(07-25-2017 11:59 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(07-25-2017 11:51 AM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(07-25-2017 10:41 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  I really wish some Hindu would get appointed as Sec. Of Agriculture and refuse to approve/grade any beef for sale.

Or concealed carry permits not get issued because a Christian refuses to issue them and suggests turning the other cheek instead.

I bet the tune would be different.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Not really. You'd still be giddy that this hypothetical person "got theirs". Then you'd tell everyone who got angry about it how freaking stupid they are and how much smarter you are. It's so utterly predictable*.

Well, if you were angry about any of those people having to obey their oaths, you would be freaking stupid and I would indeed say so.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

I'm not angry about this or your hypothetical. What I've pointed out is that you take a stand on something and belittle anyone who has an opposing opinion than you. By belittle I mean to say that if I have a differing opinion than you have, that makes me a freaking retard and you a freaking genius.

When a territory wanted to become a state...


Northwest Ordinance

Quote:The Northwest Ordinance, officially titled "An Ordinance for the Government of the Territory of the United States North West of the River Ohio," was adopted by the Confederation Congress on July 13, 1787. Also known as the Ordinance of 1787, the Northwest Ordinance established a government for the Northwest Territory, outlined the process for admitting a new state to the Union, and guaranteed that newly created states would be equal to the original thirteen states. Considered one of the most important legislative acts of the Confederation Congress, the Northwest Ordinance also protected civil liberties and outlawed slavery in the new territories.

Text of the Northwest Ordinance...

Northwest Ordinance; July 13, 1787

Quote:Sec. 13. And, for extending the fundamental principles of civil and religious liberty, which form the basis whereon these republics, their laws and constitutions are erected; to fix and establish those principles as the basis of all laws, constitutions, and governments, which forever hereafter shall be formed in the said territory: to provide also for the establishment of States, and permanent government therein, and for their admission to a share in the federal councils on an equal footing with the original States, at as early periods as may be consistent with the general interest:

Civil and religious liberty form the basis of republics...

Quote:Art. 3. Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged.

Religion, morality and knowledge are necessary for good government.



George Washington agreed with this as evidenced by his statements in his Farewell Address in 1796. (text)

Quote:Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked: Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice ? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.

It is substantially true that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government. The rule, indeed, extends with more or less force to every species of free government. Who that is a sincere friend to it can look with indifference upon attempts to shake the foundation of the fabric?

Promote then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.

He equated the removal of religion and morality from government as treasonous.

He also pointed out that you can't sustain morality if separated from religion.

In a reference back to the Northwest Ordinace, he also reminded the people to make sure to protect their freedoms by including religion and morality in education.

I'm not sure why people see this as news. That's how many statutes work--fee shifting statutes.

(07-25-2017 01:09 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  When a territory wanted to become a state...


Northwest Ordinance

Quote:The Northwest Ordinance, officially titled "An Ordinance for the Government of the Territory of the United States North West of the River Ohio," was adopted by the Confederation Congress on July 13, 1787. Also known as the Ordinance of 1787, the Northwest Ordinance established a government for the Northwest Territory, outlined the process for admitting a new state to the Union, and guaranteed that newly created states would be equal to the original thirteen states. Considered one of the most important legislative acts of the Confederation Congress, the Northwest Ordinance also protected civil liberties and outlawed slavery in the new territories.

Text of the Northwest Ordinance...

Northwest Ordinance; July 13, 1787

Quote:Sec. 13. And, for extending the fundamental principles of civil and religious liberty, which form the basis whereon these republics, their laws and constitutions are erected; to fix and establish those principles as the basis of all laws, constitutions, and governments, which forever hereafter shall be formed in the said territory: to provide also for the establishment of States, and permanent government therein, and for their admission to a share in the federal councils on an equal footing with the original States, at as early periods as may be consistent with the general interest:

Civil and religious liberty form the basis of republics...

Quote:Art. 3. Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged.

Religion, morality and knowledge are necessary for good government.



George Washington agreed with this as evidenced by his statements in his Farewell Address in 1796. (text)

Quote:Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked: Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice ? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.

It is substantially true that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government. The rule, indeed, extends with more or less force to every species of free government. Who that is a sincere friend to it can look with indifference upon attempts to shake the foundation of the fabric?

Promote then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.

He equated the removal of religion and morality from government as treasonous.

He also pointed out that you can't sustain morality if separated from religion.

In a reference back to the Northwest Ordinace, he also reminded the people to make sure to protect their freedoms by including religion and morality in education.

never forget, I ensured my daughter was raised in a religious enviro....

sometimes you lie for the betterment of the whole....

however, one CANNOT govern with that as the directive....that's the point of separation....

AND, one day the blk bold will be fully proved 0.....already is in my and many others' mind.....it's 250 yrs down the road with too many 1s being proved daily as the next foundation....

evolve or die....

if Washington would've lost, he would've been hung for that same (t)reason.....lmfao....

(07-25-2017 11:56 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(07-25-2017 01:09 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  When a territory wanted to become a state...


Northwest Ordinance

Quote:The Northwest Ordinance, officially titled "An Ordinance for the Government of the Territory of the United States North West of the River Ohio," was adopted by the Confederation Congress on July 13, 1787. Also known as the Ordinance of 1787, the Northwest Ordinance established a government for the Northwest Territory, outlined the process for admitting a new state to the Union, and guaranteed that newly created states would be equal to the original thirteen states. Considered one of the most important legislative acts of the Confederation Congress, the Northwest Ordinance also protected civil liberties and outlawed slavery in the new territories.

Text of the Northwest Ordinance...

Northwest Ordinance; July 13, 1787

Quote:Sec. 13. And, for extending the fundamental principles of civil and religious liberty, which form the basis whereon these republics, their laws and constitutions are erected; to fix and establish those principles as the basis of all laws, constitutions, and governments, which forever hereafter shall be formed in the said territory: to provide also for the establishment of States, and permanent government therein, and for their admission to a share in the federal councils on an equal footing with the original States, at as early periods as may be consistent with the general interest:

Civil and religious liberty form the basis of republics...

Quote:Art. 3. Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged.

Religion, morality and knowledge are necessary for good government.



George Washington agreed with this as evidenced by his statements in his Farewell Address in 1796. (text)

Quote:Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked: Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice ? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.

It is substantially true that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government. The rule, indeed, extends with more or less force to every species of free government. Who that is a sincere friend to it can look with indifference upon attempts to shake the foundation of the fabric?

Promote then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.

He equated the removal of religion and morality from government as treasonous.

He also pointed out that you can't sustain morality if separated from religion.

In a reference back to the Northwest Ordinace, he also reminded the people to make sure to protect their freedoms by including religion and morality in education.

never forget, I ensured my daughter was raised in a religious enviro....

sometimes you lie for the betterment of the whole....

however, one CANNOT govern with that as the directive....that's the point of separation....

AND, one day the blk bold will be fully proved 0.....already is in my and many others' mind.....it's 250 yrs down the road with too many 1s being proved daily as the next foundation....

evolve or die....

if Washington would've lost, he would've been hung for that same (t)reason.....lmfao....

The founders knew that and they knew that they HAD to win.

But, to the victors go the spoils.

And that group of men gave us a government built on religious morality. They knew freedom could ONLY work under that framework.

We can say it has to evolve over time, but that doesn't mean the new breed of gov structure will encourage freedom.


Think about it: today we have the government demanding that you and I do business together at your request but not at mine. That's just one small example. Where's the freedom in that?

(07-26-2017 01:12 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(07-25-2017 11:56 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(07-25-2017 01:09 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  When a territory wanted to become a state...


Northwest Ordinance

Quote:The Northwest Ordinance, officially titled "An Ordinance for the Government of the Territory of the United States North West of the River Ohio," was adopted by the Confederation Congress on July 13, 1787. Also known as the Ordinance of 1787, the Northwest Ordinance established a government for the Northwest Territory, outlined the process for admitting a new state to the Union, and guaranteed that newly created states would be equal to the original thirteen states. Considered one of the most important legislative acts of the Confederation Congress, the Northwest Ordinance also protected civil liberties and outlawed slavery in the new territories.

Text of the Northwest Ordinance...

Northwest Ordinance; July 13, 1787

Quote:Sec. 13. And, for extending the fundamental principles of civil and religious liberty, which form the basis whereon these republics, their laws and constitutions are erected; to fix and establish those principles as the basis of all laws, constitutions, and governments, which forever hereafter shall be formed in the said territory: to provide also for the establishment of States, and permanent government therein, and for their admission to a share in the federal councils on an equal footing with the original States, at as early periods as may be consistent with the general interest:

Civil and religious liberty form the basis of republics...

Quote:Art. 3. Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged.

Religion, morality and knowledge are necessary for good government.



George Washington agreed with this as evidenced by his statements in his Farewell Address in 1796. (text)

Quote:Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked: Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice ? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.

It is substantially true that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government. The rule, indeed, extends with more or less force to every species of free government. Who that is a sincere friend to it can look with indifference upon attempts to shake the foundation of the fabric?

Promote then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.

He equated the removal of religion and morality from government as treasonous.

He also pointed out that you can't sustain morality if separated from religion.

In a reference back to the Northwest Ordinace, he also reminded the people to make sure to protect their freedoms by including religion and morality in education.

never forget, I ensured my daughter was raised in a religious enviro....

sometimes you lie for the betterment of the whole....

however, one CANNOT govern with that as the directive....that's the point of separation....

AND, one day the blk bold will be fully proved 0.....already is in my and many others' mind.....it's 250 yrs down the road with too many 1s being proved daily as the next foundation....

evolve or die....

if Washington would've lost, he would've been hung for that same (t)reason.....lmfao....

The founders knew that and they knew that they HAD to win.

But, to the victors go the spoils.

And that group of men gave us a government built on religious morality. They knew freedom could ONLY work under that framework.

We can say it has to evolve over time, but that doesn't mean the new breed of gov structure will encourage freedom.


Think about it: today we have the government demanding that you and I do business together at your request but not at mine. That's just one small example. Where's the freedom in that?

that is XACLY! correct.....

Democrats. The party of phyrric victories.

Well done

(07-25-2017 10:17 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(07-25-2017 10:13 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(07-25-2017 10:11 AM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(07-25-2017 07:29 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(07-25-2017 07:11 AM)miko33 Wrote:  Ah yes. Forgot about this. She was completely in the wrong and should have removed herself from office if she could not comply with the law. Shame it had to come to this.

this is why religious conservatism is a waste 0' time....has been for awhile now....

you cannot expect to legislate, then usurp w/o there being a cost carrying that position....

it's only a "shame" when people become increasingly more stupid....

one can't fight the fight that way.....

Are you going to ark30inf's kegger of triumphant celebration? He, like you, is giddy over this decision.

Yep, I am giddy over it. Next time perhaps they will elect people who will actually keep the oath's they've taken or have enough honor to resign if they cannot.

How about the state of Kentucky not trample on someone's constitutional rights in order to allow two men or a man and a dog on a marriage license. The fix was easy. But the libturd dipshits wanted to FORCE her to go against her religious beliefs.

Religious beliefs are only protected if your Islamic, Wiccan or worship a tree or some other inanimate object. Christians need not apply so tuck your crucifix up under your hat.

(07-25-2017 11:15 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(07-25-2017 11:11 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  As if the original thread wasnt stupid enough, numbnuts Godzilla walks in and takes it to a newer level of stupid.

where the buffalos roam.....let dem 'good times' get trampled

After attending Catholic schools I left an agnostic. I still don't know what to believe but I've never criticized anyone for their faith or lack of it. And I'm not saying that's what you do as I've never witnessed it. You may be different than most atheists I've met though. I've found most of them insufferably arrogant in their opinions of those who believe in God.

I've read the bible from cover to cover and the NT twice and came away more confused than ever, not that it makes me a biblical scholar by any means. I do find the tenets advanced in the NT a valuable guide to how one should live their life in regards to how they treat themselves and others.

(07-27-2017 08:40 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(07-25-2017 11:15 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(07-25-2017 11:11 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  As if the original thread wasnt stupid enough, numbnuts Godzilla walks in and takes it to a newer level of stupid.

where the buffalos roam.....let dem 'good times' get trampled

After attending Catholic schools I left an agnostic. I still don't know what to believe but I've never criticized anyone for their faith or lack of it. And I'm not saying that's what you do as I've never witnessed it. You may be different than most atheists I've met though. I've found most of them insufferably arrogant in their opinions of those who believe in God.

I've read the bible from cover to cover and the NT twice and came away more confused than ever, not that it makes me a biblical scholar by any means. I do find the tenets advanced in the NT a valuable guide to how one should live their life in regards to how they treat themselves and others.

it's nice to see some actually don't paint with a broad brush of isolated thought within their skull cap......I never have.....it never made sense to me....

it's why line 3 before line 4 in sig.....I only punch when provoked....then it can get down and dirty....that's what's really scares the majority....

I know I'm a strange brew.....I have to live with me.....even my daughter calls me "goofy Dad" with a wry one....

one doesn't have to be cruel to display their 'logic in faith' (oxymoron it is)....one can only attempt to define as time passes....and as me brother has mentioned on many an occasion, "hey arsehole, you're honest to a fault"

some claim that's a character flaw....that's okay with me....

Thank You! for that response.....