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Another baseball de-commitment
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Owl1998 Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Another baseball de-commitment
(08-01-2017 05:43 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 05:17 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 03:17 PM)TJS_NYC Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 01:44 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  Graham needs to be fired if he refuses to cooperate. You can still get a quality HC at this juncture. See Cannizzaro/MSU

I strongly doubt that cooperation is an issue.

I don't... he's stated he wants to be extended. Makes it hard to bring in a head coach in waiting that will takeover after next year.

That's not a 'hc in waiting'... It's a lame duck current HC and a guy on the bench who can still leave you high and dry... and everyone puts a target on you to do just that.

You extend Wayne and name a successor/Associate Head Coach or whatever... and if Wayne keeps doing well and wants to keep going and the guy gets tired of waiting, you hire another successor. If Wayne doesn't want to stay and/or fails, you reassign him within the department and elevate the other guy.

That's how 'real' programs do it.... and Wayne's earned every dime for every sport on campus of whatever he wants to be reassigned to for however many years that is.

Totally agree with this....but it needs to be done YESTERDAY.
08-01-2017 06:11 PM
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waltgreenberg Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Another baseball de-commitment
(08-01-2017 06:11 PM)Owl1998 Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 05:43 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 05:17 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 03:17 PM)TJS_NYC Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 01:44 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  Graham needs to be fired if he refuses to cooperate. You can still get a quality HC at this juncture. See Cannizzaro/MSU

I strongly doubt that cooperation is an issue.

I don't... he's stated he wants to be extended. Makes it hard to bring in a head coach in waiting that will takeover after next year.

That's not a 'hc in waiting'... It's a lame duck current HC and a guy on the bench who can still leave you high and dry... and everyone puts a target on you to do just that.

You extend Wayne and name a successor/Associate Head Coach or whatever... and if Wayne keeps doing well and wants to keep going and the guy gets tired of waiting, you hire another successor. If Wayne doesn't want to stay and/or fails, you reassign him within the department and elevate the other guy.

That's how 'real' programs do it.... and Wayne's earned every dime for every sport on campus of whatever he wants to be reassigned to for however many years that is.

Totally agree with this....but it needs to be done YESTERDAY.

Agreed. Unfortunately, I just received an e-mail from an Rice sports insider (and old timer) who said he had just heard that no announcement would be made until players and students return to campus later this month. One can only hope this info is not accurate.
08-01-2017 07:28 PM
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Owl1998 Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Another baseball de-commitment
(08-01-2017 07:28 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 06:11 PM)Owl1998 Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 05:43 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 05:17 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 03:17 PM)TJS_NYC Wrote:  I strongly doubt that cooperation is an issue.

I don't... he's stated he wants to be extended. Makes it hard to bring in a head coach in waiting that will takeover after next year.

That's not a 'hc in waiting'... It's a lame duck current HC and a guy on the bench who can still leave you high and dry... and everyone puts a target on you to do just that.

You extend Wayne and name a successor/Associate Head Coach or whatever... and if Wayne keeps doing well and wants to keep going and the guy gets tired of waiting, you hire another successor. If Wayne doesn't want to stay and/or fails, you reassign him within the department and elevate the other guy.

That's how 'real' programs do it.... and Wayne's earned every dime for every sport on campus of whatever he wants to be reassigned to for however many years that is.

Totally agree with this....but it needs to be done YESTERDAY.

Agreed. Unfortunately, I just received an e-mail from an Rice sports insider (and old timer) who said he had just heard that no announcement would be made until players and students return to campus later this month. One can only hope this info is not accurate.

Every day that goes by is one less day of stability...just killing the program.
08-01-2017 08:31 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Another baseball de-commitment
Wayne's not killing the program... You guys need to get that out of your minds because it's insane. It's still by leaps and bounds the best program we have and any comparisons are laughable. If you want to argue that he's no longer a miracle worker and is returning to still be only one of the top 20 or so coaches in the game, that's fine... but the idea that there's another top 10 coach out there just clamoring for the job is a fantasy. Texas pays a coach whose best year has barely reached Wayne's LOWEST performance in the past 2+ decades more than we'd pay Wayne OR his replacement... and by a large margin. That same guy only stayed at Tulane, who is perhaps most comparable to us in many ways... for 1 year.
08-01-2017 11:25 PM
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waltgreenberg Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Another baseball de-commitment
(08-01-2017 11:25 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Wayne's not killing the program... You guys need to get that out of your minds because it's insane. It's still by leaps and bounds the best program we have and any comparisons are laughable. If you want to argue that he's no longer a miracle worker and is returning to still be only one of the top 20 or so coaches in the game, that's fine... but the idea that there's another top 10 coach out there just clamoring for the job is a fantasy. Texas pays a coach whose best year has barely reached Wayne's LOWEST performance in the past 2+ decades more than we'd pay Wayne OR his replacement... and by a large margin. That same guy only stayed at Tulane, who is perhaps most comparable to us in many ways... for 1 year.

??? Bones, must of us are saying nothing of the kind. However, the uncertainty over his current contract situation (with only one year remaining) IS without question having an adverse impact on the program; at least until it's resolved. We lost Scott Shepperd because of the uncertainty, despite offering him a promotion to Assistant Coach (from volunteer)...we've had two highly regarded recruits de-commit in just the past two weeks...and we will not be able to hire a quality Assistant Coach (whether he be a coach in waiting or just an Assistant) until Wayne and Joe resolve the contract situation. Either agree on a relatively short term (e.g., 2 years) contract extension or have Wayne agree that 2018 will be his swan song and go out with the farewell he so richly deserves...but it's imperative that a decision is made, and ASAP. The delay is most definitely having an adverse impact on the program.
(This post was last modified: 08-02-2017 08:22 AM by waltgreenberg.)
08-01-2017 11:34 PM
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exowlswimmer Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Another baseball de-commitment
(08-01-2017 11:25 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Wayne's not killing the program... You guys need to get that out of your minds because it's insane. It's still by leaps and bounds the best program we have and any comparisons are laughable. If you want to argue that he's no longer a miracle worker and is returning to still be only one of the top 20 or so coaches in the game, that's fine... but the idea that there's another top 10 coach out there just clamoring for the job is a fantasy. Texas pays a coach whose best year has barely reached Wayne's LOWEST performance in the past 2+ decades more than we'd pay Wayne OR his replacement... and by a large margin. That same guy only stayed at Tulane, who is perhaps most comparable to us in many ways... for 1 year.
+1000
Hamebone, haven't seen eye to eye on every issue but you have hit the nail on the head. Wayne singlehandedly built this program! Clone Wayne and his doppelganger will have Rice (not the city of Houston) hosting the 2032 games here.
08-01-2017 11:38 PM
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Owl1998 Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Another baseball de-commitment
(08-01-2017 11:38 PM)exowlswimmer Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 11:25 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Wayne's not killing the program... You guys need to get that out of your minds because it's insane. It's still by leaps and bounds the best program we have and any comparisons are laughable. If you want to argue that he's no longer a miracle worker and is returning to still be only one of the top 20 or so coaches in the game, that's fine... but the idea that there's another top 10 coach out there just clamoring for the job is a fantasy. Texas pays a coach whose best year has barely reached Wayne's LOWEST performance in the past 2+ decades more than we'd pay Wayne OR his replacement... and by a large margin. That same guy only stayed at Tulane, who is perhaps most comparable to us in many ways... for 1 year.
+1000
Hamebone, haven't seen eye to eye on every issue but you have hit the nail on the head. Wayne singlehandedly built this program! Clone Wayne and his doppelganger will have Rice (not the city of Houston) hosting the 2032 games here.

Uh, Hambone, I'm quite positive you've completely misread what I've been saying. Never have I said the OG is killing the program. EVER. He IS the program in my eyes and is a living legend.

What IS killing the program is the uncertainty of the situation. Like Walt explained quite nicely...we have still yet to hire a replacement for Van Hook. And losing VH led to the loss of Rivera (2019). Now, we lose Madden...a hometown kid who played for Coach Pope. This is clearly a trend that wreaks of poaching by other schools that use the uncertainty against us. If JK doesn't resolve the issue of the OG's contract then this trend will continue.
08-02-2017 06:49 AM
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Owl1998 Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Another baseball de-commitment
(08-02-2017 06:49 AM)Owl1998 Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 11:38 PM)exowlswimmer Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 11:25 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Wayne's not killing the program... You guys need to get that out of your minds because it's insane. It's still by leaps and bounds the best program we have and any comparisons are laughable. If you want to argue that he's no longer a miracle worker and is returning to still be only one of the top 20 or so coaches in the game, that's fine... but the idea that there's another top 10 coach out there just clamoring for the job is a fantasy. Texas pays a coach whose best year has barely reached Wayne's LOWEST performance in the past 2+ decades more than we'd pay Wayne OR his replacement... and by a large margin. That same guy only stayed at Tulane, who is perhaps most comparable to us in many ways... for 1 year.
+1000
Hamebone, haven't seen eye to eye on every issue but you have hit the nail on the head. Wayne singlehandedly built this program! Clone Wayne and his doppelganger will have Rice (not the city of Houston) hosting the 2032 games here.

Uh, Hambone, I'm quite positive you've completely misread what I've been saying. Never have I said the OG is killing the program. EVER. He IS the program in my eyes and is a living legend.

What IS killing the program is the uncertainty of the situation. Like Walt explained quite nicely...we have still yet to hire a replacement for Van Hook. And losing VH led to the loss of Rivera (2019). Now, we lose Madden...a hometown kid who played for Coach Pope. This is clearly a trend that wreaks of poaching by other schools that use the uncertainty against us. If JK doesn't resolve the issue of the OG's contract then this trend will continue.

https://www.burntorangenation.com/2017/8...-rice-owls

Article on Ty Madden
08-02-2017 11:31 AM
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Swede Owl Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Another baseball de-commitment
Interesting to see whether he shows up on the 40 Acres next year, or goes in the draft.
08-02-2017 12:55 PM
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Minnewaska Owl Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Another baseball de-commitment
(08-01-2017 11:25 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Wayne's not killing the program... You guys need to get that out of your minds because it's insane. It's still by leaps and bounds the best program we have and any comparisons are laughable. If you want to argue that he's no longer a miracle worker and is returning to still be only one of the top 20 or so coaches in the game, that's fine... but the idea that there's another top 10 coach out there just clamoring for the job is a fantasy. Texas pays a coach whose best year has barely reached Wayne's LOWEST performance in the past 2+ decades more than we'd pay Wayne OR his replacement... and by a large margin. That same guy only stayed at Tulane, who is perhaps most comparable to us in many ways... for 1 year.

"Killing the Program" is definitely too strong a statement - and as people have responded above, I don't think anybody is saying that. But, I personally think it is time to bring in someone younger to take over the program. That person may not have Wayne's baseball knowledge, teaching acumen or game management skills - but my thinking is that we now need a younger leader who will be more engaged and effective in our recruiting efforts.

As for as baseball being our best program by leaps and bounds, I'm no longer sure about that. Women's basketball is coming on very strong. I would not be surprised at all to see our women's basketball team be more successful than our baseball team next year (based on which team makes it to the NCAA tournament - or comes closer to achieving that goal). Also ask yourself, which coach (women's basketball or men's baseball) is more likely to be targeted by a P5 school in the coming year. Based on recent trends, we may soon see women's basketball replacing baseball as the obvious "crown jewel" of the Rice Athletic Department.
08-02-2017 02:27 PM
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