(08-15-2017 10:51 AM)ArmyBlazer Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 10:44 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 10:39 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 10:37 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  " I feared for my life" The Zimmerman Effect"

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Fearing for one's life is a completely legitimate reason to defend oneself right up to killing another person.

So if I see white supremist walking down my street in paramilitary garb sticks touches and shields, does that qualify?

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You know exactly the point he was trying to make.

In Zimmermans case, yes. But let's not forget what he did to put himself in that position. At what point is he responsible for his actions?

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(08-15-2017 10:54 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 10:51 AM)ArmyBlazer Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 10:44 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 10:39 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 10:37 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  " I feared for my life" The Zimmerman Effect"

Sent from my SM-T357T using CSNbbs mobile app

Fearing for one's life is a completely legitimate reason to defend oneself right up to killing another person.

So if I see white supremist walking down my street in paramilitary garb sticks touches and shields, does that qualify?

Sent from my SM-T357T using CSNbbs mobile app

You know exactly the point he was trying to make.

In Zimmermans case, yes. But let's not forget what he did to put himself in that position. At what point is he responsible for his actions?

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Yea, that's all irrelevant to the general point about the law related to SD that he was making. Good effort, though.

(08-15-2017 10:54 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 10:51 AM)ArmyBlazer Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 10:44 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 10:39 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 10:37 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  " I feared for my life" The Zimmerman Effect"

Sent from my SM-T357T using CSNbbs mobile app

Fearing for one's life is a completely legitimate reason to defend oneself right up to killing another person.

So if I see white supremist walking down my street in paramilitary garb sticks touches and shields, does that qualify?

Sent from my SM-T357T using CSNbbs mobile app

You know exactly the point he was trying to make.

In Zimmermans case, yes. But let's not forget what he did to put himself in that position. At what point is he responsible for his actions?

Sent from my SM-T357T using CSNbbs mobile app

There is an answer for that.

I'll let Army detail it since he just covered 10,000 pages of it.

(08-15-2017 10:17 AM)450bench Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 10:09 AM)hburg Wrote:  So it begs the question, if there was a stand down order for police to not intervene that ultimately led to the death of one person and injuring 19 others, then why the stand down order?

Adding to that thought, if there was indeed a stand down order given, there isn't enough money in that state to fund the lawsuits that will filed.

gaining on the crux.....

(08-15-2017 10:59 AM)ArmyBlazer Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 10:54 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 10:51 AM)ArmyBlazer Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 10:44 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 10:39 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Fearing for one's life is a completely legitimate reason to defend oneself right up to killing another person.

So if I see white supremist walking down my street in paramilitary garb sticks touches and shields, does that qualify?

Sent from my SM-T357T using CSNbbs mobile app

You know exactly the point he was trying to make.

In Zimmermans case, yes. But let's not forget what he did to put himself in that position. At what point is he responsible for his actions?

Sent from my SM-T357T using CSNbbs mobile app

Yea, that's all irrelevant to the general point about the law related to SD that he was making. Good effort, though.

...to all the above but fit...ol' boy has pent up frustration due to lack of....

(08-15-2017 10:59 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 10:54 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 10:51 AM)ArmyBlazer Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 10:44 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 10:39 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Fearing for one's life is a completely legitimate reason to defend oneself right up to killing another person.

So if I see white supremist walking down my street in paramilitary garb sticks touches and shields, does that qualify?

Sent from my SM-T357T using CSNbbs mobile app

You know exactly the point he was trying to make.

In Zimmermans case, yes. But let's not forget what he did to put himself in that position. At what point is he responsible for his actions?

Sent from my SM-T357T using CSNbbs mobile app

There is an answer for that.

I'll let Army detail it since he just covered 10,000 pages of it.

Thanks for the reminder that I have to wait for another 6 damn weeks to see what the bar gods think of me.

Sorry for the derail. Back to our regularly scheduled outrage...

(08-15-2017 10:09 AM)hburg Wrote:  So it begs the question, if there was a stand down order for police to not intervene that ultimately led to the death of one person and injuring 19 others, then why the stand down order?

Because it was politically expedient for the Mayor of Charlottesville, a devout leftist, and the Governor of Virginia, a Clintonite, for violence to happen. I mean look at the leftist cockroaches it brought out of the woodwork just on this board.

(08-15-2017 11:14 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 10:09 AM)hburg Wrote:  So it begs the question, if there was a stand down order for police to not intervene that ultimately led to the death of one person and injuring 19 others, then why the stand down order?

Because it was politically expedient for the Mayor of Charlottesville, a devout leftist, and the Governor of Virginia, a Clintonite, for violence to happen. I mean look at the leftist cockroaches it brought out of the woodwork just on this board.

So now it's the Mayors fault? Amazing.

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(08-15-2017 12:49 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 11:14 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 10:09 AM)hburg Wrote:  So it begs the question, if there was a stand down order for police to not intervene that ultimately led to the death of one person and injuring 19 others, then why the stand down order?

Because it was politically expedient for the Mayor of Charlottesville, a devout leftist, and the Governor of Virginia, a Clintonite, for violence to happen. I mean look at the leftist cockroaches it brought out of the woodwork just on this board.

So now it's the Mayors fault? Amazing.

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Apparently the Nazis and Klan and Alt Right must be defended at all costs.

(08-15-2017 12:49 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 11:14 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 10:09 AM)hburg Wrote:  So it begs the question, if there was a stand down order for police to not intervene that ultimately led to the death of one person and injuring 19 others, then why the stand down order?

Because it was politically expedient for the Mayor of Charlottesville, a devout leftist, and the Governor of Virginia, a Clintonite, for violence to happen. I mean look at the leftist cockroaches it brought out of the woodwork just on this board.

So now it's the Mayors fault? Amazing.

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(08-15-2017 12:53 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Apparently the Nazis and Klan and Alt Right must be defended at all costs.

I appreciate you two proving my point.

So, here's a throng of people marching down the street; tensions high and not a cop in sight. Wow. Things that make you go hmm.
https://www.pscp.tv/w/1yNGamRYYAgGj

(08-15-2017 09:41 AM)hburg Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 09:34 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  The Nazis had more firepower than the police. City officials tried to move the protest to a venue that was easier to patrol. They were ordered, at the last minute, to move that event back to the city center.

I think the easiest thing to do would have been to haul down the statue on Thursday, seeing as its already been decided that its coming down.

This doesn't sound like the police had less firepower than the rally goers.

Quote: https://acluva.org/20108/aclu-of-virgini...ttesville/
"The policing on Saturday was not effective in preventing violence. I was there and brought concerns directly to the secretary of public safety and the head of the Virginia State Police about the way that the barricades in the park limiting access by the arriving demonstrators and the lack of any physical separation of the protesters and counter-protesters on the street were contributing to the potential of violence. They did not respond. In fact, law enforcement was standing passively by, seeming to be waiting for violence to take place, so that they would have grounds to declare an emergency, declare an ‘unlawful assembly’ and clear the area."

The above is from ACLU of Virginia

This is disturbing

(08-15-2017 02:16 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 09:41 AM)hburg Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 09:34 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  The Nazis had more firepower than the police. City officials tried to move the protest to a venue that was easier to patrol. They were ordered, at the last minute, to move that event back to the city center.

I think the easiest thing to do would have been to haul down the statue on Thursday, seeing as its already been decided that its coming down.

This doesn't sound like the police had less firepower than the rally goers.

Quote: https://acluva.org/20108/aclu-of-virgini...ttesville/
"The policing on Saturday was not effective in preventing violence. I was there and brought concerns directly to the secretary of public safety and the head of the Virginia State Police about the way that the barricades in the park limiting access by the arriving demonstrators and the lack of any physical separation of the protesters and counter-protesters on the street were contributing to the potential of violence. They did not respond. In fact, law enforcement was standing passively by, seeming to be waiting for violence to take place, so that they would have grounds to declare an emergency, declare an ‘unlawful assembly’ and clear the area."

The above is from ACLU of Virginia

This is disturbing

which begs the next scene.....when Kent St???

gonna say it one more time.....mob rules is why the constitution....

I can only rephrase soooooooo many ways.....

our founders actually had a clue developing the best control mechanism to date....

people are simply oblivious to the macro.....all they understand is thumbtappin' and hobgobblins....

fix that one.....

fk me for bringing a child into this clusterfuckings.....

(08-15-2017 02:04 PM)HCJag Wrote:  So, here's a throng of people marching down the street; tensions high and not a cop in sight. Wow. Things that make you go hmm.
https://www.pscp.tv/w/1yNGamRYYAgGj

Exactly. I know some are calling this a false flag event and it could be, I guess. But there seems to be a deliberate stand down so that violence would occur.

(08-15-2017 12:53 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 12:49 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 11:14 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 10:09 AM)hburg Wrote:  So it begs the question, if there was a stand down order for police to not intervene that ultimately led to the death of one person and injuring 19 others, then why the stand down order?

Because it was politically expedient for the Mayor of Charlottesville, a devout leftist, and the Governor of Virginia, a Clintonite, for violence to happen. I mean look at the leftist cockroaches it brought out of the woodwork just on this board.

So now it's the Mayors fault? Amazing.

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Apparently the Nazis and Klan and Alt Right must be defended at all costs.

Yup. Trump backtracked real quick.

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(08-15-2017 09:44 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Either way, the issue isn't that the police in C'ville weren't prepared, its that Neo Nazis and Klansmen came there to forment hate and violence. The Klan and the Alt Right are not victims here.


Apparently the Nazis and Klan and Alt Right must be defended at all costs.

So you just want to do away with the first amendment, Tom? Hell, we're taking down monuments, let's just drop the amendments while we're at it... now that we know what you want.

The Neo-Nazis and the Klan are two of the most heinous groups out there.. but the US Constitution doesn't say "Freedom of assembly, unless you have ideas that I disagree with"...

As for the original question:

Do I believe the police were told to stand down? Yes, I do.. but I think that whoever gave the order was NOT expecting a full-blown riot. I think they were expecting some ugly shouting matches and that would be it.

(08-16-2017 08:50 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 09:44 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Either way, the issue isn't that the police in C'ville weren't prepared, its that Neo Nazis and Klansmen came there to forment hate and violence. The Klan and the Alt Right are not victims here.


Apparently the Nazis and Klan and Alt Right must be defended at all costs.

So you just want to do away with the first amendment, Tom? Hell, we're taking down monuments, let's just drop the amendments while we're at it... now that we know what you want.

The Neo-Nazis and the Klan are two of the most heinous groups out there.. but the US Constitution doesn't say "Freedom of assembly, unless you have ideas that I disagree with"...

As for the original question:

Do I believe the police were told to stand down? Yes, I do.. but I think that whoever gave the order was NOT expecting a full-blown riot. I think they were expecting some ugly shouting matches and that would be it.

they have to love you in StL.....

is easily the best of the pragmatic(als) based on my trivial travails....(maybe, I still have that bias embedded in me hamster carriage )