BYU (obviously)
UConn
New Mexico
Boise (Big 12 only)
Houston
Memphis
Cincinnati
UCF
ECU (football-only)

(08-03-2017 04:38 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  BYU (obviously)
UConn
New Mexico
Boise (Big 12 only)
Houston
Memphis
Cincinnati
UCF
ECU (football-only)

None of the above.

BYU belongs more than half the ACC.

Based on average home attendance, there are only 3 teams in the top 50 which are not already in a P5 conference for football:

9. Notre Dame (avg: 80,795)
24. Brigham Young (avg: 58,569)
49. East Carolina (avg: 44,113)

You start to see a few more G5 teams in the 54 to 63 range - but those average 40,000 or less.

Notre Dame is already in a P5 conference except a full schedule in one sport.

And besides who cares about attendance, look at teams in the ACC's average like Wake, Duke and BC.

P5 is like a club or a fraternity. All you need is that one black ball when all the balls are counted to keep you out.

BYU - if it was only about attendence, or football history, they would be in already. But cultural reasons keep them out.

Uconn - strong basketball brand, decent academics, no other P5 program in state with decent population. Not a strong football history without a strong following. Not great football attendence but not awful. Add it up, they would be a good fit for the ACC. Probably should be in P5.

New Mexico - good basketball, decent academics. No other P5 in the state. Low but growing population. Awful football program. Football is the main thing holding New Mexico back from being a P5.

Boise - academics is the main thing keeeping BSU from being a P5.

Houston - decent enough sports history and academics, although football attendence and fanbase is not great. Main problem is the state of Texas already has 5 P5 teams.

Memphis - good basketball, but football was down until recently. It does not help that Tennesse already has 2 P5 teams, and NFL, NBA znd NHL teams. But ultimately academics are keeping Memphis out.

Cincy - decent basketball. Decent academics. Not great football attendence. Have to share Ohio with OSU, which meams it will never join Big Ten. And share the city with the Bengals and Reds. Good candidate for ACC or Big 12.

UCF & USF - big schools in high population state. But both are fairly new FBS programs. Alumni base will grow over the years, which means their case will grow over time. Probably locked out of SEC and ACC because existing P5 schools in the state of Florida. Good candidates for Big 12. Just too new to FBS to join the P5 right now.

ECU -academics, geography will keep ECU out of the P5.

(08-03-2017 04:54 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-03-2017 04:38 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  BYU (obviously)
UConn
New Mexico
Boise (Big 12 only)
Houston
Memphis
Cincinnati
UCF
ECU (football-only)

None of the above.

This. The G5 is the right spot for all of them.

Colorado State?
UNLV?
Maybe Tulane?

(08-03-2017 09:01 AM)PlayBall! Wrote:  Colorado State?
UNLV?
Maybe Tulane?

I'd put Rice before Tulane but they have to show some kind of effort.

UNLV doesn't have the academics. They're not even good at their flagship sport anymore.

Colorado State? Maybe...my issue is that the market may be tapped out, Colorado isn't even overly popular in Colorado, for a state flagship anyways.

(08-03-2017 04:54 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-03-2017 04:38 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  BYU (obviously)
UConn
New Mexico
Boise (Big 12 only)
Houston
Memphis
Cincinnati
UCF
ECU (football-only)

None of the above.

(08-03-2017 07:03 AM)goofus Wrote:  P5 is like a club or a fraternity. All you need is that one black ball when all the balls are counted to keep you out.

BYU - if it was only about attendence, or football history, they would be in already. But cultural reasons keep them out.

Uconn - strong basketball brand, decent academics, no other P5 program in state with decent population. Not a strong football history without a strong following. Not great football attendence but not awful. Add it up, they would be a good fit for the ACC. Probably should be in P5.

New Mexico - good basketball, decent academics. No other P5 in the state. Low but growing population. Awful football program. Football is the main thing holding New Mexico back from being a P5.

Boise - academics is the main thing keeeping BSU from being a P5.

Houston - decent enough sports history and academics, although football attendence and fanbase is not great. Main problem is the state of Texas already has 5 P5 teams.

Memphis - good basketball, but football was down until recently. It does not help that Tennesse already has 2 P5 teams, and NFL, NBA znd NHL teams. But ultimately academics are keeping Memphis out.

Cincy - decent basketball. Decent academics. Not great football attendence. Have to share Ohio with OSU, which meams it will never join Big Ten. And share the city with the Bengals and Reds. Good candidate for ACC or Big 12.

UCF & USF - big schools in high population state. But both are fairly new FBS programs. Alumni base will grow over the years, which means their case will grow over time. Probably locked out of SEC and ACC because existing P5 schools in the state of Florida. Good candidates for Big 12. Just too new to FBS to join the P5 right now.

ECU -academics, geography will keep ECU out of the P5.

Not to nit-pick, but to advocate for my alma mater Cincinnati basketball is much better than just decent. We are the 15th most winningest program of all time with 2 national titles and numerous Final Fours. We have the 10th most appearances in the Associated Press Poll in all of college basketball.

FWIW, we're in the process of building a new state of the art on campus arena that is going to knock your socks off.

Cue Todge rant in 3....2.....1.....

So are you just judged on whatever your FB attendance is? Just wondering. Some folks forget it is more than just FB attendance.

(08-03-2017 04:38 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  BYU (obviously)
UConn
New Mexico
Boise (Big 12 only)
Houston
Memphis
Cincinnati
UCF
ECU (football-only)

You omitted USF but added New Mexico, Memphis, and ECU? LOLOL.

OK. New Mexico over 21st ranked USF Football (and by the way, the current #1 in the G5 in football recruiting - tied with Houston, good for #28 nationally).

(08-03-2017 07:03 AM)goofus Wrote:  P5 is like a club or a fraternity. All you need is that one black ball when all the balls are counted to keep you out.

BYU - if it was only about attendence, or football history, they would be in already. But cultural reasons keep them out.

Uconn - strong basketball brand, decent academics, no other P5 program in state with decent population. Not a strong football history without a strong following. Not great football attendence but not awful. Add it up, they would be a good fit for the ACC. Probably should be in P5.

New Mexico - good basketball, decent academics. No other P5 in the state. Low but growing population. Awful football program. Football is the main thing holding New Mexico back from being a P5.

Boise - academics is the main thing keeeping BSU from being a P5.

Houston - decent enough sports history and academics, although football attendence and fanbase is not great. Main problem is the state of Texas already has 5 P5 teams.

Memphis - good basketball, but football was down until recently. It does not help that Tennesse already has 2 P5 teams, and NFL, NBA znd NHL teams. But ultimately academics are keeping Memphis out.

Cincy - decent basketball. Decent academics. Not great football attendence. Have to share Ohio with OSU, which meams it will never join Big Ten. And share the city with the Bengals and Reds. Good candidate for ACC or Big 12.

UCF & USF - big schools in high population state. But both are fairly new FBS programs. Alumni base will grow over the years, which means their case will grow over time. Probably locked out of SEC and ACC because existing P5 schools in the state of Florida. Good candidates for Big 12. Just too new to FBS to join the P5 right now.

ECU -academics, geography will keep ECU out of the P5.

USF was already IN the power league structure for almost a decade. So no, both are not too new.

(08-03-2017 09:30 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(08-03-2017 07:03 AM)goofus Wrote:  P5 is like a club or a fraternity. All you need is that one black ball when all the balls are counted to keep you out.

BYU - if it was only about attendence, or football history, they would be in already. But cultural reasons keep them out.

Uconn - strong basketball brand, decent academics, no other P5 program in state with decent population. Not a strong football history without a strong following. Not great football attendence but not awful. Add it up, they would be a good fit for the ACC. Probably should be in P5.

New Mexico - good basketball, decent academics. No other P5 in the state. Low but growing population. Awful football program. Football is the main thing holding New Mexico back from being a P5.

Boise - academics is the main thing keeeping BSU from being a P5.

Houston - decent enough sports history and academics, although football attendence and fanbase is not great. Main problem is the state of Texas already has 5 P5 teams.

Memphis - good basketball, but football was down until recently. It does not help that Tennesse already has 2 P5 teams, and NFL, NBA znd NHL teams. But ultimately academics are keeping Memphis out.

Cincy - decent basketball. Decent academics. Not great football attendence. Have to share Ohio with OSU, which meams it will never join Big Ten. And share the city with the Bengals and Reds. Good candidate for ACC or Big 12.

UCF & USF - big schools in high population state. But both are fairly new FBS programs. Alumni base will grow over the years, which means their case will grow over time. Probably locked out of SEC and ACC because existing P5 schools in the state of Florida. Good candidates for Big 12. Just too new to FBS to join the P5 right now.

ECU -academics, geography will keep ECU out of the P5.

Not to nit-pick, but to advocate for my alma mater Cincinnati basketball is much better than just decent. We are the 15th most winningest program of all time with 2 national titles and numerous Final Fours. We have the 10th most appearances in the Associated Press Poll in all of college basketball.

FWIW, we're in the process of building a new state of the art on campus arena that is going to knock your socks off.

For ECU geography hurts for ACC but helps for a conference like the SEC who would like to get into the NC market.

Academics will not be an issue we have a Medical School, Dental School, Engineering School, Business School, and much more. Our US News rankings will soon be Tier 1 and in the 180s and will continue to grow.

...wait...hold my beer...

(08-03-2017 11:01 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  So are you just judged on whatever your FB attendance is? Just wondering. Some folks forget it is more than just FB attendance.

Yeah, I think that is really overplayed on the internet. If it were a factor ECU would have been invited to the conference by the Big East back in the early 90s or anytime thereafter. In fact, to confirm it means very little they were one of the last schools invited as an all-sports member after the second raid (prior to the later addition of Tulsa and now Wichita State). BYU would have been taken by somebody as well, in spite of any opposition to their religious mission.

(08-03-2017 05:48 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Notre Dame is already in a P5 conference except a full schedule in one sport.

And Notre Dame has a full, equal ownership share of the CFP, the same as the Big Ten, ACC, SEC, Big 12, and PAC. And since the CFP is what coined the terms P5 and G5 in the first place, I think it is without question that Notre Dame is in the P5.


The only easy answer to this, in terms of football program, is BYU.

Why the Mormons chose to settle in Utah, I don't know that history and probably won't take the time to look it up. But that is the reason that BYU is not in the P5. Its football program is every bit as good as Utah's, yet Utah got a golden ticket to the P5 while BYU will never, ever be invited to the PAC. If the Mormans had simply decide to settle in San Antonio ... BYU would've been in the Big 12 some time ago.

If you look at the last round of realignment, we saw Utah and TCU make the "leap" from the MWC into power conferences. Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Louisville, West Virginia and Rutgers all made "jumps" from a failing power conference (Big East) into another one. Texas A&M, Missouri, Nebraska and Colorado, similarly, made "jumps", but their prior power conference still remained a power conference (Big 12). San Diego State and Boise State made attempted "jumps" but pulled back when the power status of the Big East Football/American Conference was removed.

In the 2005 cycle, Cincinnati, Louisville and USF made "leaps" into the Big East - then what was considered an AQ, or power conference.

In essence, if you look at the figures, only 2-3 programs - maybe - end up getting "called-up". IMO, the realistic candidates are as follows:

UConn - State flagship. Solid academics. Elite basketball program. NYC presence. If Edsall can get football back to being just competitive (not even elite in the AAC), their stock goes up considerably - and they are, arguably, one of the top choices at the moment. While their Northeast location limits options (No PAC or SEC), it will be continued to be mentioned in connection with the ACC, Big 12 and - to a lesser extent - B1G.

Cincinnati - Ohio market. Strong football. Strong basketball. Strong Academics. They have also shown willingness to invest heavily into athletics. B1G will never be an option, but the Big 12 and ACC will be (long-term).

Houston - Athletics has really turned around in recent years, due to large financial commitments to football and basketball. The Big 12, ACC and PAC are possible power conferences that could want the Houston market, which also has strong academics. Unfortunately, politics have kept them out.

Other realistic candidates:
BYU
Colorado State
Memphis
New Mexico
San Diego State
UCF
USF