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Possible Access Bowl Change: NY6 Bowl Spot To Champion of Highest Rated Conference
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DocAllentown Offline
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Post: #1
Possible Access Bowl Change: NY6 Bowl Spot To Champion of Highest Rated Conference
I wouldn't be surprised if collective conference strength becomes the sole focus of the access bowl selection in the future. The Champion of the most difficult conference gauntlet should get that slot every time. That would create real competition That's really the only good way to gauge one resume versus another. A conference should be rewarded for their investments and achievements.
Theoretically, a Sunbelt team can get that spot if they get hot - and that's just absurd in its current condition. If you have one conference allocating more of their resources to one team versus the group, that shouldn't be rewarded either.
I agree with a recent quote by Baylor coach Matt Rhule. Temple should have gotten that slot last year, considering their own resume as well as the resumes within the conference.
https://twitter.com/Joseph_Duarte/status...2395004929
(This post was last modified: 08-02-2017 01:50 AM by DocAllentown.)
08-02-2017 01:32 AM
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TodgeRodge Offline
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RE: Possible Access Bowl Change: NY6 Bowl Spot To Champion of Highest Rated Conference
Temple deserved exactly what they got

8 of their 10 wins were against teams with losing records and several of them were terrible

they lost to two 8-5 teams and 11-3 Penn State

they beat one team that finished the season ranked and two teams total with winning records and they lost (not that close either) to a 7-6 Wake Forest

no one with an ounce of brain matter would think that is a team that has the right to demand anything other than what they got
08-02-2017 02:35 AM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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RE: Possible Access Bowl Change: NY6 Bowl Spot To Champion of Highest Rated Conference
(08-02-2017 01:32 AM)DocAllentown Wrote:  I agree with a recent quote by Baylor coach Matt Rhule. Temple should have gotten that slot last year
lol
08-02-2017 02:41 AM
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ark30inf Offline
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RE: Possible Access Bowl Change: NY6 Bowl Spot To Champion of Highest Rated Conference
That would be stoopid.



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08-02-2017 07:39 AM
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Side Show Joe Offline
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RE: Possible Access Bowl Change: NY6 Bowl Spot To Champion of Highest Rated Conference
(08-02-2017 01:32 AM)DocAllentown Wrote:  I wouldn't be surprised if collective conference strength becomes the sole focus of the access bowl selection in the future. The Champion of the most difficult conference gauntlet should get that slot every time. That would create real competition That's really the only good way to gauge one resume versus another. A conference should be rewarded for their investments and achievements.
Theoretically, a Sunbelt team can get that spot if they get hot - and that's just absurd in its current condition. If you have one conference allocating more of their resources to one team versus the group, that shouldn't be rewarded either.
I agree with a recent quote by Baylor coach Matt Rhule. Temple should have gotten that slot last year, considering their own resume as well as the resumes within the conference.
https://twitter.com/Joseph_Duarte/status...2395004929

Ha! Temple was not worthy of the access bowl. The current system is the better option. Just go out and win your games like the rest of the G5s.
08-02-2017 08:00 AM
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Hokie Mark Online
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RE: Possible Access Bowl Change: NY6 Bowl Spot To Champion of Highest Rated Conference
Conference strength needs to be a big factor - but I thought it already was?

I have believed for some time now that losses should be irrelevant... what should matter are wins (i.e. who did you really beat)
08-02-2017 09:14 AM
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megadrone Offline
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RE: Possible Access Bowl Change: NY6 Bowl Spot To Champion of Highest Rated Conference
It's factored in, and very possibly Houston with one loss could have leapfrogged WMU last year.

Temple won a lot of games and won the weaker division of the AAC and were conference champions. But they weren't one of the top 12 teams in the country. The current system should prevent bad teams from sneaking in.
08-02-2017 09:20 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: Possible Access Bowl Change: NY6 Bowl Spot To Champion of Highest Rated Conference
(08-02-2017 09:14 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Conference strength needs to be a big factor - but I thought it already was?

I have believed for some time now that losses should be irrelevant... what should matter are wins (i.e. who did you really beat)

Losses are and always will be the most important factor in determining who gets what. Was that way in the historical poll and bowl system, was during the BCS era, and is now. You can beat Alabama, Oklahoma, Clemson, and USC, but if you finish 7-5 you aren't going to be ranked ahead of a team that went 12-0 against a much softer schedule.

And for good reason - hard to explain away those losses.
08-02-2017 09:21 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: Possible Access Bowl Change: NY6 Bowl Spot To Champion of Highest Rated Conference
(08-02-2017 01:32 AM)DocAllentown Wrote:  I wouldn't be surprised if collective conference strength becomes the sole focus of the access bowl selection in the future. The Champion of the most difficult conference gauntlet should get that slot every time. That would create real competition That's really the only good way to gauge one resume versus another. A conference should be rewarded for their investments and achievements.

A brand new coach at one P5 school, which by definition has nothing to do with the NY6 Access slot for G5 schools, thinks Temple should have gotten the NY6 slot last year - and oh, btw, he was the coach of that Temple team! - and you think that this qualifies as support for a "possible change" in the Access slot?

03-lmfao
08-02-2017 09:23 AM
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RE: Possible Access Bowl Change: NY6 Bowl Spot To Champion of Highest Rated Conference
So under the "best conference system" which is going to magically be approved by CUSA, Sun Belt, and MAC, an AAC divisional champion who lost to a team from CUSA, Sun Belt, MAC, and MWC but prevails in the AAC title game gets the NY6 slot over a champion from the unworthy conference that ran the table?

Yeah not only is that a non-starter, TV viewers are going to be eager to tune in and watch that lame fest.

A conference of 12 good teams with no stinkers but no team good enough to win any other conference can "win the math" and be the Access Bowl team.

Uh no one outside AAC is buying a ticket for that train.
08-02-2017 09:52 AM
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Hokie Mark Online
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RE: Possible Access Bowl Change: NY6 Bowl Spot To Champion of Highest Rated Conference
(08-02-2017 09:21 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(08-02-2017 09:14 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Conference strength needs to be a big factor - but I thought it already was?

I have believed for some time now that losses should be irrelevant... what should matter are wins (i.e. who did you really beat)

Losses are and always will be the most important factor in determining who gets what. Was that way in the historical poll and bowl system, was during the BCS era, and is now. You can beat Alabama, Oklahoma, Clemson, and USC, but if you finish 7-5 you aren't going to be ranked ahead of a team that went 12-0 against a much softer schedule.

And for good reason - hard to explain away those losses.

Whoa, wait a minute! You're tell me that a team which, for the sake of argument, beat Alabama, Florida State, Ohio State, and Penn State, while losing to Clemson, Oklahoma, and Southern California is NOT better than a team that went 12-0 but never beat a single ranked opponent? (I know, I'm proposing 9-3 vs. 12-0... I agree, 5 losses is a LOT).

In my opinion, that focus on losses is exactly what was WRONG with the poll system (and to a lesser extent, the BCS system also). If you play a tough schedule you should get the benefit of the doubt when you lose occassionally - particularly if you beat more than half of those "tough" teams. Non-conference opponents which are ranked should be weighted even more (as a way to gauge relative strength of conferences). Anyway, that's my opinion - I wonder if most people agree with me or with you?
08-02-2017 10:06 AM
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Attackcoog Offline
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RE: Possible Access Bowl Change: NY6 Bowl Spot To Champion of Highest Rated Conference
The key is building up the TV audience and attendance of AAC teams to the point that a NYD bowl is interested in hosting the AAC champ every year. If the Bowl and networks want it, then the AAC will get a guaranteed slot on NYD in the next CFP deal. If no major bowls are interested and no major network wants to ante up---then it won't happen. Simple as that.
08-02-2017 10:09 AM
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Attackcoog Offline
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RE: Possible Access Bowl Change: NY6 Bowl Spot To Champion of Highest Rated Conference
(08-02-2017 09:21 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(08-02-2017 09:14 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Conference strength needs to be a big factor - but I thought it already was?

I have believed for some time now that losses should be irrelevant... what should matter are wins (i.e. who did you really beat)

Losses are and always will be the most important factor in determining who gets what. Was that way in the historical poll and bowl system, was during the BCS era, and is now. You can beat Alabama, Oklahoma, Clemson, and USC, but if you finish 7-5 you aren't going to be ranked ahead of a team that went 12-0 against a much softer schedule.

And for good reason - hard to explain away those losses.

Guess that's why a 4 loss team appeared in front of an undefeated team in the CFP poll. Truth is--I actually agree with you---I just thought is was interesting to point out just how rigged the beauty contest is. 04-cheers
(This post was last modified: 08-02-2017 10:13 AM by Attackcoog.)
08-02-2017 10:11 AM
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ark30inf Offline
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RE: Possible Access Bowl Change: NY6 Bowl Spot To Champion of Highest Rated Conference
We need the Doosh Bowl on New Years Day. The two conferences with the most self-absorbed preening fanbases get the bids.

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08-02-2017 10:15 AM
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MWC Tex Offline
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RE: Possible Access Bowl Change: NY6 Bowl Spot To Champion of Highest Rated Conference
Conference strength is already a major factor which is why Temple was ranked even with 3 losses. However, an undefeated G5 champ from the weakest conference that beats 4 ranked P5 schools in the OOC will always be the overriding factor. The OOC games make up for the lack of conference strength.
08-02-2017 10:47 AM
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RE: Possible Access Bowl Change: NY6 Bowl Spot To Champion of Highest Rated Conference
Not a fan of what I'm reading. If the committee thinks the conference is too weak than don't rank it's champion so high
08-02-2017 10:49 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: Possible Access Bowl Change: NY6 Bowl Spot To Champion of Highest Rated Conference
(08-02-2017 10:06 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(08-02-2017 09:21 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(08-02-2017 09:14 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Conference strength needs to be a big factor - but I thought it already was?

I have believed for some time now that losses should be irrelevant... what should matter are wins (i.e. who did you really beat)

Losses are and always will be the most important factor in determining who gets what. Was that way in the historical poll and bowl system, was during the BCS era, and is now. You can beat Alabama, Oklahoma, Clemson, and USC, but if you finish 7-5 you aren't going to be ranked ahead of a team that went 12-0 against a much softer schedule.

And for good reason - hard to explain away those losses.

Whoa, wait a minute! You're tell me that a team which, for the sake of argument, beat Alabama, Florida State, Ohio State, and Penn State, while losing to Clemson, Oklahoma, and Southern California is NOT better than a team that went 12-0 but never beat a single ranked opponent?

I didn't say anything about who the 5 losses were against, IMO they just don't matter, 5 losses is 5 losses, and no amount of wins over top teams is going to miracle you past a team with far fewer losses.

Obviously, losses aren't the only thing that matter, nor should they be. SOS should count greatly, and i think it clearly does. You yourself said so at the start of your last post, you said something like "I though conference strength already counted", and it clearly does: All else equal, if team A wins a tough conference and B a weaker one, A is going to be ranked higher, get the playoff bid, etc.
(This post was last modified: 08-02-2017 10:59 AM by quo vadis.)
08-02-2017 10:58 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: Possible Access Bowl Change: NY6 Bowl Spot To Champion of Highest Rated Conference
(08-02-2017 10:11 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(08-02-2017 09:21 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(08-02-2017 09:14 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Conference strength needs to be a big factor - but I thought it already was?

I have believed for some time now that losses should be irrelevant... what should matter are wins (i.e. who did you really beat)

Losses are and always will be the most important factor in determining who gets what. Was that way in the historical poll and bowl system, was during the BCS era, and is now. You can beat Alabama, Oklahoma, Clemson, and USC, but if you finish 7-5 you aren't going to be ranked ahead of a team that went 12-0 against a much softer schedule.

And for good reason - hard to explain away those losses.

Guess that's why a 4 loss team appeared in front of an undefeated team in the CFP poll. Truth is--I actually agree with you---I just thought is was interesting to point out just how rigged the beauty contest is. 04-cheers

There's a reason i picked 5 losses in my example, not 4. :)

But that said, surely there is a limit here, and it's basically categorical: Losses matter within a category, not outside of it. E.g., an FBS team that is 4-8 would hypothetically surely be ranked ahead of a Division II team that went 12-0, because FBS is considered categorically superior to Division II.

The problem the G5 have in making the CFP playoffs is that to a significant extent, the P5/G5 division is regarded by many, arguably most, decision makers as essentially categorical. Not to the extreme of the FBS/II example above, but it's probably worth at least 2 losses, minimum.

E.g., if AAC champ Memphis is 12-0, how many losses does SEC champ Alabama have to have to be ranked below them? I'd say 2 minimum, probably 3. Maybe even 4. And the AAC is generally the most highly-regarded G5, it would be worse for the Sun Belt champ.

The only G5 that can overcome that is a G5 that has wins over HIGHLY ranked P5. Not just any P5. That's what made Houston last year so tragic. Houston's schedule put them in a unique position, had they run the table they probably make the playoffs. But no G5 is likely to have that kind of schedule, with not one but two top-ranked P5 teams, again.
(This post was last modified: 08-02-2017 11:09 AM by quo vadis.)
08-02-2017 11:04 AM
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Eldonabe Offline
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RE: Possible Access Bowl Change: NY6 Bowl Spot To Champion of Highest Rated Conference
You all need to stop angling for an answer that best serves YOUR team/conference.

The (over simplistic) bottom line is go win your games. If an AAC team goes 12-0 or even 11-1 they WILL be in an NY6 game if not the the championship tournament. Until the system allows the top 20 teams to all play each other in the same season, subjectivity will always be part of the equation - SO GET OVER IT!

Did Penn State get phucked over last year - arguably yes - win another game and they are in the final 4..... As soon as you leave doubt (a loss) you expose yourself to exclusion. That part of the system will NEVER EVER change.
08-02-2017 11:21 AM
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RE: Possible Access Bowl Change: NY6 Bowl Spot To Champion of Highest Rated Conference
Dumb idea. Why should a champion of the highest-ranked G5 conference with no quality OOC wins and one or two bad OOC losses get into the Access Bowl ahead of a champion of the second-highest-ranked G5 conference with multiple quality OOC wins and no bad OOC losses?

The best G5 team based on its full body of work over the season should get the slot, regardless of conference affiliation.
08-02-2017 11:33 AM
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