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ChicagoOwl (BS '07) Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Princeton Review
(08-01-2017 09:40 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(07-31-2017 08:18 PM)Bailiff_Lingo_Bingo Wrote:  
(07-31-2017 05:03 PM)mrbig Wrote:  Princeton review is out with their annual rankings. Once again, Rice does well in many categories. Particularly impressive, and the things I hope Rice is trying to build its image around, are:
#1 Best Quality of Life
#1 Lots of Race/Class Interaction
#2 Happiest Students

Rice's reputation when I matriculated in the late 1990's was "Best Value". Between Rice's rising tuition and other top colleges significantly improving their financial aid packages for middle-class kids, I think that branding for Rice started disappearing ~15 years ago (though we are still OK in that category). But Rice has placed very high in Quality of Life and Happiest Students for a number of years now. That, combined with elite academics, is the new brand that I think they should be selling. And the bonus is that it is something that appeals to potential student-athletes as well!

I fear that superlatives like those above are tough to brand around. Just about every college out there emphasizes happiness and diversity, even if we're succeeding at it a lot more than others.

Agreed on branding around value being less unique/tenable.

IMO brand should be around "this is an academically elite school, but is *not* overrun by social elites." You don't need a Rolex or a 5-generation alumni connection to fit in here. You won't find Chelsea Clinton or Malia Obama in your intro chem class. Etc, etc, etc. If spun and emphasized the right way, for many students that may be a positive.

That's the differentiating factor in my own mind at least.

That's a tricky comment to respond to for a number of reasons.

We actually do have a lot of multi-generational alumni connections (a significant amount of 2nd and 3rd gen students are at Rice). The difference between us and say, an Ivy, is that those students are often not associated with old money and an echelon of society that is often out of reach. So you're right in the main thrust of your argument, but you've got to tread lightly, as a lot of people take pride in being multi-generational.

And with regards to famous children, I think that is kind of a knock on Rice. We don't want to allow anyone in just because of their name, but Rice would get a lot of good, much-needed publicity if the children of former President's went to Rice, as opposed to ex-Governor's of FL, George Foreman, etc. I think us having Chelsea, one of W's kid's, or an Obama as an alum would be a big plus - it would indicate that we are a destination for everyone, and not just people inside of Texas (Texans still dominate the population). I

Oh, I couldn't agree more (even if I didn't articulate that well). It would be a huge publicity boon to get some famous kids to come here.
And when they come, I would want them to say, "I wanted an elite education but also to be outside of my social elite circles and finals clubs and environments where everyone went to the same elite prep school. I wanted to experience life in a diverse, real city like Houston, not a secluded burb like Palo Alto, blah blah"
08-01-2017 09:50 AM
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JSA Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Princeton Review
(07-31-2017 08:18 PM)Bailiff_Lingo_Bingo Wrote:  
(07-31-2017 05:03 PM)mrbig Wrote:  Princeton review is out with their annual rankings. Once again, Rice does well in many categories. Particularly impressive, and the things I hope Rice is trying to build its image around, are:
#1 Best Quality of Life
#1 Lots of Race/Class Interaction
#2 Happiest Students

Rice's reputation when I matriculated in the late 1990's was "Best Value". Between Rice's rising tuition and other top colleges significantly improving their financial aid packages for middle-class kids, I think that branding for Rice started disappearing ~15 years ago (though we are still OK in that category). But Rice has placed very high in Quality of Life and Happiest Students for a number of years now. That, combined with elite academics, is the new brand that I think they should be selling. And the bonus is that it is something that appeals to potential student-athletes as well!

I fear that superlatives like those above are tough to brand around. Just about every college out there emphasizes happiness and diversity, even if we're succeeding at it a lot more than others.

Agreed on branding around value being less unique/tenable.

IMO brand should be around "this is an academically elite school, but is *not* overrun by social elites." You don't need a Rolex or a 5-generation alumni connection to fit in here. You won't find Chelsea Clinton or Malia Obama in your intro chem class. Etc, etc, etc. If spun and emphasized the right way, for many students that may be a positive.

That's the differentiating factor in my own mind at least.

Didn't Dr. Hackerman teach undergraduate chem classes when he was President?
(This post was last modified: 08-01-2017 01:26 PM by JSA.)
08-01-2017 10:21 AM
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georgewebb Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Princeton Review
(08-01-2017 09:50 AM)ChicagoOwl (BS 07) Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 09:40 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(07-31-2017 08:18 PM)Bailiff_Lingo_Bingo Wrote:  
(07-31-2017 05:03 PM)mrbig Wrote:  Princeton review is out with their annual rankings. Once again, Rice does well in many categories. Particularly impressive, and the things I hope Rice is trying to build its image around, are:
#1 Best Quality of Life
#1 Lots of Race/Class Interaction
#2 Happiest Students

Rice's reputation when I matriculated in the late 1990's was "Best Value". Between Rice's rising tuition and other top colleges significantly improving their financial aid packages for middle-class kids, I think that branding for Rice started disappearing ~15 years ago (though we are still OK in that category). But Rice has placed very high in Quality of Life and Happiest Students for a number of years now. That, combined with elite academics, is the new brand that I think they should be selling. And the bonus is that it is something that appeals to potential student-athletes as well!

I fear that superlatives like those above are tough to brand around. Just about every college out there emphasizes happiness and diversity, even if we're succeeding at it a lot more than others.

Agreed on branding around value being less unique/tenable.

IMO brand should be around "this is an academically elite school, but is *not* overrun by social elites." You don't need a Rolex or a 5-generation alumni connection to fit in here. You won't find Chelsea Clinton or Malia Obama in your intro chem class. Etc, etc, etc. If spun and emphasized the right way, for many students that may be a positive.

That's the differentiating factor in my own mind at least.

That's a tricky comment to respond to for a number of reasons.

We actually do have a lot of multi-generational alumni connections (a significant amount of 2nd and 3rd gen students are at Rice). The difference between us and say, an Ivy, is that those students are often not associated with old money and an echelon of society that is often out of reach. So you're right in the main thrust of your argument, but you've got to tread lightly, as a lot of people take pride in being multi-generational.

And with regards to famous children, I think that is kind of a knock on Rice. We don't want to allow anyone in just because of their name, but Rice would get a lot of good, much-needed publicity if the children of former President's went to Rice, as opposed to ex-Governor's of FL, George Foreman, etc. I think us having Chelsea, one of W's kid's, or an Obama as an alum would be a big plus - it would indicate that we are a destination for everyone, and not just people inside of Texas (Texans still dominate the population). I

Oh, I couldn't agree more (even if I didn't articulate that well). It would be a huge publicity boon to get some famous kids to come here.

It's not that Rice doesn't admit those kids; it's that they don't apply. One reason I've heard is that Rice, unlike Stanford and the Ivies, has a reputation for NOT having any route that allows a famous kid to essentially coast to a degree. According to this theory, celebrity children know that at Rice they will have to work hard (whether they want to or not), whereas at other "elite" schools they won't be forced to if they don't want to.

I don't know how true any of that is.
08-01-2017 01:18 PM
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RiceLad15 Online
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Post: #14
RE: Princeton Review
(08-01-2017 01:18 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 09:50 AM)ChicagoOwl (BS 07) Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 09:40 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(07-31-2017 08:18 PM)Bailiff_Lingo_Bingo Wrote:  
(07-31-2017 05:03 PM)mrbig Wrote:  Princeton review is out with their annual rankings. Once again, Rice does well in many categories. Particularly impressive, and the things I hope Rice is trying to build its image around, are:
#1 Best Quality of Life
#1 Lots of Race/Class Interaction
#2 Happiest Students

Rice's reputation when I matriculated in the late 1990's was "Best Value". Between Rice's rising tuition and other top colleges significantly improving their financial aid packages for middle-class kids, I think that branding for Rice started disappearing ~15 years ago (though we are still OK in that category). But Rice has placed very high in Quality of Life and Happiest Students for a number of years now. That, combined with elite academics, is the new brand that I think they should be selling. And the bonus is that it is something that appeals to potential student-athletes as well!

I fear that superlatives like those above are tough to brand around. Just about every college out there emphasizes happiness and diversity, even if we're succeeding at it a lot more than others.

Agreed on branding around value being less unique/tenable.

IMO brand should be around "this is an academically elite school, but is *not* overrun by social elites." You don't need a Rolex or a 5-generation alumni connection to fit in here. You won't find Chelsea Clinton or Malia Obama in your intro chem class. Etc, etc, etc. If spun and emphasized the right way, for many students that may be a positive.

That's the differentiating factor in my own mind at least.

That's a tricky comment to respond to for a number of reasons.

We actually do have a lot of multi-generational alumni connections (a significant amount of 2nd and 3rd gen students are at Rice). The difference between us and say, an Ivy, is that those students are often not associated with old money and an echelon of society that is often out of reach. So you're right in the main thrust of your argument, but you've got to tread lightly, as a lot of people take pride in being multi-generational.

And with regards to famous children, I think that is kind of a knock on Rice. We don't want to allow anyone in just because of their name, but Rice would get a lot of good, much-needed publicity if the children of former President's went to Rice, as opposed to ex-Governor's of FL, George Foreman, etc. I think us having Chelsea, one of W's kid's, or an Obama as an alum would be a big plus - it would indicate that we are a destination for everyone, and not just people inside of Texas (Texans still dominate the population). I

Oh, I couldn't agree more (even if I didn't articulate that well). It would be a huge publicity boon to get some famous kids to come here.

It's not that Rice doesn't admit those kids; it's that they don't apply. One reason I've heard is that Rice, unlike Stanford and the Ivies, has a reputation for NOT having any route that allows a famous kid to essentially coast to a degree. According to this theory, celebrity children know that at Rice they will have to work hard (whether they want to or not), whereas at other "elite" schools they won't be forced to if they don't want to.

I don't know how true any of that is.

I assume you're right that we don't have them because they don't apply. I doubt they don't apply because there is no way to coast - there are definitely majors at Rice that are less rigorous. I find the most likely reason they don't apply is because Rice does not have the same prestige or recognition like Stanford or the Ivies.
08-01-2017 01:26 PM
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waltgreenberg Online
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Post: #15
RE: Princeton Review
(08-01-2017 01:26 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 01:18 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 09:50 AM)ChicagoOwl (BS 07) Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 09:40 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(07-31-2017 08:18 PM)Bailiff_Lingo_Bingo Wrote:  I fear that superlatives like those above are tough to brand around. Just about every college out there emphasizes happiness and diversity, even if we're succeeding at it a lot more than others.

Agreed on branding around value being less unique/tenable.

IMO brand should be around "this is an academically elite school, but is *not* overrun by social elites." You don't need a Rolex or a 5-generation alumni connection to fit in here. You won't find Chelsea Clinton or Malia Obama in your intro chem class. Etc, etc, etc. If spun and emphasized the right way, for many students that may be a positive.

That's the differentiating factor in my own mind at least.

That's a tricky comment to respond to for a number of reasons.

We actually do have a lot of multi-generational alumni connections (a significant amount of 2nd and 3rd gen students are at Rice). The difference between us and say, an Ivy, is that those students are often not associated with old money and an echelon of society that is often out of reach. So you're right in the main thrust of your argument, but you've got to tread lightly, as a lot of people take pride in being multi-generational.

And with regards to famous children, I think that is kind of a knock on Rice. We don't want to allow anyone in just because of their name, but Rice would get a lot of good, much-needed publicity if the children of former President's went to Rice, as opposed to ex-Governor's of FL, George Foreman, etc. I think us having Chelsea, one of W's kid's, or an Obama as an alum would be a big plus - it would indicate that we are a destination for everyone, and not just people inside of Texas (Texans still dominate the population). I

Oh, I couldn't agree more (even if I didn't articulate that well). It would be a huge publicity boon to get some famous kids to come here.

It's not that Rice doesn't admit those kids; it's that they don't apply. One reason I've heard is that Rice, unlike Stanford and the Ivies, has a reputation for NOT having any route that allows a famous kid to essentially coast to a degree. According to this theory, celebrity children know that at Rice they will have to work hard (whether they want to or not), whereas at other "elite" schools they won't be forced to if they don't want to.

I don't know how true any of that is.

I assume you're right that we don't have them because they don't apply. I doubt they don't apply because there is no way to coast - there are definitely majors at Rice that are less rigorous. I find the most likely reason they don't apply is because Rice does not have the same prestige or recognition like Stanford or the Ivies.

+1000...and/or they have no desire to go to school in Texas. Do tell why children of celebrities would want to coast through college moreso than kids from any other set of parents?

BTW, we currently do have Dan Rather's grandchild on campus.
(This post was last modified: 08-01-2017 05:08 PM by waltgreenberg.)
08-01-2017 05:07 PM
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ExcitedOwl18 Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Princeton Review
(08-01-2017 05:07 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 01:26 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 01:18 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 09:50 AM)ChicagoOwl (BS 07) Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 09:40 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  That's a tricky comment to respond to for a number of reasons.

We actually do have a lot of multi-generational alumni connections (a significant amount of 2nd and 3rd gen students are at Rice). The difference between us and say, an Ivy, is that those students are often not associated with old money and an echelon of society that is often out of reach. So you're right in the main thrust of your argument, but you've got to tread lightly, as a lot of people take pride in being multi-generational.

And with regards to famous children, I think that is kind of a knock on Rice. We don't want to allow anyone in just because of their name, but Rice would get a lot of good, much-needed publicity if the children of former President's went to Rice, as opposed to ex-Governor's of FL, George Foreman, etc. I think us having Chelsea, one of W's kid's, or an Obama as an alum would be a big plus - it would indicate that we are a destination for everyone, and not just people inside of Texas (Texans still dominate the population). I

Oh, I couldn't agree more (even if I didn't articulate that well). It would be a huge publicity boon to get some famous kids to come here.

It's not that Rice doesn't admit those kids; it's that they don't apply. One reason I've heard is that Rice, unlike Stanford and the Ivies, has a reputation for NOT having any route that allows a famous kid to essentially coast to a degree. According to this theory, celebrity children know that at Rice they will have to work hard (whether they want to or not), whereas at other "elite" schools they won't be forced to if they don't want to.

I don't know how true any of that is.

I assume you're right that we don't have them because they don't apply. I doubt they don't apply because there is no way to coast - there are definitely majors at Rice that are less rigorous. I find the most likely reason they don't apply is because Rice does not have the same prestige or recognition like Stanford or the Ivies.

+1000...and/or they have no desire to go to school in Texas. Do tell why children of celebrities would want to coast through college moreso than kids from any other set of parents?

BTW, we currently do have Dan Rather's grandchild on campus.

I think you overplay the whole "Texas" thing (which is politically motivated I think). Tulane draws primarily from the northeast and Louisiana is by far the more "backwards" state.

Vanderbilt, Emory, and others also do a far better job drawing from the northeast and they're in red states.
08-01-2017 05:20 PM
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waltgreenberg Online
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Post: #17
RE: Princeton Review
(08-01-2017 05:20 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 05:07 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 01:26 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 01:18 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 09:50 AM)ChicagoOwl (BS 07) Wrote:  Oh, I couldn't agree more (even if I didn't articulate that well). It would be a huge publicity boon to get some famous kids to come here.

It's not that Rice doesn't admit those kids; it's that they don't apply. One reason I've heard is that Rice, unlike Stanford and the Ivies, has a reputation for NOT having any route that allows a famous kid to essentially coast to a degree. According to this theory, celebrity children know that at Rice they will have to work hard (whether they want to or not), whereas at other "elite" schools they won't be forced to if they don't want to.

I don't know how true any of that is.

I assume you're right that we don't have them because they don't apply. I doubt they don't apply because there is no way to coast - there are definitely majors at Rice that are less rigorous. I find the most likely reason they don't apply is because Rice does not have the same prestige or recognition like Stanford or the Ivies.

+1000...and/or they have no desire to go to school in Texas. Do tell why children of celebrities would want to coast through college moreso than kids from any other set of parents?

BTW, we currently do have Dan Rather's grandchild on campus.

I think you overplay the whole "Texas" thing (which is politically motivated I think). Tulane draws primarily from the northeast and Louisiana is by far the more "backwards" state.

Vanderbilt, Emory, and others also do a far better job drawing from the northeast and they're in red states.

No, I'm not overplaying the whole "Texas" thing. I got it directly from the Head of Acceptance/Admissions last year.
08-01-2017 05:22 PM
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davidw Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Princeton Review
why would they not want to go to school in Texas ?
08-01-2017 05:26 PM
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Bailiff_Lingo_Bingo Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Princeton Review
(08-01-2017 05:26 PM)davidw Wrote:  why would they not want to go to school in Texas ?

are people not aware of the national perception of Texas/the South, esp. among high-achieving kids?
08-01-2017 05:47 PM
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ExcitedOwl18 Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Princeton Review
(08-01-2017 05:22 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 05:20 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 05:07 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 01:26 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(08-01-2017 01:18 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  It's not that Rice doesn't admit those kids; it's that they don't apply. One reason I've heard is that Rice, unlike Stanford and the Ivies, has a reputation for NOT having any route that allows a famous kid to essentially coast to a degree. According to this theory, celebrity children know that at Rice they will have to work hard (whether they want to or not), whereas at other "elite" schools they won't be forced to if they don't want to.

I don't know how true any of that is.

I assume you're right that we don't have them because they don't apply. I doubt they don't apply because there is no way to coast - there are definitely majors at Rice that are less rigorous. I find the most likely reason they don't apply is because Rice does not have the same prestige or recognition like Stanford or the Ivies.

+1000...and/or they have no desire to go to school in Texas. Do tell why children of celebrities would want to coast through college moreso than kids from any other set of parents?

BTW, we currently do have Dan Rather's grandchild on campus.

I think you overplay the whole "Texas" thing (which is politically motivated I think). Tulane draws primarily from the northeast and Louisiana is by far the more "backwards" state.

Vanderbilt, Emory, and others also do a far better job drawing from the northeast and they're in red states.

No, I'm not overplaying the whole "Texas" thing. I got it directly from the Head of Acceptance/Admissions last year.

I'm not denying that admissions thinks that is the issue. Why is that an issue is my question? Are we not branding ourselves properly? Why do people have desire to go to school in Tennessee but not Texas, a state with far greater cultural/racial diversity, economic opportunity, and entertainment options?

Additionally, why are Americans migrating to Texas (as shown by population growth), but students are not?

I personally think it's because our branding sucks.
08-01-2017 05:50 PM
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