Fact is the NFL has as much right to protect their product as the individual has to freedom of speak. I didn't like what happened to Tebow, others don't like what happened to Cap. The fact is the NFL is in the money making business.

Now on another note, no NFL team should benefit from ANY tax payer's money if the League is going to silence freedom of speech. What say you?

Cap is happening because of the lessons learned from Tebow.

Your backup cannot / should not ever be the lead story distracting from the team. Even the Patriots could not really stop it - if they can't nobody can. That is a lot of baggage and time - unless you are really bringing him in to start without question, he is just not worth the headache right now.

Even if he "might" start - it is not worth it. Plus the guy had better perform, because if he doesn't you will get skewered in the public eye.

Not a lot of upside and tons of downside here.

Rule of thumb in any public facing job: when you present, the only thing customers should find themselves concerned with is the product, and it should be a positive opinion of the product.

Tebow was annoying, but ultimately it was his inability to read defenses or pass the ball down field that did him in. His skill set did not fit his build. He might have been a solid ILB or blocking TE had he been trained that way.

CK is deliberately committing career suicide. Seattle and Baltimore are places he should have been able to latch on at. But he did not get past the interview. From what is being said by even black players is he cannot shut up about his social stances even in these job interviews. He is blowing off advice from people who know what is going wrong, and being egged on by some on the left who think it makes him a great icon. The consensus opinion is he is totally ***** whipped and indoctrinated by his girlfriend. He is that annoying guy at a party who is totally committed to his cause and can't shut up about it to be in the moment (the wedding, the graduation, the fireworks display, the football game ... whatever).

Now were CK more than a 20% accuracy thrower deep, and were he able to learn his craft to go through progressions -- defenses caught after 2 years that if his first read is not open he looks to run, so the cover that and then play run defense -- then he'd be more valuable, maybe enough to get a deal. But while as good a runner as Steve Young was, he is not the gun slinger he was, nor as socially smart to read the room.

(08-07-2017 12:20 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Rule of thumb in any public facing job: when you present, the only thing customers should find themselves concerned with is the product, and it should be a positive opinion of the product.

Tebow was annoying, but ultimately it was his inability to read defenses or pass the ball down field that did him in. His skill set did not fit his build. He might have been a solid ILB or blocking TE had he been trained that way.

CK is deliberately committing career suicide. Seattle and Baltimore are places he should have been able to latch on at. But he did not get past the interview. From what is being said by even black players is he cannot shut up about his social stances even in these job interviews. He is blowing off advice from people who know what is going wrong, and being egged on by some on the left who think it makes him a great icon. The consensus opinion is he is totally ***** whipped and indoctrinated by his girlfriend. He is that annoying guy at a party who is totally committed to his cause and can't shut up about it to be in the moment (the wedding, the graduation, the fireworks display, the football game ... whatever).

Now were CK more than a 20% accuracy thrower deep, and were he able to learn his craft to go through progressions -- defenses caught after 2 years that if his first read is not open he looks to run, so the cover that and then play run defense -- then he'd be more valuable, maybe enough to get a deal. But while as good a runner as Steve Young was, he is not the gun slinger he was, nor as socially smart to read the room.

I'm curious if you have actual sources for that. Or if you are just repeating what people made up on message boards.

BUT HE IS BEING BLACKBALLED MAN!

Stugray2 - How dare you muddy the politics of this argument with football related facts - that does not play into the dialogue - what would ESPN talk about for the next 4 weeks?.

Whether right or wrong, in sports, your "freedom of speech" goes as far as your ability (or perceived ability) on-the-field/court at that time. LeBron James can say whatever the heck he wants on political issues and even the most right-wing owner won't care because LeBron brings in wins and money. To that effect, if this was a few years ago when Kaepernick was just coming off of his Super Bowl appearance, absolutely no team would have cared about his protests, either (just as whether you can make a comeback after committing a crime is directly tied to your talent level). Kaepernick's main issue is that he stopped being good at being a quarterback, which means the margin of error for him to be controversial became razor-thin. That fact is what has been missing from both sides of the debate (right and left) regarding CK - sports is a results-oriented business above all else and if a player isn't producing results, then the off-the-field stuff becomes intolerable. On the flip side, off-the-field stuff is pretty much ignored by the powers that be if you're producing results (as GMs in all sports are ultimately judged by wins and losses at the end of the day instead of whether they make either of side of the political spectrum happy or not).

And to be sure, Kaepernick's political stances personally really don't matter to me. As a fan of one of the worst teams in the NFL (the Chicago Bears), the only thing that I care about is whether he can actually play well or not. If he can't play well, then whether one agrees or disagrees with his political stances is completely irrelevant.

(08-07-2017 12:46 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Whether right or wrong, in sports, your "freedom of speech" goes as far as your ability (or perceived ability) on-the-field/court at that time. LeBron James can say whatever the heck he wants on political issues and even the most right-wing owner won't care because LeBron brings in wins and money. To that effect, if this was a few years ago when Kaepernick was just coming off of his Super Bowl appearance, absolutely no team would have cared about his protests, either (just as whether you can make a comeback after committing a crime is directly tied to your talent level). Kaepernick's main issue is that he stopped being good at being a quarterback, which means the margin of error for him to be controversial became razor-thin. That fact is what has been missing from both sides of the debate (right and left) regarding CK - sports is a results-oriented business above all else and if a player isn't producing results, then the off-the-field stuff becomes intolerable. On the flip side, off-the-field stuff is pretty much ignored by the powers that be if you're producing results (as GMs in all sports are ultimately judged by wins and losses at the end of the day instead of whether they make either of side of the political spectrum happy or not).

Craft first. CK is not getting that message in his head. He has NFL ability, but his focus is not on that. It comes out in the interviews he has failed. Love the way coaches refer to it as "the process"

The QB position is a rare white collar job on a FB team. So it has a big interview process, going over the role, how you fit, what you bring, and a Q&A about all sorts of reads and mechanics and such. Rule of thumb for all jobs, most people interviewing lack the power to hire, but all have the power to veto a hire. In my long career I used that veto only a couple times. You really have to be a jerk (or completely incompetent) to get a veto. The reason you are even interviewed is because you passed the initial screening and you are a very serious candidate for the position. CK has had two such chances where all he had to do was not F up the interview. And he blew both of them.

noticed my "cat reference" phrase got bleeped.

Half the league is suffering through overpaying a garbage QB. Kaep is good enough for a job. NFL teams have blackballed him.

(08-07-2017 12:20 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Rule of thumb in any public facing job: when you present, the only thing customers should find themselves concerned with is the product, and it should be a positive opinion of the product.

Tebow was annoying, but ultimately it was his inability to read defenses or pass the ball down field that did him in. His skill set did not fit his build. He might have been a solid ILB or blocking TE had he been trained that way.

CK is deliberately committing career suicide. Seattle and Baltimore are places he should have been able to latch on at. But he did not get past the interview. From what is being said by even black players is he cannot shut up about his social stances even in these job interviews. He is blowing off advice from people who know what is going wrong, and being egged on by some on the left who think it makes him a great icon. The consensus opinion is he is totally ***** whipped and indoctrinated by his girlfriend. He is that annoying guy at a party who is totally committed to his cause and can't shut up about it to be in the moment (the wedding, the graduation, the fireworks display, the football game ... whatever).

Now were CK more than a 20% accuracy thrower deep, and were he able to learn his craft to go through progressions -- defenses caught after 2 years that if his first read is not open he looks to run, so the cover that and then play run defense -- then he'd be more valuable, maybe enough to get a deal. But while as good a runner as Steve Young was, he is not the gun slinger he was, nor as socially smart to read the room.

(08-07-2017 02:06 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  Half the league is suffering through overpaying a garbage QB. Kaep is good enough for a job. NFL teams have blackballed him.

Perhaps, but if you're an owner/GM and have a choice between a mediocre backup without baggage or a mediocre backup with TONS of baggage that could potentially alienate half your fanbase, who do you choose?

There's stories every week about someone losing their job over something posted on social media. Those that learn from that will probably get hired again. Those that continue to partake in the same behavior that got them fired in the first place shouldn't be shocked when no on else wants to hire them.

(08-07-2017 02:06 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  Half the league is suffering through overpaying a garbage QB. Kaep is good enough for a job. NFL teams have blackballed him.

Eh, I don't necessarily think it's a blackball as much as it is a sliding scale: is he good enough to be worth the "headache"? Like I've said, if this was Kaepernick coming off of his Super Bowl season or could reasonably be slotted as even a starter on the worst teams in the league, there would be an entirely different calculation in play here (as he would have been snapped up no matter what he said in public). We've seen this sliding scale calculation many times before in the NFL and sports in general: Michael Vick, Lawrence Phillips, Adrian Peterson, etc. In that respect, the OP's Tebow comparison is somewhat valid in the sense that dealing with that type of "headache" for a backup QB is generally avoided. The average NFL team will put up with a lot of crap for a starting QB with talent, but the backups are on a short leash. If he was legitimate starting QB material, then I think it would be entirely different since there's definitely a dearth of good starting QBs in the NFL.

While I support his freedom of speech, Kaep is a legit top 20 QB but not worth the PR nightmare for these teams, hence why he's still a FA. He's probably going unsigned this year to allow his profile to dissipate before he gets another shot somewhere. I'm a Niner fan and appreciate what Kaepernick did for us on the field, but just like in any other profession, you go around in public (on tv, on the radio, all over the internet, all over public social media) crapping on the flag, crapping on police, wearing police pig socks, etc... you're going to have a difficult time keeping your job and/or getting another one. There's a reason why most companies have corporate policies emphasizing self control and privacy on social media - you represent your company when you are in public. Additionally, when you take actions that create major negative attention (no matter if its legal or not), teams do not want that type of circus because it creates distractions. That's why Ray Rice, Manziel and Kaepernick are still looking for another shot in the NFL, Tebow is a minor league Mets player, and Terrell Owens despite being the best receiver of all time other than Rice, was dropped by several teams and still shut out of the HOF. Get mad all you want, but that's facts. Colin has every right to stand up for what he believes, and owners have every right to decide not to hire him. Its not really blackballing, but more that real life isn't SJW fantasy land.

(08-07-2017 11:20 AM)Rabonchild Wrote:  Fact is the NFL has as much right to protect their product as the individual has to freedom of speak. I didn't like what happened to Tebow, others don't like what happened to Cap. The fact is the NFL is in the money making business.

Agreed.

Quote:Now on another note, no NFL team should benefit from ANY tax payer's money if the League is going to silence freedom of speech. What say you?

When did the NFL silence freedom of speech?

Kaepernick did this to himself by alienating large segments of the NFL fanbase with his actions and statements, statements that the NFL allowed him to make. The reason he's unemployed is not a case of the NFL silencing free speech, it's the direct consequences of them allowing him to speak his mind. Kaepernick would probably be in training camp with the Dolphins right now if he hadn't praised Fidel Castro, but once he did that sealed the deal that the only way he plays in Miami is on the visiting sidelines.

(08-07-2017 02:26 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  We've seen this sliding scale calculation many times before in the NFL and sports in general: Michael Vick, Lawrence Phillips, Adrian Peterson, etc. In that respect, the OP's Tebow comparison is somewhat valid in the sense that dealing with that type of "headache" for a backup QB is generally avoided.

It's a sliding scale we've also seen before, in that the NFL has greater tolerance for criminal acts (how the hell was Lawrence Phillips walking free?) than someone saying things that others find annoying. Says a great deal about us as a people: we'll cheer for someone who kills dogs for fun or beats the **** out of children with a stick, but gods forbid they talk about God or black lives.

Kap could have done what he did and not tell a soul, nobody would have known.
He hasn't had an original thought since he started dated that SJW women. All of this was her idea. She will blow through as much of his money as possible and on to the next dude. Kap's teammates, coaches, even ownership are much better mentors for him and could have helped now and when he playing days are over. Here is what his GF just did,

COLIN KAEPERNICK'S GF ROASTS RAY LEWIS & RAVENS OWNER ... WITH 'DJANGO' PIC


Think the Ravens pick him up, nope.

(08-07-2017 02:26 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(08-07-2017 02:06 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  Half the league is suffering through overpaying a garbage QB. Kaep is good enough for a job. NFL teams have blackballed him.

Eh, I don't necessarily think it's a blackball as much as it is a sliding scale: is he good enough to be worth the "headache"? Like I've said, if this was Kaepernick coming off of his Super Bowl season or could reasonably be slotted as even a starter on the worst teams in the league, there would be an entirely different calculation in play here (as he would have been snapped up no matter what he said in public). We've seen this sliding scale calculation many times before in the NFL and sports in general: Michael Vick, Lawrence Phillips, Adrian Peterson, etc. In that respect, the OP's Tebow comparison is somewhat valid in the sense that dealing with that type of "headache" for a backup QB is generally avoided. The average NFL team will put up with a lot of crap for a starting QB with talent, but the backups are on a short leash. If he was legitimate starting QB material, then I think it would be entirely different since there's definitely a dearth of good starting QBs in the NFL.

The morality and hypocrisy of the NFL is incredible. Excusing the mistakes of LT and Vick shows us how little they care. I guess they are a private enterprise, though. They have the right to blackball Kaep, I just wish they didn't take tax dollars for their new stadia.

You're not wrong, I just hate when organizations try to play both sides of the field. There is a harsher sliding scale for speaking your mind than there is for criminal behavior. That is wrong.

Kap is an idiot, the odds of getting killed by a cop are similar to being struck by lightning, even with that the Feds were already looking into his agenda, so he was getting what he wanted.

It does not help his case to sign with the Dolphins by wearing a Castro shirt, S Florida had to love that. Also, the pig socks were a hit. Plus he is washed up and a non-factor on the field.

If he was really this concerned about black lives mattering he would be in Chicago.

Heyjackass.com




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(08-07-2017 04:17 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  

(08-07-2017 02:26 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(08-07-2017 02:06 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  Half the league is suffering through overpaying a garbage QB. Kaep is good enough for a job. NFL teams have blackballed him.

Eh, I don't necessarily think it's a blackball as much as it is a sliding scale: is he good enough to be worth the "headache"? Like I've said, if this was Kaepernick coming off of his Super Bowl season or could reasonably be slotted as even a starter on the worst teams in the league, there would be an entirely different calculation in play here (as he would have been snapped up no matter what he said in public). We've seen this sliding scale calculation many times before in the NFL and sports in general: Michael Vick, Lawrence Phillips, Adrian Peterson, etc. In that respect, the OP's Tebow comparison is somewhat valid in the sense that dealing with that type of "headache" for a backup QB is generally avoided. The average NFL team will put up with a lot of crap for a starting QB with talent, but the backups are on a short leash. If he was legitimate starting QB material, then I think it would be entirely different since there's definitely a dearth of good starting QBs in the NFL.

The morality and hypocrisy of the NFL is incredible. Excusing the mistakes of LT and Vick shows us how little they care. I guess they are a private enterprise, though. They have the right to blackball Kaep, I just wish they didn't take tax dollars for their new stadia.

You're not wrong, I just hate when organizations try to play both sides of the field. There is a harsher sliding scale for speaking your mind than there is for criminal behavior. That is wrong.

I disagree w/ virtually everything in this post.

(08-07-2017 04:17 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  

(08-07-2017 02:26 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(08-07-2017 02:06 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  Half the league is suffering through overpaying a garbage QB. Kaep is good enough for a job. NFL teams have blackballed him.

Eh, I don't necessarily think it's a blackball as much as it is a sliding scale: is he good enough to be worth the "headache"? Like I've said, if this was Kaepernick coming off of his Super Bowl season or could reasonably be slotted as even a starter on the worst teams in the league, there would be an entirely different calculation in play here (as he would have been snapped up no matter what he said in public). We've seen this sliding scale calculation many times before in the NFL and sports in general: Michael Vick, Lawrence Phillips, Adrian Peterson, etc. In that respect, the OP's Tebow comparison is somewhat valid in the sense that dealing with that type of "headache" for a backup QB is generally avoided. The average NFL team will put up with a lot of crap for a starting QB with talent, but the backups are on a short leash. If he was legitimate starting QB material, then I think it would be entirely different since there's definitely a dearth of good starting QBs in the NFL.

The morality and hypocrisy of the NFL is incredible. Excusing the mistakes of LT and Vick shows us how little they care. I guess they are a private enterprise, though. They have the right to blackball Kaep, I just wish they didn't take tax dollars for their new stadia.

You're not wrong, I just hate when organizations try to play both sides of the field. There is a harsher sliding scale for speaking your mind than there is for criminal behavior. That is wrong.

Those players you mentioned - Michael Vick and Adrian Peterson - were Pro Bowl players BEFORE they got into trouble with the law. Colin Kaepernick - who has never been selected to a Pro Bowl - has a 3-16 record as an NFL starter over the past two seasons. The only success he had as a player was due to a head coach (Harbaugh) who crafted an entire offensive system around his skill-sets. Not only, by statistical standards, is Kaepernick not what is considered "elite", but he is also, again by statistical standards, a losing quarterback. Whether or not anyone likes that or not, special considerations will always be made for special talents.

Are his decisions last year affecting his current unemployment? Absolutely. It is a distraction, not to mention heavily involved with negative public relations. However, the biggest reason he is not signed is because his talent and skill-set are simply not worth the headaches and distractions he would cause an organization at this point in time - whether as a back-up (more likely) than a starter.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/27262...adquarters

I'm sure THAT will help......

Anyone wanna bet it will do more harm than good?