(08-10-2017 08:27 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  It could help, indirectly, because P5 do want to see fan support in terms of in the stands and on TV, and by creating greater interest and excitement in the program, an OCS could help with that.

You're right. I don't want to be a wet blanket on USF's OCS aspirations. They should build one, regardless.

(08-10-2017 08:56 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(08-10-2017 08:27 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  It could help, indirectly, because P5 do want to see fan support in terms of in the stands and on TV, and by creating greater interest and excitement in the program, an OCS could help with that.

You're right. I don't want to be a wet blanket on USF's OCS aspirations. They should build one, regardless.

I think we should too, but RJS does give us the luxury to plan well and do it right rather than hurrying through a rush job. I favor moving forward and getting it done, but will all deliberate speed.

What do you think about CO St's stadium?

Both UCF and USF should/will be prime candidates (long-term) for P5 expansion. With the talent-rich state of Florida, growing athletic facilities (and athletic programs), and large enrollments (which will only turn into large alumni bases), I believe that the Big 12 - much like not plucking Louisville/Cincinnati/West Virginia combo - will very much be regretting not snatching the UCF/USF combo last year.

Congrats to our former Big East brother in USF. USF Football was always a potential big-time program. Consistency was just not able to be sustained. While basketball never quite got off the ground under Heath (I just saw he got hired as the Magic's G-League HC, BTW), I'm glad to see them with a bright future under Strong and Gregory.

Disagree.

Look at California and Texas. Both very large population states, like Florida, and yet both only have programs that were in traditional college football power conferences currently in the P5. Florida already has UF, FSU, and Miami in the P5.

Also, please don't conflate what I just said with me saying that USF and UCF don't deserve to be in the P5. I don't think that, at all. I just think the circumstance will ultimately prevent it.

High school football numbers are growing in Florida, whereas in California they are actually declining. There is a huge demand of football in Florida. While California has USC, UCLA, Stanford and California as P5 members, the state of Florida - which again has a higher interest and participation in football - only has three: UF, FSU and Miami. The state is absolutely big enough to warrant additional power programs, not to mention for conferences like the Big 12 that need a bigger recruiting area and base to draw players from.

Just my observation.

The Big 12 has always been Texas centric, for recruiting, with the obvious exception of WV. So long as the conf stays alive, I don't think that is going to change.

The two realistic P confs that can add USF/UCF are the SEC and ACC. I don't think either will be interested, and both also already have Florida schools that likely would not want additional in-state competition.

(08-10-2017 10:48 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  The Big 12 has always been Texas centric, for recruiting, with the obvious exception of WV. So long as the conf stays alive, I don't think that is going to change.

The two realistic P confs that can add USF/UCF are the SEC and ACC. I don't think either will be interested, and both also already have Florida schools that likely would not want additional in-state competition.

If that's the case, though, the two schools should be regularly vying for the American Conf Championship, and barring a Cinderella year somewhere else, the access bowl slot. There's a lot of talent in Florida. And USF picks up a Win since they don't play Rutgers anymore! :-)

Personally, I think UCF and USF both fit in nicely in a post-Texas & OU Big 12. If the Big 12 loses 4 schools that a huge hit and they are going to desperate for markets and big upsides. Orlando and Tampa bring that and I particularly like them paired with Cincinnati and Houston as the other 2 programs. Bringing in UCF and USF gives everyone access to Florida talent and being able to tap into that talent will be necessary if the Big 12 ever hopes to hang on to it's P5 status (I think we can all agree that post-Texas & Oklahoma this league will most definitely be 5th of the P5s)

If Pre-1996 Texas could support 8 major college football programs then modern Florida could support 5. Look at North Carolina---much smaller population but somehow the 4 ACC schools and ECU all survive.

If Big 12 loses Texas, OU, Okla St, and KU, and replaced with USF, UCF, Cincy, and Houston (which would be a good move, in my opinion), I really doubt that it will continue to receive P conf payouts from the CFP and maintain the Sugar Bowl tie. It will become to the AAC, what the AAC is to the CUSA, and what the CUSA is to the Sun Belt.

(08-10-2017 01:00 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  If Big 12 loses Texas, OU, Okla St, and KU, and replaced with USF, UCF, Cincy, and Houston (which would be a good move, in my opinion), I really doubt that it will continue to receive P conf payouts from the CFP and maintain the Sugar Bowl tie. It will become to the AAC, what the AAC is to the CUSA, and what the CUSA is to the Sun Belt.

that can happen only after 2025..... if there is any movement before then.......... they keep the P designation until next renegotiation. AAC's first year was a BCS conference.

(08-10-2017 08:59 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-10-2017 08:56 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(08-10-2017 08:27 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  It could help, indirectly, because P5 do want to see fan support in terms of in the stands and on TV, and by creating greater interest and excitement in the program, an OCS could help with that.

You're right. I don't want to be a wet blanket on USF's OCS aspirations. They should build one, regardless.

I think we should too, but RJS does give us the luxury to plan well and do it right rather than hurrying through a rush job. I favor moving forward and getting it done, but will all deliberate speed.

unless you suddenly get a P5 invite and win the lottery........ your line of thinking will never get the stadium off the ground. its like an 18 year old kid with an entry level job saving up for a ferrari as his first car....... not gonna happen

build it in phases and get the dirt moving already.

USF should try to tie in with the MLS wannabes in St Pete. That expansion bid seems to be floundering with an expanded bayfront USL stadium. Build an MLS stadium first, 20k, and then enlarge it later.

(08-10-2017 01:00 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  If Big 12 loses Texas, OU, Okla St, and KU, and replaced with USF, UCF, Cincy, and Houston (which would be a good move, in my opinion), I really doubt that it will continue to receive P conf payouts from the CFP and maintain the Sugar Bowl tie. It will become to the AAC, what the AAC is to the CUSA, and what the CUSA is to the Sun Belt.

I agree with with you completely. I think they'd be like the post-raid Big East for a while--technically still in the club but not equal members. The tv dollars will be a lot smaller and I'm guessing their role in the NY6 will be one where they get bounced around like the G5.

(08-10-2017 04:52 PM)NoDak Wrote:  USF should try to tie in with the MLS wannabes in St Pete. That expansion bid seems to be floundering with an expanded bayfront USL stadium. Build an MLS stadium first, 20k, and then enlarge it later.

It's not a bad idea but I've seen the plans for that stadium and there simply is not room to being that stadium up to 40,000. It would also still be off campus.

And unfortunately for the MLS bid playing in a stadium owned by a local college is simply a no go. That's part of what is keeping Cincinnati's bid from being approved.

(08-10-2017 01:00 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  If Big 12 loses Texas, OU, Okla St, and KU, and replaced with USF, UCF, Cincy, and Houston (which would be a good move, in my opinion), I really doubt that it will continue to receive P conf payouts from the CFP and maintain the Sugar Bowl tie. It will become to the AAC, what the AAC is to the CUSA, and what the CUSA is to the Sun Belt.

If the Big XII loses 4 schools, they will add more than 4 to re-build their conference.

So in your example, Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Kansas are gone.

That's a HUGE hit to the conference. And they wouldn't be able to generate the revenues that they are used to now. But they could survive, and make a nice check -- nicer than any other non P5 conference out there, certainly.


You add schools with potential, and/or history, and from different states to enlist political backing, and hope like hell you can still produce.

So add at least 6 ... say UCF, USF, Cincy, Houston, Boise State and BYU.

That brings them to 12 schools, and adds Florida, Ohio, Idaho and Utah to the states already represented by the conference. Which is 8 more senators should political might be needed to assist in keeping football clout.

But the 4 schools they lost, have now made other P5 conferences bigger than 14. So ... you could even add 2 more schools, bringing the Big XII to 14 total, and add up to 4 more senators in the political possee you may need to assemble. Say Memphis, and Colorado State. Or whoever ...

Regardless ...

If the Big XII loses the 4 schools you outlined, they will be doing more than simply replacing those 4 in an attempt to maintain their status.

(08-10-2017 05:03 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(08-10-2017 04:52 PM)NoDak Wrote:  USF should try to tie in with the MLS wannabes in St Pete. That expansion bid seems to be floundering with an expanded bayfront USL stadium. Build an MLS stadium first, 20k, and then enlarge it later.

It's not a bad idea but I've seen the plans for that stadium and there simply is not room to being that stadium up to 40,000. It would also still be off campus.

And unfortunately for the MLS bid playing in a stadium owned by a local college is simply a no go. That's part of what is keeping Cincinnati's bid from being approved.

No, use the USF locale for the MLS stadium, and theN later enlarge it.

The four frontrunner for new MLS teams seem to be Cincy, Detroit, Nashville, and Sacramento. Cincy doesn't have stadium plans yet, but Nippert is still in the running, even though it's on campus and doesn't have the best access. MLS simply loves the Cincy metro's allegiance and attendance for their USL team at Nippert.

(08-10-2017 08:43 AM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  

(08-10-2017 07:12 AM)Love and Honor Wrote:  Good for USF, they have a lot of potential in the college football world. They sorta have the problem of UCF in how big they are yet they have the stigma of being a small directional school in the eyes of non-sports fans just because of the name and how their overall prestige pales in comparison to UF and FSU, but they look to be in a good position to broaden their appeal this year with Strong. And I hope the AAC doesn't play any weeknight games after that stadium opens because getting to the stadium (if it's in either proposed location) from I-275 N will be an absolute nightmare.

Time to build that Tampa Bay monorail.

Eh, I don't want to pay for it, I was smart and chose to live and work in places that allow me to reverse commute.

(08-10-2017 08:32 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  

(08-10-2017 08:43 AM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  

(08-10-2017 07:12 AM)Love and Honor Wrote:  Good for USF, they have a lot of potential in the college football world. They sorta have the problem of UCF in how big they are yet they have the stigma of being a small directional school in the eyes of non-sports fans just because of the name and how their overall prestige pales in comparison to UF and FSU, but they look to be in a good position to broaden their appeal this year with Strong. And I hope the AAC doesn't play any weeknight games after that stadium opens because getting to the stadium (if it's in either proposed location) from I-275 N will be an absolute nightmare.

Time to build that Tampa Bay monorail.

Eh, I don't want to pay for it, I was smart and chose to live and work in places that allow me to reverse commute.

Is the sight they are looking at next to the Shriners Children's Hosptial?

(08-10-2017 05:33 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(08-10-2017 05:03 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(08-10-2017 04:52 PM)NoDak Wrote:  USF should try to tie in with the MLS wannabes in St Pete. That expansion bid seems to be floundering with an expanded bayfront USL stadium. Build an MLS stadium first, 20k, and then enlarge it later.

It's not a bad idea but I've seen the plans for that stadium and there simply is not room to being that stadium up to 40,000. It would also still be off campus.

And unfortunately for the MLS bid playing in a stadium owned by a local college is simply a no go. That's part of what is keeping Cincinnati's bid from being approved.

No, use the USF locale for the MLS stadium, and theN later enlarge it.

The four frontrunner for new MLS teams seem to be Cincy, Detroit, Nashville, and Sacramento. Cincy doesn't have stadium plans yet, but Nippert is still in the running, even though it's on campus and doesn't have the best access. MLS simply loves the Cincy metro's allegiance and attendance for their USL team at Nippert.

USF needs to stay away from the Rowdies.

Rowdies owner Bill Edwards may still have his money seized by the Feds as a result of an ongoing lawsuit over his former mortgage company. Wells Fargo settled their part on Tuesday so he's the last defendant.

http://www.tbo.com/news/business/realest...08/2332952