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OT: UCLA QB says "football and academics don't go together"
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ThreeifbyLightning Online
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Post: #21
RE: OT: UCLA QB says "football and academics don't go together"
(08-10-2017 09:59 AM)LaTechBanjo Wrote:  
(08-09-2017 08:20 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(08-08-2017 03:09 PM)LaTechBanjo Wrote:  NFL needs to put together a true minor league.
The integrity of "college football" is not high on the NFL's list of priorities. Hell, the integrity of the NFL itself isn't high on the NFL's list, either. It's all about the $$$ and on that front the NFL is doing just fine.

From a player-development standpoint, the upper-level factories like Alabama/Florida State/etc. serve the same function that a minor league would so, plus the NFL doesn't have to deal with the drama every time a college player gets busted for drugs/robbery/rape/you-name-it. The existing system is virtually perfect from the NFL's point of view, and I doubt they will ever do anything to change it.

Agreed. This is the problem.

The NCAA would be wise to aid in developing something so as to deflect the "pay the players" debate.

I do not agree with this sentiment. While I do think there is something to the mindset that they are basically getting free development and it is easier to not have to take on the burden of a minor league system, they will eventually do it and then wonder why they didn't do it sooner.

Just about every MLB team would tell you they would rather have kids come into their system right out of high school rather than go to college. There are a number of reasons but the primary ones are that 1) everybody gets a different types and levels of instruction otherwise and 2) they miss three to five years of normalizing those kids within their culture and how they do things.

And baseball requires much less acclimation to the pro-game than does football. A minor league football system would be far more beneficial to the NFL than it is for baseball. The only reason the minor league system in baseball works is because it serves as a place to keep their future major leaguers sharp. How many times have you heard a club say they want to keep a player in the minors so that he gets plenty of at-bats? Most MLB teams know who is going to be in the big leagues as soon as they are drafted. It's a rare success story when the 37th round pick becomes an impact major leaguer. As a matter of fact, when I worked for the Mets Player Development and Scouting the Director told me only one to three guys that came to spring training were going to make the bigs but that they needed eight other guys to play with.

In football, I could see a minor league being much more focused on developing rather than just providing a place to keep kids sharp.

That said, the biggest barrier to an NFL-led minor league football outfit is the fact that professional football careers have such a short half life that if you have good talent you really don't feel comfortable wasting them even for a year. Players that emerge from college healthy provide a sense that you didn't have to pay for them for four years to get to that point in their development and they are ready, so I get that. So, I can only see the NFL teams wanting to have a development type league to bring along the high school graduates (to tailor their development toward their system), perhaps a handful of college guys and then particularly the quarterbacks (college or high school) who will benefit from a year or two in the system where the games don't count.
(This post was last modified: 08-10-2017 10:58 AM by ThreeifbyLightning.)
08-10-2017 10:56 AM
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HogDawg Offline
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Post: #22
RE: OT: UCLA QB says "football and academics don't go together"
(08-08-2017 02:58 PM)usm99 Wrote:  https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nc...549170001/

Rosen, an economics major, said being a college football player is “like trying to do two full-time jobs,” and that many student-athletes are ill-equipped to balance school and football commitments.

“There are guys who have no business being in school, but they’re here because this is the path to the NFL,” Rosen said. “There’s no other way. Then there’s the other side that says raise the SAT eligibility requirements. OK, raise the SAT requirement at Alabama and see what kind of team they have. You lose athletes, and then the product on the field suffers.”

Thoughts/opinions?

He's absolutely correct.
08-10-2017 11:24 AM
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HogDawg Offline
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Post: #23
RE: OT: UCLA QB says "football and academics don't go together"
(08-10-2017 07:47 AM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  FBS players should be required to take and pass a certain amount of classes in the summer and zero classes in the fall, their busiest time with football practice, games, travel, etc. Let them be full time FB players in the fall and student athletes the rest of the year.

That's actually not a bad idea. 04-cheers
08-10-2017 11:48 AM
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techdawg28 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: OT: UCLA QB says "football and academics don't go together"
(08-10-2017 07:47 AM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  FBS players should be required to take and pass a certain amount of classes in the summer and zero classes in the fall, their busiest time with football practice, games, travel, etc. Let them be full time FB players in the fall and student athletes the rest of the year.

That sounds nice at first, but a couple of issues.
First, what about schools on the quarter system? Tech's winter quarter starts right after Thanksgiving, so going into a title game, and especially bowl season, our players would be in class while our opponents' are not.
Second, you'd have to do this for every sport. Basketball starts in fall and finishes in spring. So when would they take classes?
08-10-2017 12:29 PM
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Surbadger Offline
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Post: #25
RE: OT: UCLA QB says "football and academics don't go together"
The problem is that some College Athletes (football, basketball mainly) are put on a pedestal and scene as higher that other students. What do these kids do that some other students do not do already? These kids are getting their entire college paid for! Most regular students would kill for that. I don't have much sympathy for athletes that cry that they deserve more benefits and money. They already get literally all bases covered (the best dorm rooms, the best meal plans, athletic attire to wear, etc.) . Yes, colleges make money off of these kids to some extent, but that says more about the P-5, not our colleges. For every athlete that cries about needing more benefits and hand-outs, I'll tell you about 10 regular students that work 2 jobs just to pay for the cheapest of college amenities. That is what ESPN doesn't pay attention to.
08-12-2017 10:05 AM
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Post: #26
RE: OT: UCLA QB says "football and academics don't go together"
(08-12-2017 10:05 AM)Surbadger Wrote:  The problem is that some College Athletes (football, basketball mainly) are put on a pedestal and scene as higher that other students. What do these kids do that some other students do not do already? These kids are getting their entire college paid for! Most regular students would kill for that. I don't have much sympathy for athletes that cry that they deserve more benefits and money. They already get literally all bases covered (the best dorm rooms, the best meal plans, athletic attire to wear, etc.) . Yes, colleges make money off of these kids to some extent, but that says more about the P-5, not our colleges. For every athlete that cries about needing more benefits and hand-outs, I'll tell you about 10 regular students that work 2 jobs just to pay for the cheapest of college amenities. That is what ESPN doesn't pay attention to.
BOOM!
08-12-2017 10:41 AM
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Post: #27
RE: OT: UCLA QB says "football and academics don't go together"
(08-12-2017 10:41 AM)Theflash Wrote:  
(08-12-2017 10:05 AM)Surbadger Wrote:  The problem is that some College Athletes (football, basketball mainly) are put on a pedestal and scene as higher that other students. What do these kids do that some other students do not do already? These kids are getting their entire college paid for! Most regular students would kill for that. I don't have much sympathy for athletes that cry that they deserve more benefits and money. They already get literally all bases covered (the best dorm rooms, the best meal plans, athletic attire to wear, etc.) . Yes, colleges make money off of these kids to some extent, but that says more about the P-5, not our colleges. For every athlete that cries about needing more benefits and hand-outs, I'll tell you about 10 regular students that work 2 jobs just to pay for the cheapest of college amenities. That is what ESPN doesn't pay attention to.
BOOM!

I have always considered college athletics to be be the equivalent of a full time job, and the pay is the scholie.
08-12-2017 03:46 PM
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Surbadger Offline
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Post: #28
RE: OT: UCLA QB says "football and academics don't go together"
(08-12-2017 03:46 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(08-12-2017 10:41 AM)Theflash Wrote:  
(08-12-2017 10:05 AM)Surbadger Wrote:  The problem is that some College Athletes (football, basketball mainly) are put on a pedestal and scene as higher that other students. What do these kids do that some other students do not do already? These kids are getting their entire college paid for! Most regular students would kill for that. I don't have much sympathy for athletes that cry that they deserve more benefits and money. They already get literally all bases covered (the best dorm rooms, the best meal plans, athletic attire to wear, etc.) . Yes, colleges make money off of these kids to some extent, but that says more about the P-5, not our colleges. For every athlete that cries about needing more benefits and hand-outs, I'll tell you about 10 regular students that work 2 jobs just to pay for the cheapest of college amenities. That is what ESPN doesn't pay attention to.
BOOM!

I have always considered college athletics to be be the equivalent of a full time job, and the pay is the scholie.

Exactly... The estimated 'Cost of Attendence' for a student at Marshall University is just shy of $30,000 a year. That's roughly $120,000 for a 4 year athlete. If redshirted, that is over $150,000 in just 5 years!!! Tell me college athletes are not paid well enough. Brandon Doughty had to have cost WKU at least a good Mill... All jokes aside, stipends for living expenses are a load of bull, because there is no need for it. Players are given the finest of everything available during college. Those stipends will usually go toward Air Jordan's and Hover boards instead of useful things.
08-12-2017 05:37 PM
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westsidewolf1989 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: OT: UCLA QB says "football and academics don't go together"
(08-12-2017 05:37 PM)Surbadger Wrote:  
(08-12-2017 03:46 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(08-12-2017 10:41 AM)Theflash Wrote:  
(08-12-2017 10:05 AM)Surbadger Wrote:  The problem is that some College Athletes (football, basketball mainly) are put on a pedestal and scene as higher that other students. What do these kids do that some other students do not do already? These kids are getting their entire college paid for! Most regular students would kill for that. I don't have much sympathy for athletes that cry that they deserve more benefits and money. They already get literally all bases covered (the best dorm rooms, the best meal plans, athletic attire to wear, etc.) . Yes, colleges make money off of these kids to some extent, but that says more about the P-5, not our colleges. For every athlete that cries about needing more benefits and hand-outs, I'll tell you about 10 regular students that work 2 jobs just to pay for the cheapest of college amenities. That is what ESPN doesn't pay attention to.
BOOM!

I have always considered college athletics to be be the equivalent of a full time job, and the pay is the scholie.

Exactly... The estimated 'Cost of Attendence' for a student at Marshall University is just shy of $30,000 a year. That's roughly $120,000 for a 4 year athlete. If redshirted, that is over $150,000 in just 5 years!!! Tell me college athletes are not paid well enough. Brandon Doughty had to have cost WKU at least a good Mill... All jokes aside, stipends for living expenses are a load of bull, because there is no need for it. Players are given the finest of everything available during college. Those stipends will usually go toward Air Jordan's and Hover boards instead of useful things.

A problem with that is the fact that many of them will never find a college scholarship useful because a) they are not smart enough to study something that is more marketable than a high school diploma / will provide them with a job that is above what a high school graduate / technical school grad could make or b) their coach forbids them from studying a variety of subjects that some players may find interesting/actually marketable. Let's imagine a world where everyone on X football team is very smart and they all want to study science / engineering. Do you think the head coach is going to say "Sure guys, that would be great if you all studied physics, biology, chemistry, engineering, etc.! Hope you have fun at all of those afternoon and night labs!"? No, the coach is instead going to say "If you're a starter, don't even think about majoring in something other than Recreational Studies, General Studies, etc."

A college scholarship for many of these guys is the equivalent of someone giving you a massive gift card to a restaurant but then telling you that you can only use it on the crappiest items on the menu.
08-14-2017 11:21 AM
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ThreeifbyLightning Online
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Post: #30
RE: OT: UCLA QB says "football and academics don't go together"
(08-14-2017 11:21 AM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  
(08-12-2017 05:37 PM)Surbadger Wrote:  
(08-12-2017 03:46 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(08-12-2017 10:41 AM)Theflash Wrote:  
(08-12-2017 10:05 AM)Surbadger Wrote:  The problem is that some College Athletes (football, basketball mainly) are put on a pedestal and scene as higher that other students. What do these kids do that some other students do not do already? These kids are getting their entire college paid for! Most regular students would kill for that. I don't have much sympathy for athletes that cry that they deserve more benefits and money. They already get literally all bases covered (the best dorm rooms, the best meal plans, athletic attire to wear, etc.) . Yes, colleges make money off of these kids to some extent, but that says more about the P-5, not our colleges. For every athlete that cries about needing more benefits and hand-outs, I'll tell you about 10 regular students that work 2 jobs just to pay for the cheapest of college amenities. That is what ESPN doesn't pay attention to.
BOOM!

I have always considered college athletics to be be the equivalent of a full time job, and the pay is the scholie.

Exactly... The estimated 'Cost of Attendence' for a student at Marshall University is just shy of $30,000 a year. That's roughly $120,000 for a 4 year athlete. If redshirted, that is over $150,000 in just 5 years!!! Tell me college athletes are not paid well enough. Brandon Doughty had to have cost WKU at least a good Mill... All jokes aside, stipends for living expenses are a load of bull, because there is no need for it. Players are given the finest of everything available during college. Those stipends will usually go toward Air Jordan's and Hover boards instead of useful things.

A problem with that is the fact that many of them will never find a college scholarship useful because a) they are not smart enough to study something that is more marketable than a high school diploma / will provide them with a job that is above what a high school graduate / technical school grad could make or b) their coach forbids them from studying a variety of subjects that some players may find interesting/actually marketable. Let's imagine a world where everyone on X football team is very smart and they all want to study science / engineering. Do you think the head coach is going to say "Sure guys, that would be great if you all studied physics, biology, chemistry, engineering, etc.! Hope you have fun at all of those afternoon and night labs!"? No, the coach is instead going to say "If you're a starter, don't even think about majoring in something other than Recreational Studies, General Studies, etc."

A college scholarship for many of these guys is the equivalent of someone giving you a massive gift card to a restaurant but then telling you that you can only use it on the crappiest items on the menu.

Which is part of the problem with the system. And for coaches that are doing that shame on them.

The moment when booster clubs started paying for coaches salaries and "benefits" was the beginning of the end.

Thankfully at MT we have a coach that doesn't do business that way. And I also appreciate there is an academic requirement tied to his contract.

University Presidents need to come back to the center on this. They've lost control and the issues surrounding the compensation for coaches is out of control too.
(This post was last modified: 08-14-2017 11:43 AM by ThreeifbyLightning.)
08-14-2017 11:39 AM
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