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OT: UCLA QB says "football and academics don't go together"
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Hilltopper2K Offline
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Post: #11
RE: OT: UCLA QB says "football and academics don't go together"
Minor league baseball basically killed NCAA baseball as a revenue sport. Wouldn't minor league football do the same?
08-09-2017 05:33 AM
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ThreeifbyLightning Online
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Post: #12
RE: OT: UCLA QB says "football and academics don't go together"
(08-09-2017 05:33 AM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  Minor league baseball basically killed NCAA baseball as a revenue sport. Wouldn't minor league football do the same?

Not sure I understand this comment. When was college baseball ever considered a revenue sport? Minor league baseball has been around since the mid 1800's and when Branch Rickey created the modern day farm system around 1920, college baseball was hardly a revenue sport. College baseball is more of a revenue sport today at some schools than it ever was historically. I would also venture that college baseball is currently more popular than it has ever been, so I really don't see how this comment has merit.

If it existed I can't imagine most kids preferring to go the pro/minor league route vs. playing at high revenue colleges like Ohio State, Tennessee, Alabama, etc. The facilities, amenities, etc., will never be on par with major college football. A minor league football would likely be for kids who can't get the grades or simply don't want to go to school at all. And while there would certainly be some "losses" to college football because of kids who would rather just play ball and eliminate the academic part of the equation all together, I hardly doubt it would kill college football. Playing a minor league football game in front of 3,000 people and making $800 a month is never going to compare to the experience you can get playing college football. Now, if you are a junior college like we see on Last Chance U, then a minor league football establishment would outright kill those programs off - which might not be a bad thing.
(This post was last modified: 08-09-2017 07:02 AM by ThreeifbyLightning.)
08-09-2017 06:54 AM
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ThreeifbyLightning Online
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Post: #13
RE: OT: UCLA QB says "football and academics don't go together"
IMO, Rosen's views are narrowly scoped. He's looking out at the world through a pin hole. He's scratched the surface. Whatever colloquialism you want to use. What he sees are the symptoms of larger societal issues. I might even suggests that his cultural bias growing up in an affluent suburb of Los Angeles prevents him from even understanding the root cause of the issue that he is raising.

It's not that you can't have football and education together. Most of these kids that he's "concerned about" grew up in a world where school didn't matter and all the coaches wanted to do was to keep them eligible. There are so many underlying variables and societal problems that belie this issue, it would take a dissertation to get through them all.
(This post was last modified: 08-09-2017 07:16 AM by ThreeifbyLightning.)
08-09-2017 07:14 AM
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LaTechBanjo Offline
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Post: #14
RE: OT: UCLA QB says "football and academics don't go together"
(08-09-2017 05:33 AM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  Minor league baseball basically killed NCAA baseball as a revenue sport. Wouldn't minor league football do the same?

Maybe, maybe not. I tend to think not. Firstly, I don't agree baseball was ever a viable revenue sport for most schools.

People like CFB for different reasons than they like the NFL. If the top players eschew college for semi-pro, there would likely be more parity in college football, but otherwise I don't think most CFB fans would turn the channel. We still like the tradition, rivalries, and atmosphere.

Stuff like top NFL draft prospects skipping their bowl games actually takes away from college football in deference to the NFL. With a true minor league, you'd see less of that.

The Pac-Pro league is supposed to start in 2018, but isn't officially sanctioned by the NFL. 50k/year salaries, benefits, and ability to have endorsement deals. If the NFL got behind it and funded it, I think players would go crazy for it. But they've got it good with the NCAA being a free 3-year farm league. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nf.../96416744/

The NCAA and universities can stick their heads in the sand as long as they'd like, but the player compensation issue is just beginning. The drumbeat of concussion studies and player safety issues such as those will only make it more pronounced. The NCAA should honestly start pushing viable alternatives to playing college football and forgoing compensation, IMO.
08-09-2017 09:56 AM
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Nugget49er Offline
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Post: #15
RE: OT: UCLA QB says "football and academics don't go together"
(08-09-2017 07:14 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  IMO, Rosen's views are narrowly scoped. He's looking out at the world through a pin hole. He's scratched the surface. Whatever colloquialism you want to use. What he sees are the symptoms of larger societal issues. I might even suggests that his cultural bias growing up in an affluent suburb of Los Angeles prevents him from even understanding the root cause of the issue that he is raising.

It's not that you can't have football and education together. Most of these kids that he's "concerned about" grew up in a world where school didn't matter and all the coaches wanted to do was to keep them eligible. There are so many underlying variables and societal problems that belie this issue, it would take a dissertation to get through them all.

I remember in the 80s the NCAA adopted Proposition 48, a rule raising the academic requirements to be eligible for a college athletic scholarship. The idea was if young athletes knew that the classroom was the path to playing college ball they would take their educations more seriously and be better prepared for the rigors of college when they got there.

It did not take long for people to call this discriminatory against minority kids. John Thompson Jr at Georgetown led the charge to repeal Prop 48. Opponents said the tests involved in measuring academic success (grades in school, SAT/ACT) were racially biased and kept kids from the opportunity to play college sports, which was their ticket to a higher education and a better life.

Prop 48 was gutted, and I think we can now see the results. Most student-athletes (black, white, everyone) that play college football or basketball are not prepared for the academic challenge, and while most of them graduate they are not getting good jobs on par with their fellow alums. For those good enough to play in the pros, many are not educated enough to manage their finances and end up broke and minimally employable in a few years.

I disagree with the author's point about the product on the field suffering if academic standards are raised. He is probably correct that individual athletes would not be as good, but as long as the teams are equally competitive I think the football would be as good as it is now. Nobody in 1990 was saying that college football was not good enough and athletes today are certainly much better. As always, schools that cheat academically would just be better and start us on the slippery slope again.
08-09-2017 09:58 AM
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Hood-rich Offline
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Post: #16
RE: OT: UCLA QB says "football and academics don't go together"
(08-08-2017 02:58 PM)usm99 Wrote:  OK, raise the SAT requirement at Alabama and see what kind of team they have. You lose athletes, and then the product on the field suffers.”

Thoughts/opinions?

Totally disagree with this part. If everybody held themselves to a higher standard the product on the field (actual competition) would be great. Yeah, the pool of uber talented athletes might not be as big but the competition would be just as good.
(This post was last modified: 08-09-2017 02:28 PM by Hood-rich.)
08-09-2017 02:27 PM
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Native Georgian Offline
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Post: #17
RE: OT: UCLA QB says "football and academics don't go together"
(08-08-2017 03:09 PM)LaTechBanjo Wrote:  NFL needs to put together a true minor league.
The integrity of "college football" is not high on the NFL's list of priorities. Hell, the integrity of the NFL itself isn't high on the NFL's list, either. It's all about the $$$ and on that front the NFL is doing just fine.

From a player-development standpoint, the upper-level factories like Alabama/Florida State/etc. serve the same function that a minor league would so, plus the NFL doesn't have to deal with the drama every time a college player gets busted for drugs/robbery/rape/you-name-it. The existing system is virtually perfect from the NFL's point of view, and I doubt they will ever do anything to change it.
08-09-2017 08:20 PM
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MinerInWisconsin Offline
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Post: #18
RE: OT: UCLA QB says "football and academics don't go together"
FBS players should be required to take and pass a certain amount of classes in the summer and zero classes in the fall, their busiest time with football practice, games, travel, etc. Let them be full time FB players in the fall and student athletes the rest of the year.
08-10-2017 07:47 AM
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LaTechBanjo Offline
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Post: #19
RE: OT: UCLA QB says "football and academics don't go together"
(08-09-2017 08:20 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(08-08-2017 03:09 PM)LaTechBanjo Wrote:  NFL needs to put together a true minor league.
The integrity of "college football" is not high on the NFL's list of priorities. Hell, the integrity of the NFL itself isn't high on the NFL's list, either. It's all about the $$$ and on that front the NFL is doing just fine.

From a player-development standpoint, the upper-level factories like Alabama/Florida State/etc. serve the same function that a minor league would so, plus the NFL doesn't have to deal with the drama every time a college player gets busted for drugs/robbery/rape/you-name-it. The existing system is virtually perfect from the NFL's point of view, and I doubt they will ever do anything to change it.

Agreed. This is the problem.

The NCAA would be wise to aid in developing something so as to deflect the "pay the players" debate.
08-10-2017 09:59 AM
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HerdZoned Offline
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Post: #20
RE: OT: UCLA QB says "football and academics don't go together"
(08-08-2017 05:45 PM)monarx Wrote:  Football could use a legit developmental league for guys who don't want to or can't go to college. Pay them $30,000 each to play football for minor leagues as tryouts for the pros. The pro teams should subsidize the minor league. The NBA DL was rumored to work this way, but it hasn't lived up to all its potential yet. College would still be a route to the NFL, but it would provide another option for people too. NFL football doesn't really require a college education, but at this point, it does require college level athletic development because there are no other options.

I'm going to go off topic here. The D-League or now rebranded G-League needs to work full time as a minor league. By 2019 every NBA franchise will have their own G-League team. The NBA needs to drop the age limit they set a few years back and let those good enough be drafted. If the NBA truly wants the kids to be at least a year out of HS then those teams that draft HS players send them to their G-League team with a contract that reads that player will be called up in a certain timeframe.

Also I think it could work almost as well as the Hockey minors work, where a team could send a vet player down to work the rust off of an injury or send someone down or up for not producing or the potential of a rookie or unknown having a breakout.
08-10-2017 10:42 AM
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