made. Despite my challenges with Fitbud, I recognize him as a board member that can and should fully participate on this forum. You, sir, do not deserve similar consideration.

(08-16-2017 11:25 AM)hoopfan Wrote:  

(08-16-2017 11:05 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-16-2017 11:01 AM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  All "sides" in this event are people for which I have no allegiance nor sympathy. All have been part of violent events in the past, and I have no patience for any of them and their ideology. However, the soiled panties from the media because President Trump did not cede any moral prerogative to the Leftist groups is typical overly emotional "outrage" flame-fanning. I am sick of it. I also agree with Trump that all parties involved had very bad actors, and all parties involved probably had people that just wanted to protest against statues being removed and people that wanted to counter-protest that viewpoint. While I completely disagree with the ideology of these groups, the right to assemble peacefully is protected by the Constitution, even if their message is completely rejected by me - principle is challenged most in such cases. In my opinion, once the group received the permit, the city should have planned a better police presence. And once it became known that Antifa and BLM were joining the party, the city should have prepared for an overwhelming police presence. Instead, from what I understand, the undersized security funneled many of the marchers right into an area of counter-protesters. Stupid.

And for the record, I hope they QUICKLY convict, incarcerate, harvest the organs, and kill the driver of the car - in a very public way, to show that such behavior, regardless of your personal beliefs and allegiance, will not be tolerated in this society.

I just have one question. If you were one of those good people who just wanted the statues to stay and the people around you started chanting "Blood and Soil, No Jews would replace us". Would you stay with them?

Why do you stay with your groups that 'want dead cops now' and 'fried like bacon'?

First of all, I do not belong to any group and have never marched with anyone in protest of anything.

Second of all, if I was marching with a group, I would quickly leave if any notion of killing anyone was being chanted.

As I have said it before. There are bad people in every group. The deciding factor is what the group stands for.

White Nationalist groups stand for eradicating Jews, Blacks and other races from this country.

There is no moral equivalence between them and civil rights groups.

Sorry if it's a dumb question, but what does "blood and soil" even mean?

(08-16-2017 11:33 AM)Gator Wrote:  Sorry if it's a dumb question, but what does "blood and soil" even mean?

I think it means they are willing to kill to take back territory.

(08-16-2017 11:33 AM)Gator Wrote:  Sorry if it's a dumb question, but what does "blood and soil" even mean?

fighting in battle until you bleed and gain territory.

(08-16-2017 11:33 AM)Gator Wrote:  Sorry if it's a dumb question, but what does "blood and soil" even mean?

Here's a breakdown on the chant;
https://qz.com/1052725/the-definition-of...ttesville/

(08-16-2017 11:23 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  HBO sent in one of the most liberal film/documentary crews imaginable to politicize this tragedy.

"Never let a crisis to go waste."

The decision for them to cover the event occurred long before it was a tragedy.

I subscribed to Vice a long time ago during their Ukraine coverage (which was great), so I still see their videos in my subscriptions from time to time. They have gone full-SJW since selling out to HBO, so this video could have been A LOT worse. I think they did well at setting their bias aside and just reporting.

(08-16-2017 06:33 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I'm glad I watched it. We are in a spiral of the lowest common denominator. Its such a sad display for the human spirit. We are so much better than this as a country.

Lol. You just now figuring this out. Went to warp speed in the last 8-15 years.