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Saban's ideas for CFB: All P5 scheduling, expanded playoff
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Wedge Offline
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Saban's ideas for CFB: All P5 scheduling, expanded playoff
http://www.espn.com/college-football/sto...ll-playoff

Quote:"We should play all teams in the Power 5 conferences," Saban said Wednesday. "If we did that, then if we were going to have bowl games, we should do the bowl games just like we do in the NCAA basketball tournament -- not by record but by some kind of power rating that gets you in a bowl game. If we did that, people would be a little less interested in maybe bowl games and more interested in expanding the playoff."
Quote:Saban suggested a 10-game SEC schedule, for example, plus two Power 5 nonconference opponents during the regular season. Florida State coach Jimbo Fisher on Tuesday expressed similar thoughts to ESPN about nonconference scheduling in the playoff era.

"There's not enough games of interconference play to help judge how you're rating each league," Fisher said. "We get caught up in 'that league's the best league this year.' For instance, last year it was Big Ten, Big Ten. All of a sudden the ACC spanks them to death in bowl games, major games, big games. But maybe during that time of the year, [the Big Ten] was better. I think they do have a hard job because of only picking four teams."
07-26-2017 06:09 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Saban's ideas for CFB: All P5 scheduling, expanded playoff
I'll take the 10 conf games. No thanks on more P5 noncnf games.

Let bowl matchups decide which conf is better than another. 07-coffee3
07-26-2017 06:21 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: Saban's ideas for CFB: All P5 scheduling, expanded playoff
(07-26-2017 06:21 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  I'll take the 10 conf games. No thanks on more P5 noncnf games.

Let bowl matchups decide which conf is better than another. 07-coffee3

I don't know about expanded playoffs but two years ago when I said that the networks were pushing for an all P schedule the rank and file hooted how that would never and could never happen. I guess Nick talking about it makes it okay and possible? It will take some time yet to get there because the conferences are going to sell each additional game 1 at a time to milk the payouts. But clearly we are headed there and it is also why there are those talking up the G5 playoff aspect.

If the networks want an expanded playoff we'll probably drop the conference championship games and everyone's #2 will be pitted against someone else's #1 in the opening round. Then the winners play it off.

If we keep conference championships it will remain a P4 but the CCG will be the expansion so to speak.

But the tone is set, we will eventually play only a P schedule. Unless they add a 13th which would take the place of the Spring Games and offcially be a preseason game in mid to late August, and then that game may be against an in state G5.

We'll see.
07-26-2017 07:12 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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RE: Saban's ideas for CFB: All P5 scheduling, expanded playoff
I do not want to see an expanded playoff. Hell, I don't even want the playoff.
07-26-2017 07:15 PM
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Wolfman Offline
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RE: Saban's ideas for CFB: All P5 scheduling, expanded playoff
I'm OK with 1 G5/FCS game per season. Sort of a pre-season game. I believe this would help schools struggling to get a home/home series because so many schools are scheduling 2 for 1s or 1 and dones.

I don't think scheduling a P5 team isn't necessarily going to improve your SOS or CFP standing.
07-26-2017 08:10 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: Saban's ideas for CFB: All P5 scheduling, expanded playoff
Saban says the 6-win bowl threshold causes teams to schedule softly, but it's more than that. Teams want fat W-L records to keep the donor dollars flowing, and they want cupcakes on the schedule to keep the W-L records fat.

Coaches and ADs who are now trying to win 7 or 8 or 9 to keep the donors happy don't want to be forced to convince those egotistical rich guy boosters that winning fewer games is still OK just because the schedule is more difficult. I think that fact is an obstacle that Saban's plan will never be able to overcome.
07-26-2017 09:28 PM
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RE: Saban's ideas for CFB: All P5 scheduling, expanded playoff
I'm all for more more games against the big boys and fewer cupcakes. I would be happy with mandating that everyone play 10 P5s but if Nck and the rest of the establishment want to go for 12 I'm all for it. I'd even be willing to let everyone play a 13th game at home against someone from outside the cartel so that everyone gets another home date and the gate revenue.

I like an expanded playoff too. 8 seems fair with the first round at higher seeds' home.
(This post was last modified: 07-26-2017 09:30 PM by Fighting Muskie.)
07-26-2017 09:29 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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RE: Saban's ideas for CFB: All P5 scheduling, expanded playoff
Where do I sign up?

I say expand the playoff to 8, but no more.

Let the leagues keep the conference championship games though. Winners get an auto-bid to the playoff. The other 4 can be chosen at-large. I'm assuming there will only be a P4 by the time this sort of thing could be arranged thus 4 auto-bids.

I'm ok with adding a 13th as long as its against an FCS or G5. Maybe that can be the traditional homecoming game or something so everyone gets that 7th home game.
07-27-2017 01:11 AM
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AllTideUp Offline
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RE: Saban's ideas for CFB: All P5 scheduling, expanded playoff
(07-26-2017 08:10 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  I don't think scheduling a P5 team isn't necessarily going to improve your SOS or CFP standing.

Over time it would. If P5s start playing each other exclusively then all the money is kept in house and eventually the talent disparity grows even more. The vast, vast majority of players will want to be in the top division.

The scholarship limits will mitigate this to some degree, but eventually getting an offer from a lower level P5 will be considered more prestigious than getting the offer from a consistent winner at the G5 level.
07-27-2017 01:15 AM
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RE: Saban's ideas for CFB: All P5 scheduling, expanded playoff
(07-26-2017 06:21 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  I'll take the 10 conf games. No thanks on more P5 noncnf games.

Let bowl matchups decide which conf is better than another. 07-coffee3


I am for all P5 games for all P5 schools, with less conference games and more interesting intersectional games.
07-27-2017 06:59 AM
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XLance Online
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RE: Saban's ideas for CFB: All P5 scheduling, expanded playoff
What you have heard and read are the seeds of bowl elimination replaced by a round of playoffs.
If you can seed all of the teams with expanded P5 play, then you have a basis of the first round of the tournament, which could be played out over the month of December.
The Weed Eater bowl and the Sun Bowl will still exist, but the teams will be selected by seeding in a first round that will last a month instead of a weekend.
Why would those thoughts be coming from the SEC and the ACC?
Do you know who owns all of the bowls (sans two or three)?

If the Weed Eater bowl is a tournament game instead of a minor bowl game in Shreveport, do you think that viewership (advertising rates) would go up?
(This post was last modified: 07-27-2017 07:06 AM by XLance.)
07-27-2017 07:03 AM
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Post: #12
RE: Saban's ideas for CFB: All P5 scheduling, expanded playoff
(07-27-2017 01:15 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(07-26-2017 08:10 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  I don't think scheduling a P5 team isn't necessarily going to improve your SOS or CFP standing.

Over time it would. If P5s start playing each other exclusively then all the money is kept in house and eventually the talent disparity grows even more. The vast, vast majority of players will want to be in the top division.

The scholarship limits will mitigate this to some degree, but eventually getting an offer from a lower level P5 will be considered more prestigious than getting the offer from a consistent winner at the G5 level.

Wonder if the P5 will do this by agreeing with the G5 to not raise scholarship limits like I have heard talked about. Alot of guys would rather be the second string player on a big name team than a starter on a no name team, I would think.
07-27-2017 09:04 AM
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megadrone Offline
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RE: Saban's ideas for CFB: All P5 scheduling, expanded playoff
It will only pass muster if the P5 truly separates to a 3rd Div 1 subdivision recognized by the NCAA.

If there is a concerted effort to only schedule within this nearly-real subdivision, "collusion" will be shouted and something will happen in the US Senate. Watch Sen. Richard Blumenthal very closely.
07-27-2017 09:09 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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RE: Saban's ideas for CFB: All P5 scheduling, expanded playoff
(07-26-2017 07:12 PM)JRsec Wrote:  If the networks want an expanded playoff we'll probably drop the conference championship games and everyone's #2 will be pitted against someone else's #1 in the opening round. Then the winners play it off.

If we keep conference championships it will remain a P4 but the CCG will be the expansion so to speak.

But the tone is set, we will eventually play only a P schedule. Unless they add a 13th which would take the place of the Spring Games and offcially be a preseason game in mid to late August, and then that game may be against an in state G5.

We'll see.

You could be exactly right. As you say, we'll see.

IMO, the playoff has a hard ceiling at eight. To get rid of CCG's, the confs would have to be compensated accordingly (perhaps $50-100M per conference additional for the loss of the CCG TV revenue). Then the only way your #1/#2 cross games happen, which would be a fun way to do it, would only work if we can boil the top down to a P4. I'm not against that, at all, but I'm also not a firm believer that P4 is destiny. Would also require a firm, official lock-out of G conf teams and independents. That's another tough pill to force down.


(07-27-2017 06:59 AM)TerryD Wrote:  I am for all P5 games for all P5 schools, with less conference games and more interesting intersectional games.

That's what bowl matchups are for. Keep it provincial during the regular season.
(This post was last modified: 07-27-2017 09:14 AM by MplsBison.)
07-27-2017 09:13 AM
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RE: Saban's ideas for CFB: All P5 scheduling, expanded playoff
(07-26-2017 07:12 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-26-2017 06:21 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  I'll take the 10 conf games. No thanks on more P5 noncnf games.

Let bowl matchups decide which conf is better than another. 07-coffee3

I don't know about expanded playoffs but two years ago when I said that the networks were pushing for an all P schedule the rank and file hooted how that would never and could never happen. I guess Nick talking about it makes it okay and possible? It will take some time yet to get there because the conferences are going to sell each additional game 1 at a time to milk the payouts. But clearly we are headed there and it is also why there are those talking up the G5 playoff aspect.

If the networks want an expanded playoff we'll probably drop the conference championship games and everyone's #2 will be pitted against someone else's #1 in the opening round. Then the winners play it off.

If we keep conference championships it will remain a P4 but the CCG will be the expansion so to speak.

But the tone is set, we will eventually play only a P schedule. Unless they add a 13th which would take the place of the Spring Games and offcially be a preseason game in mid to late August, and then that game may be against an in state G5.

We'll see.

Two points. 1) I doubt CCG will go away when the conference can keep all the money from them versus having to share playoff money. Plus in some years, an Alabama/LSU 1 vs. 2 (or TN-Ole Miss, etc), would be much more meaningful than even a quarterfinal.

2) I think a spring game type deal with an in-state G5 would be the only way to make this work legally. Don't some states still have some required P5/G5 games in their laws? I'm thinking like South Carolina having to play South Carolina State or Wofford type deals.

I'd also expect an eventual push to 14 games. Rationale: Most teams would like the pre-season game set up, but they may also want a G5 homecoming game. So:

10 game conference schedule
2 P5 marquee matchups (regional? in state rivals? national powerhouse made for TV kickoff games?)
1 G5 "spring game"
1 Homecoming G5 game

So TN for instance could play Alabama every year, rotate through the SEC quickly depending on the number of teams, play someone like Virginia Tech/WVU/UNC/NC State in their first P5 matchup, then play like FSU/Ohio State/Michigan types in their second, then play someone like ETSU/MTSU in the spring game and the other in their homecoming game.
07-27-2017 09:17 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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RE: Saban's ideas for CFB: All P5 scheduling, expanded playoff
Soob, I think your #1 could be solved by simply guaranteeing each P conf (would have to be a P4 at that point) an additional $50-100M on top of whatever else as compensation for agreeing to essentially trade in the CCG for a playoff quarter final involving two conf teams (their #1 vs some other conf #2, and their #2 vs some other conf #1). Guessing they'd rig it up so that all four quarter-final games would be played at the former BCS bowls. Then the semi-finals and championship would be neutral sites, essentially a +3 on top of bowls. Would mean the Peach and Cotton would be "relegated" back to being like a Citrus.
(This post was last modified: 07-27-2017 09:24 AM by MplsBison.)
07-27-2017 09:22 AM
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RE: Saban's ideas for CFB: All P5 scheduling, expanded playoff
(07-27-2017 09:13 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(07-26-2017 07:12 PM)JRsec Wrote:  If the networks want an expanded playoff we'll probably drop the conference championship games and everyone's #2 will be pitted against someone else's #1 in the opening round. Then the winners play it off.

If we keep conference championships it will remain a P4 but the CCG will be the expansion so to speak.

But the tone is set, we will eventually play only a P schedule. Unless they add a 13th which would take the place of the Spring Games and offcially be a preseason game in mid to late August, and then that game may be against an in state G5.

We'll see.

You could be exactly right. As you say, we'll see.

IMO, the playoff has a hard ceiling at eight. To get rid of CCG's, the confs would have to be compensated accordingly (perhaps $50-100M per conference additional for the loss of the CCG TV revenue). Then the only way your #1/#2 cross games happen, which would be a fun way to do it, would only work if we can boil the top down to a P4. I'm not against that, at all, but I'm also not a firm believer that P4 is destiny. Would also require a firm, official lock-out of G conf teams and independents. That's another tough pill to force down.

Not if the G5 establishes it's own playoff first. Why do you think some of their coaches keep re-introducing the idea? They know, or have been told, that if they want more revenue and publicity, that this is the network approved way to go about it.

Now this won't keep some of their A.D.'s from rebelling for a while longer, but when the fiscal disparity that the networks have baked in starts to sink in on them and the gap between P5 and G5 revenue continues to widen, they will eventually cave.

In the meantime the P5 has time to whittle itself down to a P4 and about 6 or 7 years for the gap to grow and reality to do its work.

So for now Saban will push the conversation for all P games, disparity and crappy bowls will erode resistance at the G level, and the networks might well wrangle in the next set of deals that 10th P game for now and the networks will be that much closer to finishing the product placement they set out to get, and in doing so wresting the CCG's away from the conferences, and getting those cross conference games that tie in 2 complete regions of the country every time they are played.

Also, I imagine they will over a handsome payday try to rid themselves of the CCGs. Georgia against Michigan in Ann Arbor and Penn State against Southern Cal in Los Angeles makes a helluva a lot more money than Georgia against Alabama, Washington against Southern Cal, and Michigan against Penn State in that first round.
(This post was last modified: 07-27-2017 11:38 AM by JRsec.)
07-27-2017 11:01 AM
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RE: Saban's ideas for CFB: All P5 scheduling, expanded playoff
That is all possible
(This post was last modified: 07-27-2017 11:18 AM by MplsBison.)
07-27-2017 11:17 AM
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RE: Saban's ideas for CFB: All P5 scheduling, expanded playoff
(07-27-2017 11:01 AM)JRsec Wrote:  getting those cross conference games that tie in 2 complete regions of the country every time they are played.


This has been part of the TV formula for a long, long time. Would TV like an extra P5 vs. P5 non-conference game built into everyone's schedules -- 32 more of those games to choose from every year -- sure they would. It's a question of whether they're willing to pay for it and how much.

It also has to be something that everyone is doing, some arrangement that puts the same number of P5 games on every team's schedule. If not, someone will veto it because it's making their schedule harder than the schedules of potential competitors for CFP playoff spots.
07-27-2017 12:21 PM
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RE: Saban's ideas for CFB: All P5 scheduling, expanded playoff
(07-27-2017 09:13 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(07-26-2017 07:12 PM)JRsec Wrote:  If the networks want an expanded playoff we'll probably drop the conference championship games and everyone's #2 will be pitted against someone else's #1 in the opening round. Then the winners play it off.

If we keep conference championships it will remain a P4 but the CCG will be the expansion so to speak.

But the tone is set, we will eventually play only a P schedule. Unless they add a 13th which would take the place of the Spring Games and offcially be a preseason game in mid to late August, and then that game may be against an in state G5.

We'll see.

You could be exactly right. As you say, we'll see.

IMO, the playoff has a hard ceiling at eight. To get rid of CCG's, the confs would have to be compensated accordingly (perhaps $50-100M per conference additional for the loss of the CCG TV revenue). Then the only way your #1/#2 cross games happen, which would be a fun way to do it, would only work if we can boil the top down to a P4. I'm not against that, at all, but I'm also not a firm believer that P4 is destiny. Would also require a firm, official lock-out of G conf teams and independents. That's another tough pill to force down.


(07-27-2017 06:59 AM)TerryD Wrote:  I am for all P5 games for all P5 schools, with less conference games and more interesting intersectional games.

That's what bowl matchups are for. Keep it provincial during the regular season.


My entire view of college football is different than yours. I don't care for provincial.

I am not interested in annual conference matchups like Michigan v. Ohio State and LSU v. Alabama. Ho hum. Rinse and repeat.

I am more interested in Alabama v. Michigan and LSU v. Ohio State.

I want intersectional matchups between schools from different conferences. That is the true indicator of the strength of teams residing in different areas of the country.
(This post was last modified: 07-27-2017 01:59 PM by TerryD.)
07-27-2017 01:57 PM
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