(08-08-2017 07:32 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  Of course you have the "CAA will implode" club whose lurkers have been predicting incorrectly the leagues demise for years. The league is actually quite strong today.

I'll admit to being among the doomsday crew. It's not because of any one school; I happen to feel JMU, were it to leave, forces some known challenges onto CAA and CAAF. It's not that CAA dies from it; I think you see some peel-off's, especially in CAAF.

There's just a lot happening in places like URI, Nova, and Stony. Does any change lead to others making their own decisions; the crossroads thing? I think that's been in the back of some of our minds. Yes, it's been some years and no real changes...to me, it has been a matter of who than when.

Nothing against Elon and CoC as schools; you're right about their presence up here in the northeast/mid-Atlantic. But, those were consolation prizes. CAA wanted Davidson. They still want (but can't get) Furman. Count me as one who feels some of the BS in both CAA and SoCon fueled a few of the FBS upgrades, thinning the replacement pool. Keep playing games, keeping others at bay for selfish reasons; CAA would be wise to learn from SoCon.

CAA is good FB, I don't follow 1AA that well
With CAA push south, Hofstra & NE will peel off
A-10 implodes [Mass, VCU, StLious, Dayton]
A-10 will look in NY/NE

(08-08-2017 10:12 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Sitting bull, you think the CAA would have any interest in Youngstown St?

Possibly if things became really dire, I've heard that one before. Also have heard Mercer and Florida Gulf Coast - all of those several years ago when the league was truly staggering a bit, just after Mason left. For now though, no.

Things have stabilized. I don't see any major changes in the near future for the CAA - unless it's a football associated member like UAlbany or UNH joining for all sports. If and when there comes the major new shakeup from the NCAA, every conference will have a new litmus test on members.

There's a pecking order in conference athletics. The CAA gets poached by the A10 and CUSA, the CAA poaches the So Con and AEast. These pecking orders will always exist.

(08-09-2017 02:20 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  CAA is good FB, I don't follow 1AA that well
With CAA push south, Hofstra & NE will peel off
A-10 implodes [Mass, VCU, StLious, Dayton]
A-10 will look in NY/NE

A10 is basketball, CAA is all sports headlined by football.

If above were to happen, I actually believe it would strengthen the CAA. Hofstra and Northeastern, maybe Drexel, move to A10; Stony Brook and UAlbany join CAA as all sports members. You could then even consider URI - if the A10 imploded to the level you describe, the upside to be in a weaker basketball league vs an all sports conference with football could be a decision either way. Same for UR, possibly Duquesne.

UMass is a mess. Their only salvation is the AAC. Otherwise, they should just come back home to the CAA where they belong. Interesting they are only playing one game in Boston this year - and it's Maine.

(08-09-2017 12:55 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I think you see some peel-off's, especially in CAAF.

But who, and to where??

The elder statesmen remaining in the CAA, if JMU left, would be:
- Towson, founder but left shortly after, and was last in AEast before re-joining CAA as a full member
- W&M, founder and has always been a full member
- UNCW, joined full in 1984 and has never left

Otherwise, you have the other two schools (besides Towson returning) from the "Delaware shiv'ing the AEast in the back" group, Hofstra (no more football) and Drexel. And finally, Northeastern (no more football) from 2005, Charleston from 2013, and Elon from 2014.

(08-09-2017 05:57 AM)Sitting bull Wrote:  Things have stabilized. I don't see any major changes in the near future for the CAA - unless it's a football associated member like UAlbany or UNH joining for all sports.
...
There's a pecking order in conference athletics. The CAA gets poached by the A10 and CUSA, the CAA poaches the So Con and AEast. These pecking orders will always exist.

Yeah but the last two you mention, aren't really true. I think Elon is the only actual example of the former, and was hardly the SoCon's best remaining school, while the main example of the latter is entirely due to the "Delaware shiv'ing the AEast in the back" group.

As it stands now, though, the AEast would actually have the same number of members as the CAA would in CAAF, if JMU left. In that case, would actually like to see the AEast take over the football conf ... if nothing else, just to piss in Delaware's cheerios. The jerks deserve it.

(08-09-2017 08:27 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(08-09-2017 12:55 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I think you see some peel-off's, especially in CAAF.

But who, and to where??

The elder statesmen remaining in the CAA, if JMU left, would be:
- Towson, founder but left shortly after, and was last in AEast before re-joining CAA as a full member
- W&M, founder and has always been a full member
- UNCW, joined full in 1984 and has never left

Otherwise, you have the other two schools (besides Towson returning) from the "Delaware shiv'ing the AEast in the back" group, Hofstra (no more football) and Drexel. And finally, Northeastern (no more football) from 2005, Charleston from 2013, and Elon from 2014.

(08-09-2017 05:57 AM)Sitting bull Wrote:  Things have stabilized. I don't see any major changes in the near future for the CAA - unless it's a football associated member like UAlbany or UNH joining for all sports.
...
There's a pecking order in conference athletics. The CAA gets poached by the A10 and CUSA, the CAA poaches the So Con and AEast. These pecking orders will always exist.

Yeah but the last two you mention, aren't really true. I think Elon is the only actual example of the former, and was hardly the SoCon's best remaining school, while the main example of the latter is entirely due to the "Delaware shiv'ing the AEast in the back" group.

As it stands now, though, the AEast would actually have the same number of members as the CAA would in CAAF, if JMU left. In that case, would actually like to see the AEast take over the football conf ... if nothing else, just to piss in Delaware's cheerios. The jerks deserve it.

Actually two - Elon and Charleston. Davidson also flirted with it - then went to the A10. Whether that choice pans out best remains to be seen. Others could still be courted I think - UNCG and VMI possibly - if needed.

On the AEast - I guess it's possible though I'm not sure that's what UAlbany and Stony Brook bargained for - or UNH as example would be on that train. The northern flank benefits with the association of the group south. Just look at the playoffs - all the CAA teams that have been to the semis of finals have been the southern group - JMU, W&M, UR, Delaware, Towson. UNH managed once.

If I'm in charge of the AEast - or a member for other sports - why would I want to take that on and weaken my position? Pissing off Delaware is childish - as if Delaware would care. They have joined the group they wanted - Villanova, W&M, UR, JMU and Towson.

Whoops, I stand corrected, Elon and Charleston. Thank you for correcting me. Still .... no Furman, Wofford, or Davidson. Granted, the latter had a better offer.

The rest of your post --- NO, that's not what I was saying. I'm saying that the Yankee Football Conference -- because that's what it actually is -- would simply swap out the "CAA" masthead for a "AEast" masthead. Just like it swapped out the "A10" masthead for the "CAA" masthead in the mid 2000's. All the same teams would still be there. It would simply be AEast football.

Delaware left the AEast, and tried to kill the conference, because they were spoiled little brats. I hope nothing more than to pull the rug from under them and end up with the Yankee being under AEast while JMU and perhaps W&M flee the all-sports CAA.

(08-08-2017 04:00 PM)templefootballfan Wrote:  with CAA looking south
American East should go after Hofstra & Noortheastern

From your lips to God's ears ... please let it be so.

The only reason those schools are in the CAA is that they had football programs which they dropped after gaining entrance to the CAA.

It is felt that one of those schools has blackballed Stony Brook from the CAA.

Swapping Albany and Stony Brook for Northeastern and Hofstra is okay in my book.

Hofstra doesn't deserve back into the AEast. They stabbed them in the back when they hitched their belt to Delaware's ego.

They legit think they're too good for the AEast, and think they should be in the A10.

I honestly think the CAA would be much better off with Albany and Stony Brook. I think those two programs have a lot of potential while Hofstra and NE have seen their best days already.

I wish Towson would transfer its football program and CAA membership to UMBC.

(08-08-2017 09:54 PM)Zorch Wrote:  

(08-08-2017 12:28 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  Just out of curiosity, is there a reason why W&M didn't join the ACC in 1953? The school did play several bowl games in the late 1940s and is just as small as Duke and Wake Forest.

W&M was competitive (in all sports) with the big VA/NC state schools in the late forties, early fifties. Then W&M got embroiled in an academic/athletic scandal and de-emphasized sports, especially football. That happened in '51 or '52, right before the ACC formed. That was probably part of it; more of it was probably the big schools just not wanting to play at little W&M. The Tribe (Indians back then) played basketball in a small rat-trap called Blow Gym and the fans could pound their feet on the section above the rims and actually make the rims rock. When Lefty Driesell left Davidson for Maryland he said that the best thing about the move was that he would never again have to play in Blow Gym. Lastly, concerning football, after the administration de-emphasized athletics, most of the good football players transferred. There were only about 22-23 players left. They still played that year (won 2-3 games, I believe) and became known as the Iron Indians.

Frankly, with what has happened to big-time college sports, not being in the ACC could have been the best thing to happen to W&M.

Interesting bit of W&M athletic history. I'm surprised that W&M would not want to share a conference with UVA, Duke, UNC and WF, it's academic peers.

(08-09-2017 12:12 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  

(08-08-2017 09:54 PM)Zorch Wrote:  

(08-08-2017 12:28 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  Just out of curiosity, is there a reason why W&M didn't join the ACC in 1953? The school did play several bowl games in the late 1940s and is just as small as Duke and Wake Forest.

W&M was competitive (in all sports) with the big VA/NC state schools in the late forties, early fifties. Then W&M got embroiled in an academic/athletic scandal and de-emphasized sports, especially football. That happened in '51 or '52, right before the ACC formed. That was probably part of it; more of it was probably the big schools just not wanting to play at little W&M. The Tribe (Indians back then) played basketball in a small rat-trap called Blow Gym and the fans could pound their feet on the section above the rims and actually make the rims rock. When Lefty Driesell left Davidson for Maryland he said that the best thing about the move was that he would never again have to play in Blow Gym. Lastly, concerning football, after the administration de-emphasized athletics, most of the good football players transferred. There were only about 22-23 players left. They still played that year (won 2-3 games, I believe) and became known as the Iron Indians.

Frankly, with what has happened to big-time college sports, not being in the ACC could have been the best thing to happen to W&M.

Interesting bit of W&M athletic history. I'm surprised that W&M would not want to share a conference with UVA, Duke, UNC and WF, it's academic peers.

They did in 1970 when Dr. Paschall was President and Lou Holtz the coach. USC had just left the ACC, angered over the conference basketball tournament (at that time, the ACC was among the only conferences that had a tourney and sent that winner as the sole rep into the NCAA). That move left the ACC with 7 schools - and W&M proceeded to fill the slot. W&M had the votes to gain admission though as this was all in motion, Dr. Paschall retired and the new Prez, Thomas Graves, wanted to move W&M toward an Ivy style relationship (hence, the "Colonial League"). Georgia Tech eventually filled the USC slot. Soon after, ESPN was born and TV money began ruling the world of college football. In 1970, the ACC stretched from DC to Charlotte (Clemson). Today, Boston to South Bend to Miami. Its a different world.

I agree with an earlier poster though - I kind of like where we are.

What could have been ....

wonder if W&M is in the ACC since the 70's, is Virginia Tech still successfully able to push its way into the conf in the 2000's or are they stuck in the Big East?

This thread is exposing the role of money in intercollegiate athletics, and the destruction that it is causing.

W&M and the original ACC schools have a wonderful history.

In all of the "minor" sports, ACC schools still come to Williamsburg to compete.

In men's hoops and football, no ACC school has come to Williamsburg since the early '80's. All of W&M's games with ACC schools in these two sports are on the road.

College sports is having an attendance problem. This is one of the reasons. If an ACC school came to Williamsburg, there would be a sell-out, but those schools, under the current system, can not afford a non-conference road loss at W&M.

It's a very sad state of affairs, and not good for the college game as a whole.

(08-09-2017 12:41 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  

(08-09-2017 12:12 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  

(08-08-2017 09:54 PM)Zorch Wrote:  

(08-08-2017 12:28 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  Just out of curiosity, is there a reason why W&M didn't join the ACC in 1953? The school did play several bowl games in the late 1940s and is just as small as Duke and Wake Forest.

W&M was competitive (in all sports) with the big VA/NC state schools in the late forties, early fifties. Then W&M got embroiled in an academic/athletic scandal and de-emphasized sports, especially football. That happened in '51 or '52, right before the ACC formed. That was probably part of it; more of it was probably the big schools just not wanting to play at little W&M. The Tribe (Indians back then) played basketball in a small rat-trap called Blow Gym and the fans could pound their feet on the section above the rims and actually make the rims rock. When Lefty Driesell left Davidson for Maryland he said that the best thing about the move was that he would never again have to play in Blow Gym. Lastly, concerning football, after the administration de-emphasized athletics, most of the good football players transferred. There were only about 22-23 players left. They still played that year (won 2-3 games, I believe) and became known as the Iron Indians.

Frankly, with what has happened to big-time college sports, not being in the ACC could have been the best thing to happen to W&M.

Interesting bit of W&M athletic history. I'm surprised that W&M would not want to share a conference with UVA, Duke, UNC and WF, it's academic peers.

They did in 1970 when Dr. Paschall was President and Lou Holtz the coach. USC had just left the ACC, angered over the conference basketball tournament (at that time, the ACC was among the only conferences that had a tourney and sent that winner as the sole rep into the NCAA). That move left the ACC with 7 schools - and W&M proceeded to fill the slot. W&M had the votes to gain admission though as this was all in motion, Dr. Paschall retired and the new Prez, Thomas Graves, wanted to move W&M toward an Ivy style relationship (hence, the "Colonial League"). Georgia Tech eventually filled the USC slot. Soon after, ESPN was born and TV money began ruling the world of college football. In 1970, the ACC stretched from DC to Charlotte (Clemson). Today, Boston to South Bend to Miami. Its a different world.

I agree with an earlier poster though - I kind of like where we are.

That's too bad. I think W&M would've been a natural fit in the ACC and Maryland's closest ACC opponent. We played the Tribe in 2012 at Byrd Stadium. We barely won, 7-6.

(08-09-2017 01:07 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  What could have been ....

wonder if W&M is in the ACC since the 70's, is Virginia Tech still successfully able to push its way into the conf in the 2000's or are they stuck in the Big East?

If W&M were in the ACC and possibly Virginia's #1 college football program, then Virginia Tech could've been stuck in Conference USA with East Carolina.

Or perhaps in Big 12 with WVU.

The CAA is in A very precarious spot. It makes absolutely ZERO sense to have a round robin FCS conference from Boston to Charleston. It's just dumb.

In the short term the CAA needs to get into travel friendly divisions. Towson and the other 4 schools to the north need to add Stony Brook and tell Hofstra to suck it up while the southern schools need to add UNCG so the south will have perfect travel partners. Adding stony brook would give the CAA 6 full time football members again plus Richmond and Nova who are attached to full time CAA schools.

(08-09-2017 05:52 PM)solohawks Wrote:  The CAA is in A very precarious spot. It makes absolutely ZERO sense to have a round robin FCS conference from Boston to Charleston. It's just dumb.

In the short term the CAA needs to get into travel friendly divisions. Towson and the other 4 schools to the north need to add Stony Brook and tell Hofstra to suck it up while the southern schools need to add UNCG so the south will have perfect travel partners. Adding stony brook would give the CAA 6 full time football members again plus Richmond and Nova who are attached to full time CAA schools.

It actually makes perfect sense. Schools like Elon and College of Charleston recruit northeastern students (not just student athletes, but students).