For what its worth here is my list of G5s that I feel operate at a P5 Level:

BYU
Cincinnati
Houston
ECU
USF
UCF
UConn
Boise St

I'd also consider San Diego St and Memphis as pretty close to making this list. Most of these schools suffer from a black ball situation, geography, or academics issue which keeps them out.

I have little doubt that had the Big 12 taken Cincinnati and Louisville when they took TCU and WVU The Bearcat program would be in much better shape and Nippert would be selling out and they'd be renting Paul Brown 1-2 times a year for opponents linke WVU, Louisville, Oklahoma, and Texas.

(08-03-2017 04:37 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  That is your opinion. In my opinion, the academies -- and their respective branches of military overall -- would be far better served by recruiting high level players and giving them a "get out of jail free card" from having to serve, if they choose.

No, it's not my opinion, their administrators are on record as being worried that theIr players would suffer critical injuries against the much bigger players of the best conferences and not be prepared for their military service after football.

Also, because of numerous reasons, including height restrictions and obvious recruiting disadvantages, they simply could not be competitive in Olympic sports in a major conference. Even having played in the Patriot League for decades, Army has never made the NCAA Tournament. Navy has fared a little better but that's because they don't have a height restriction I know of, as evidenced by them having produced David Robinson.

Finally, high level players would have to want to serve and bringing in the wrong characters kinda goes against what the academies stand for.

(08-03-2017 04:37 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Another question might be: Who's in the P5 that doesn't belong there?

That's not a valid question. They're grandfathered in. Anyone who doesn't belong will be pushed out or left behind, a La the SWC and Temple football. It's like asking who doesn't deserve to live in the United States. If you were born here or have the proper paperwork, you belong.

(08-03-2017 04:52 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  OK, at least we now know what the bias is and why you added them to your list.

UNM is a total non starter for P5 expansion. Total and complete non starter, but carry on.

LOL, he redshirted and never played. My bias would be toward Kentucky, where he played. Anyways, UNM has pretty much everything in place. Switch New Mexico and Iowa on the map and UNM would be in the Big Ten. Like most of the WAC schools, they are a victim of geography. They and BYU both deserve spots in major conferences, just like Utah. Maybe Colorado State and Hawai'i as well.

65 is not enough, 75 to 80 would work
SEC & B-10 both want VA & NC, thier not leaving the ACC
i could see B-10 graping Conn & Kansas if NYC is not working out for them
ND has ACC in bind in regards to expanding
the only way Pac-12 gets into Tex is Hous [south div] & Hawaii gives them extra games [north div]
gives both div an outlier
Tex & Okla are not leaving B-12, must expand to gain markets for TV contract
8 schools & B-12 market would rival the B-10
there would be preance in entire moutain & Pacfic time zones,
NYC & state of NY, Fla & 3 midwestern Metro areas
BYU, Conn, Cin, UCF, USF, Memphis, Temple, Buffalo & WV would be north div

65 has roughly been the number since the creation of the BCS (62+ Notre Dame was the original number). Out goes Temple, in goes Utah, TCU and Louisville. Other than brief appearances by USF and Cincinnati, everyone else has stayed constant, granted some conference switching has happened.

There were 6 conf, they were smaller,
i don't believe B-12 implodes, Tex is not playing 2nd fiddle to anybody
conf are getting paid thru P5 games & conf networks
whether its TV, research or recuriting for students
Pac-12 has to get into Tex
B-12 has to enlarge thier footprint

(08-03-2017 04:52 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(08-03-2017 02:55 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(08-03-2017 02:06 PM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(08-03-2017 01:45 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  New Mexico is a state flagship with some decent resources.

Have you ever seen the UNM campus?

I wouldn't call it a dump but it compares to the richer and/or larger high school districts in Texas instead of a P5 school.

Small and nice for its size but far from something just waiting to turn the "corner" so to speak.

I think the Berry Center in Cypress is bigger than their stadium. At least it looked like it when I saw it this past March.

Edit: Looking it up though Berry seats 11k and UNM seats 39k. I just wasn't impressed by it but that's just me..... Seems much smaller than the 39k advertised.

UNM Stadium



Berry Center



Now their basketball area looked nice from what I saw but I didn't get a chance to go in. That said if basketball in a flyover state pulled the strings many other schools would be on the list.

Seeing how my brother was on the UNM football team and I've been in/near the stadium, yes I've been to and am familiar with Loboland. The football stadium definitely leaves something to be desired for an aspiring program but otherwise UNM has all the ingredients of a P5 program. They just happen to be in the wrong part of the country, if they were in the Pacific West or Midwest, they'd be P5.

OK, at least we now know what the bias is and why you added them to your list.

UNM is a total non starter for P5 expansion. Total and complete non starter, but carry on.

I have several universities that are my "customers"...I'm a vendor and Travel around from Texas to California. Whoever said that nonsense about UNM...please tell me you've been to New Mexico? I've been there many times. I was there this year. They are a good customer of mine. They have nice facilities.
Honestly, have you ever been to their football stadium or to the Pit? Or are you just saying that because you don't like them for whatever reason? Just curious as to why you'd say that.

ECU-ACC
BYU-Big 12
Uconn-ACC
New Mexico-PAC/Big 12
Colorado St-PAC/Big 12
Houston-Big 12
Memphis-Big 12
Cincinnati-Big 12/ACC
Hawaii-PAC

Why would ECU be in the ACC? They hardly have a lack of schools to the north, south and west of them, including 4 in North Carolina and 3 within 100 or so miles. They'd either be in the Big 12 or SEC.

I'd start with the 4 that have left the club since '95: Temple, Houston, SMU and Rice. Of those 4, Houston could probably fit in well (again) in the Big 12. I'm not so sure about SMU or RIce.

Temple is an enigma -- no offense to the Owl alumni/fans here. They've resurrected their football program from near death in the 2005 timeframe and are competitive once again. If Philly can really get behind them, and they have good attendance numbers in years when PSU or ND isn't on the home schedule, they could fit in if the ACC would have them.

More likely case is that the American really does become a true tweener conference and the 12 schools there remain just a cut below the P's and just above the Gs.

Rice has all the tools...they need to make an effort to move up or down. Languishing as okay in C-USA is mindboggling. They should suck in the SEC or Big 12 and maybe dominate the Southland, MVC, or OVC.

The title of this thread could just as easily be "Who is in the P5 and doesn't belong there?"

I apologize for the arrogance in this thread from some of my P5 brethren. Many follow programs grandfathered into leagues that they couldn't earn their way in today if they had to.

The line between the best programs in The AAC or The MWC and competitive programs in the P5 are razor thin. Everyone in college football knows it.

Getting into the P5 club is as much a matter of luck as performance. TCU gives its notice to The MWC to join The Big East and spot opens in The Big 12. Louisville gives its notice early to leave The Big East without a conference home and a spot opens in The ACC.

No one knows what the future holds. The P5 may soon be The P4. All those not presently in the club can do is just be ready when opportunity knocks.

Good luck to all your teams this season. Thank goodness the season kick-off three weeks from Saturday.
CJ

It's about luck, timing and connections. Being good for a really long time doesn't guarantee anything either.

It's a chaotic game of musical chairs.

(08-03-2017 08:33 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Why would ECU be in the ACC? They hardly have a lack of schools to the north, south and west of them, including 4 in North Carolina and 3 within 100 or so miles. They'd either be in the Big 12 or SEC.

Because that's where I want them. Look, it was obviously a homer pick on a hypothetical that'll never happen and I'd rather ECU get in the ACC because ECU could win there, and has the ACC 4, VT, Louisville--schools that ECU has history with. The SEC would be hard as heck to have a winning record in and the Big 12 with Iowa St, Kansas St, Baylor and Texas Tech makes absolutely 0 sense for ECU. West Virginia is really the only school that ECU has any history with.

There's always college football on PS4.

UC San Diego

(08-03-2017 08:39 PM)megadrone Wrote:  I'd start with the 4 that have left the club since '95: Temple, Houston, SMU and Rice. Of those 4, Houston could probably fit in well (again) in the Big 12. I'm not so sure about SMU or RIce.

Temple is an enigma -- no offense to the Owl alumni/fans here. They've resurrected their football program from near death in the 2005 timeframe and are competitive once again. If Philly can really get behind them, and they have good attendance numbers in years when PSU or ND isn't on the home schedule, they could fit in if the ACC would have them.

Including Houston, SMU, and Rice in the dying years of the SWC is a bit of a stretch as a "power conference". The PAC and Big10 weren't part of the BCA. The SWC was irrelevant in the 3 years the BCA existed. Why exclude UConn and Cincy? They were a power conference in the BCS, which included the PAC and B10. The latter was in an AQ "power" conference more than twice as long as any of the SWC Texas schools.

Temple will never be in the ACC.

(08-03-2017 04:49 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(08-03-2017 03:59 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(08-03-2017 03:05 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  That and they are a P5 school, playing in the ACC, even to a large degree in football.

P5 is a football term. They aren't in one of the 5 Power 5 conferences in football.

Yes, they have a scheduling agreement in football, and that's close to a membership, but close counts in hand grenades and horse shoes.

Jesus Christ, why am I still going back and forth? Save all that energy for useless debate by going to law school and being a lawyer.

You're going back and forth because you're arguing that Notre Dame is in a "Power 5" conference in football when they're actually independent. You're objectively factually wrong. I'll gladly post the ACC's football standings from any year that you want, and Notre Dame won't be there.

And I'll remind you that YOU started the "useless debate" by asking "which schools belong in a P5 conference that aren't already there," and then by arguing that Notre Dame was a P5 school.

(08-03-2017 03:15 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(08-03-2017 03:05 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  That and they are a P5 school, playing in the ACC, even to a large degree in football.

On this point, I agree with you. Notre Dame is absolutely a P5 school both formally and informally. They are formally part of the power structure along with the rest of the P5 in managing the CFP system, they have a contract bowl arrangement with the Orange Bowl unlike the G5, they are part of the "high resource" group of schools under the NCAA that matches the membership of the P5, and all of their non-football sports are in a P5 conference. P5 = "power school", and Notre Dame is arguably the most powerful school of them all. ND isn't in a conference for football because it chooses not to be -- every single P5 league would add them as a full member without even blinking. That's quite different than the G5 schools and other independents, who can't get an invite no matter how hard they try.

That's just it. The question and term was "P5," not "P5 plus strong independent." In fact, the question implicitly excluded strong non-Power 5 schools from being grouped into the P5 structure by asking which strong schools should be part of those "Power" conferences.

As you noted, ND is independent. As such, Irish are not a member of any P5 conference. However, they probably have standing offers from all 5 "Power Conferences" due to their history, money, influence, and prestige. Additionally, I feel that ND's special treatment is ridiculous, and I don't think that it should continue. Therefore, I think that ND should be in the P5, even though they are currently not in the P5.

Some may feel that ND's special treatment is warranted. In which case, you can reasonably disagree w/ me. Others may feel that ND doesn't deserve to be in the ACC, B1G, SEC, Big XII, or Pac 12 in football. Those people could theoretically reasonably disagree w/ me by coming up w/ an argument as to why the Irish don't belong in any of those conferences, but I think that they would have a very uphill battle. However, you can't reasonably argue that ND, as an Indy, is part of the 5 Power Conferences in football. By definition, as an independent, they aren't.