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tcufrog86 Online
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Post: #11
RE: Saban calls for all Power 5 schedule
(07-27-2017 11:16 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(07-27-2017 09:48 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(07-27-2017 07:36 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  Maybe Saban could start by scheduling more than one power five game out of conference?

I was thinking the same thing. In the SEC, who even schedules 10 p5 games - besides S Carolina and Georgia? Yet he's talking 12?

Basically what JR said...

But if you want to know the reason Saban isn't scheduling 10 Power games NOW, it's because virtually no one else is doing it. That's called a competitive disadvantage.

And if you two aren't scared of the competition as your chest-beating would indicate then you should embrace what Saban is calling for rather than being snarky about it.

Virtually nobody else is doing it in the SEC, but it is fairly common in some other leagues to play 10 games against P5 teams.

In the Big 12 last season Baylor and Kansas were the only two to play 9 P5 games, Texas and WVU each played 11 while all the others played 10.

In the Pac 12 last season Washington State was the only one to play 9; Oregon, Stanford, UCLA, and USC each played 11 while everyone else played 10.

Save me the "grind of the SEC" or strength of conference comments because I have heard and fully understand that argument.
07-28-2017 09:37 AM
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Saban calls for all Power 5 schedule
If it goes this route, then I'd prefer something similar to a professional league! You have 8x8 conferences. That gives you 7 conference games per season with 5 non-conference games. Make 3 of those 5 against regional teams and 2 against non-regional teams. Rotate it every year based on your final ranking. Conference champions plus 8 wild cards go into 16-team playoff. Happy Friday!

PAC: Washington, Washington St, Oregon, Oregon St, California, Stanford, USC, UCLA
Big 8: Colorado, Nebraska, Iowa St, Missouri, Kansas, Kansas St, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St
SWC: Arizona, Arizona St, Utah, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, TCU, Arkansas
SEC: LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi St, Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee
ACC: North Carolina, North Carolina St, Duke, Wake Forest, Virginia, Maryland, Clemson, South Carolina
Midwest: Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue, Kentucky
Northeast: Michigan, Michigan St, Notre Dame, Ohio St, Penn St, Syracuse, Boston College, Rutgers
Metro: Miami, Florida St, Georgia Tech, Vanderbilt, Louisville, West Virginia, Pittsburgh, Virginia Tech
07-28-2017 09:42 AM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Saban calls for all Power 5 schedule
(07-28-2017 09:37 AM)tcufrog86 Wrote:  
(07-27-2017 11:16 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(07-27-2017 09:48 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(07-27-2017 07:36 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  Maybe Saban could start by scheduling more than one power five game out of conference?

I was thinking the same thing. In the SEC, who even schedules 10 p5 games - besides S Carolina and Georgia? Yet he's talking 12?

Basically what JR said...

But if you want to know the reason Saban isn't scheduling 10 Power games NOW, it's because virtually no one else is doing it. That's called a competitive disadvantage.

And if you two aren't scared of the competition as your chest-beating would indicate then you should embrace what Saban is calling for rather than being snarky about it.

Virtually nobody else is doing it in the SEC, but it is fairly common in some other leagues to play 10 games against P5 teams.

In the Big 12 last season Baylor and Kansas were the only two to play 9 P5 games, Texas and WVU each played 11 while all the others played 10.

In the Pac 12 last season Washington State was the only one to play 9; Oregon, Stanford, UCLA, and USC each played 11 while everyone else played 10.

Save me the "grind of the SEC" or strength of conference comments because I have heard and fully understand that argument.

Ok, fair enough. I wasn't really thinking about some of these leagues playing 9 conference games. Nonetheless, that list still doesn't include the B1G or ACC and certainly not most of the SEC. The PAC and the Big 12 are the smallest in the Power leagues. My point was about scheduling multiple Power teams out of conference. Not many do that.

Anyway, I don't really care about the strength of schedule angle of this. It's completely beside the point. The point is we need to move to a model where we're all playing 12 Power games. That and there's still no reason for Saban to be worried about scheduling a 10th Power game when his primary competitors for the CFP are only doing 9. One day the SEC will start playing 9 and scheduling that 10th game will be a no-brainer. Until then we're arguing over minutia.
07-28-2017 02:04 PM
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Gamecock Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Saban calls for all Power 5 schedule
(07-27-2017 09:24 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(07-27-2017 07:36 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  Maybe Saban could start by scheduling more than one power five game out of conference?

The AD would have to accept 6 vice 7 home games first.

All they have to do is give up the neutral site games

4 homes SEC games
2 cupcakes
1 home OOC (1 road)
08-01-2017 08:35 AM
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Gamecock Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Saban calls for all Power 5 schedule
(07-27-2017 11:16 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(07-27-2017 09:48 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(07-27-2017 07:36 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  Maybe Saban could start by scheduling more than one power five game out of conference?

I was thinking the same thing. In the SEC, who even schedules 10 p5 games - besides S Carolina and Georgia? Yet he's talking 12?

Basically what JR said...

But if you want to know the reason Saban isn't scheduling 10 Power games NOW, it's because virtually no one else is doing it. That's called a competitive disadvantage.

And if you two aren't scared of the competition as your chest-beating would indicate then you should embrace what Saban is calling for rather than being snarky about it.

South Carolina, UGA, and Florida do it basically every year.
08-01-2017 08:37 AM
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CoastalJuan Offline
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Post: #16
Saban calls for all Power 5 schedule
Just to give an alternate perspective. I don't understand his rationale. Let's put aside for a moment the fact that he'd be singing a completely different tune if you stuck Alabama in the Sun Belt.

1) How would it increase tv ratings if people stopped watching half of the FBS teams? That would likely happen if everyone stopped playing each other. I might watch less of my own team, but certainly wouldn't start watching others if mine was no longer (essentially) in D1.

2) why would there be a need to expand the playoff if there are less conferences involved? The point of expanding is picking up the conferences that you had to leave out with 4.

The expanded model works well for the basketball tournament. Everyone loved watching Florida Gulf Coast's run a few years ago. What's the point of having an all ACC and Big East championship bracket?


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08-01-2017 11:30 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Saban calls for all Power 5 schedule
(08-01-2017 08:37 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  
(07-27-2017 11:16 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(07-27-2017 09:48 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(07-27-2017 07:36 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  Maybe Saban could start by scheduling more than one power five game out of conference?

I was thinking the same thing. In the SEC, who even schedules 10 p5 games - besides S Carolina and Georgia? Yet he's talking 12?

Basically what JR said...

But if you want to know the reason Saban isn't scheduling 10 Power games NOW, it's because virtually no one else is doing it. That's called a competitive disadvantage.

And if you two aren't scared of the competition as your chest-beating would indicate then you should embrace what Saban is calling for rather than being snarky about it.

South Carolina, UGA, and Florida do it basically every year.

Well, that's a very recent thing for Florida - but again, props to SC and GA.
08-02-2017 10:24 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Saban calls for all Power 5 schedule
Last year all but 3 or 4 SEC schools played 9 "P" games. The issue for the SEC AD's is not ease of schedule, but greed. The SEC averages 77,500 in attendance for all 14 venues combined. When a conference or "P" ticket costs $75 (plus the contribution to buy it) and the average non "P" ticket costs $60 do the math. $5,812,500 is the average gate (donations not included) for each home SEC game versus a "P" opponent. If it is an SEC school and you average the away gate with the home gate then you can say the revenue is basically split for those 8 games. So the take is probably around 3 million per game for all 8 conference games when averaged. Bring in a Clemson or Florida State and their take is probably going to be averaged by the home and home agreement and since all schools in the South and Southwest other than Clemson, Florida State, Oklahoma and Texas average fewer fans at events than do SEC schools every home and home against all other schools is a money loser versus playing another conference game because the average of the home and home splits would be lower than that of 2 SEC schools playing.

So where's the greed? The greed is in playing those home only games against any FCS or G5 school with which the agreement is made. $4,650,000 is the take there. Most of those get a guarantee pay out of between 750,000 to 1,000,000 with a few that could command a little bit more. Now think about that. If South Florida plays in an SEC venue they earn for that 1 stinking game half of their total TV revenue for their entire home AAC schedule and what for them would be a very nice gate for 1 game. And for their trouble the SEC school which schedules them takes home between $650,000 - $900,000 more for that game than they would for a home SEC game.

That's an additional 2.5 million more per season in just gate (not concessions, not donations, not merchandise sales) for playing what this board calls three cupcakes than we would make by playing all "P" games. And, it is an extra home game to boot.

That's why the AD's don't want to jump into more P games but might be willing to quit playing the Big Name OOC game in exchange for another SEC game on the schedule.

Interestingly folks that's why I have always included average attendance as part of the realignment numbers that have to be considered. Do you find it coincidental that the only 4 schools that could equal or add to our bottom line should we expand with them are the only 4 schools that we can schedule home and home without fear of losing money in the exchange of games? I don't. Texas, Oklahoma, Florida State, and Clemson are still those 4 schools. The only way that a North Carolina or Virginia school creeps into the picture of potentially adding revenue is through TV audience. The home and home's would downgrade what the SEC currently makes in that one aspect. Their venues are too small, and their travel crowds to light for the home and home to NET the prophets we make now.

When we play neutral site games it is because TV guarantees a payout that equals or excels our home gate and concessions.

So it's not because "we are afraid to play big schools" that we don't schedule more "P" games, but rather because we make more money by not scheduling them. This is why (for those of you who lack reasoning capabilities) the networks raise our TV payouts every time we add another conference or P game. They have to exceed the totals we would have earned by not cooperating in order to gain our cooperation. In other words as businessmen we won't schedule more "P" games until it is profitable for us to do so.

And that's the end of this unenlightened and totally erroneous internet smack talking point. It is also why the Big 10 once averaged 3 such games a year as well. Next to the SEC they have the second largest home attendance and make the second most off of their gate.

And just to finish this up, the reason most SEC schools will never play in a G5 or lower venue is the crowd size and ticket prices. Our tickets cost more than about anyone else's. Our crowd sizes are the largest by an average of 11,500 per game over the Big 10, and by about 40,000 over many G5 and lower programs. We could easily lose 2 to 3 million by scheduling such a game. So it's not happening. I don't know why Miss State is playing La Tech in Rustin? That game is going to cost our 12th place revenue producing school some cash. I think their A.D. is nuts. It sounds more like a favor between the A.D.'s than anything else I can think of.

So to my fellow SEC compadres I say ignore the butt hurt, whining, foul crying, dumbasses of the world who say we schedule down. Because scheduling up would lose us close to 3 million per school per season. And since we are at the pinnacle of the revenue producing conferences (averaging last year 16 million more per school in revenue generated than our closest competitor the Big 10) when can endure their slings and arrows until somebody makes it profitable for us to change.

If Saban is talking all "P" games then the carrot of profitability has been dangled and he is merely encouraging us to take it.
(This post was last modified: 08-02-2017 11:33 AM by JRsec.)
08-02-2017 11:23 AM
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Saban calls for all Power 5 schedule
Easy fix: realign and expand the current P5 to 26 schools each or up to 25 schools each with 5 Independents (all considered power opponents) - I prefer the latter. Schedule only FBS schools which means you only play power schools.

Independents: Notre Dame, BYU, Army, Navy, Air Force

PAC
Northwest: Washington, Washington St, Oregon, Oregon St, Boise St
Central: California, Stanford, San Jose St, Fresno St, Nevada
Pacific: USC, UCLA, San Diego St, UNLV, Hawaii
Mountain: Utah, Utah St, Wyoming, Colorado, Colorado St
Southwest: Arizona, Arizona St, New Mexico, New Mexico St, UTEP

XII
Swamp: LSU, Louisiana Tech, Tulane, UL Lafayette, UL Monroe
Lone Star: Texas A&M, Houston, Rice, TCU, SMU
Longhorn: Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, UTSA, Texas St
Midwest: Nebraska, Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St, Missouri
Red River: Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Tulsa, Arkansas, North Texas

B1G
Glove: Michigan, Michigan St, Western Michigan, Central Michigan, Eastern Michigan
North-Central-Midwest: Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Northwestern, Northern Illinois
Southwest-Central-Midwest: Illinois, Indiana, Purdue, Ball St, Louisville
Southeast-Central-Midwest: Kentucky, Cincinnati, Marshall, Ohio, Miami OH
Buckeye: Ohio St, Toledo, Bowling Green St, Kent St, Akron

SEC
Mississippi River: Mississippi, Mississippi St, Memphis, Southern Miss, Arkansas St
Camellia: Alabama, Auburn, UAB, South Alabama, Troy
Sunshine: Miami FL, South Florida, Central Florida, Florida Atlantic, Florida International
Peach-Orange: Florida, Florida St, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Georgia Southern
Bluegrass: Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Middle Tennessee St, Western Kentucky, Georgia St

ACC
Carolina South: South Carolina, Clemson, Charlotte, Appalachian St
Carolina North: North Carolina, North Carolina St, Duke, Wake Forest, East Carolina
Mid-Atlantic: Virginia, Virginia Tech, Maryland, Old Dominion, Liberty
Keystone: Penn St, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Rutgers, Temple
Northeast: Boston College, Syracuse, Connecticut, Buffalo, Massachusetts
(This post was last modified: 08-02-2017 11:33 AM by BePcr07.)
08-02-2017 11:32 AM
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YNot Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Saban calls for all Power 5 schedule
(08-01-2017 11:30 AM)CoastalJuan Wrote:  Just to give an alternate perspective. I don't understand his rationale. Let's put aside for a moment the fact that he'd be singing a completely different tune if you stuck Alabama in the Sun Belt.

1) How would it increase tv ratings if people stopped watching half of the FBS teams? That would likely happen if everyone stopped playing each other. I might watch less of my own team, but certainly wouldn't start watching others if mine was no longer (essentially) in D1.

You're removing the *half* of the FBS that few watch. At the same time, you increase the number of quality matchups, which attract more viewers. Thus, you get better ratings and more $$$$.

Go to the weekly TV ratings listings at:
http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college-...v-ratings/

Add up all the viewership totals from any given week. Separate the G5 viewership numbers and then divide by the total viewers. You will see that G5 viewership is a miniscule percentage of college football viewership - likely in the range of 3-4% of total CFB viewership for the week.

(08-01-2017 11:30 AM)CoastalJuan Wrote:  2) why would there be a need to expand the playoff if there are less conferences involved? The point of expanding is picking up the conferences that you had to leave out with 4.

The expanded model works well for the basketball tournament. Everyone loved watching Florida Gulf Coast's run a few years ago. What's the point of having an all ACC and Big East championship bracket?

If there are more quality games, that means a team is more likely to have fewer wins and more losses. The expanded playoff allows for margin of error - which encourages good teams to play each other during the regular season - rather than pad the win-loss record with a couple of cupcake games (that few watch on TV and that season ticket holders don't really want to see).

See also - the NFL model.
08-03-2017 04:22 PM
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