(07-21-2017 09:33 AM)Phlipper33 Wrote:  I don't think there are any games that are "essential" anymore. Just look at what happened in the Big 12

Nebraska/Oklahoma ended
A&M/Texas ended
Kansas/Missouri ended

If none of those are "essential", I don't think there's any that fit that category.

This. What happened to those 3 rivalries has honestly started to kill my interest in the sport.

(07-25-2017 01:16 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(07-25-2017 09:17 AM)mpurdy22 Wrote:  

(07-21-2017 10:41 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-21-2017 10:27 AM)WesternSkillet Wrote:  Top MAC rivalries...

Ohio/Miami
WMU/CMU
Toledo/BGSU

Miami-Cincinnati is the 2nd most played rivalry after Minnesota-Wisconsin.

Bump-Miami-U.C. Miami needs a win badly this year though. U.C. is catching up to our win advantage in the series.

This is likely your best opportunity to do it in a long time(Miami has lost 11 straight). You guys return an experienced group and UC is extremely young (49 freshmen on the roster) with a 1st year head coach. The game is at your place and at night so I would expect a decent crowd for once.

That being said, as I posted earlier in this thread, despite the longevity of this series it is hard to call this a rivalry anymore. The game garners no national pub and rarely even gets on TV (this year it will be on the local Spectrum Channel). To take a turn off the old saying "If a tree falls in the woods...' , if the game is played and nobody knows about it is it really a rivalry?

If the U.C. upward trajectory continues, yes the rivalry will be lost. However, the game never garnered that much national attention. But to Miami fans at least, this is a huge rivalry. I "despise" U.C. more than Ohio U.

(07-23-2017 08:51 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(07-23-2017 06:46 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  App State vs Georgia Southern. This one is the real deal.
App State vs Marshall. Always a dogfight back in 1-aa. Series will be renewed in 2021.

I just bought a second home in Grayson County, VA. It is about 45 minutes from Boone.

I plan on catching a game at Appalachian State every now and then. Looking forward to it.

If you don't know already, you might want to catch some HS hoops in Mouth of Wilson now and then if BB is a thing of yours. Some of those teams may be better than some DI teams.

(07-26-2017 11:56 AM)Tigeer Wrote:  

(07-23-2017 08:51 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(07-23-2017 06:46 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  App State vs Georgia Southern. This one is the real deal.
App State vs Marshall. Always a dogfight back in 1-aa. Series will be renewed in 2021.

I just bought a second home in Grayson County, VA. It is about 45 minutes from Boone.

I plan on catching a game at Appalachian State every now and then. Looking forward to it.

If you don't know already, you might want to catch some HS hoops in Mouth of Wilson now and then if BB is a thing of yours. Some of those teams may be better than some DI teams.

Yep, my property is about eight miles from Oak Hill Academy.

(07-21-2017 10:17 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Can't ever see Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Iowa not being on each others regular season schedule every year, no matter what.

Iowa missed playing Wisconsin several times when I was a kid in the 80's and 90's. (I grew up in Iowa) Iowa vs Minnesota was typically the last game of the season and that game never got skipped.

(07-21-2017 08:50 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Which currently existing FBS and FCS rivalries are absolutely essential to protect as annual matchups in any sort of realignment? This includes matchups that may end up as out-of-conference games.

Here is an attempt at a full listing of current "essential" rivalries among FBS schools. These have been continuously played for at least 30 years and are all listed on Wikipedia. Excluded are longtime annual matchups which (to the best of my judgment) have continued mainly because the schools share a conference or division and not due to any particular rivalry (e.g., NC State/Wake Forest, played continuously since 1910). In parentheses is the first year of the active run of annual matchups for each pair.

To the OP, how do you determine which rivalries are essential and which are not? I'll give you an example of one which would be considered essential for one team, but non-essential for the other: Michigan State-Penn State. Awful looking trophy aside (there's a stamp commemorating both of the two as the first land grant colleges that I think would make a for a much better trophy, IMO), Michigan State considers the Land Grant Trophy game to be a big rivalry for them. However, Penn State refuses to this day to consider that game to be a rivalry, and rather considers Ohio State, Michigan, and even Pittsburgh to be their true rivals. Who do you go with? Michigan State or Penn State?

The only thing that is essential in college football is $$$$$. The one game that should never go away is Army - Navy. The rest will depend on the aforementioned $$$$$. If you don't believe that you are stuck in 1982. Look at the conferences as they currently exist. P-5, G-5...whatever you want to call them. They are a spread out joke with little to no rivalries.

(07-29-2017 01:08 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(07-21-2017 08:50 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Which currently existing FBS and FCS rivalries are absolutely essential to protect as annual matchups in any sort of realignment? This includes matchups that may end up as out-of-conference games.

Here is an attempt at a full listing of current "essential" rivalries among FBS schools. These have been continuously played for at least 30 years and are all listed on Wikipedia. Excluded are longtime annual matchups which (to the best of my judgment) have continued mainly because the schools share a conference or division and not due to any particular rivalry (e.g., NC State/Wake Forest, played continuously since 1910). In parentheses is the first year of the active run of annual matchups for each pair.

To the OP, how do you determine which rivalries are essential and which are not? I'll give you an example of one which would be considered essential for one team, but non-essential for the other: Michigan State-Penn State. Awful looking trophy aside (there's a stamp commemorating both of the two as the first land grant colleges that I think would make a for a much better trophy, IMO), Michigan State considers the Land Grant Trophy game to be a big rivalry for them. However, Penn State refuses to this day to consider that game to be a rivalry, and rather considers Ohio State, Michigan, and even Pittsburgh to be their true rivals. Who do you go with? Michigan State or Penn State?

To be essential, I assume it would have to be mutual.

Yeah, but they aren't yearly, and there are gaps. For instance, I don't think that Pitt-PSU had been played since 1991 until last year.
[/quote]

2000.

It was the biggest rivalry between both teams and easily the entire Northeast for 50 years until Joe Paterno ended it. Pitt-WVU was the second biggest. They're also still the two most played outside of Army-Navy and easily still the most heated between fan bases whether they are being played or not.

(07-29-2017 09:31 AM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  Yeah, but they aren't yearly, and there are gaps. For instance, I don't think that Pitt-PSU had been played since 1991 until last year.

2000.

It was the biggest rivalry between both teams and easily the entire Northeast for 50 years until Joe Paterno ended it. Pitt-WVU was the second biggest. They're also still the two most played outside of Army-Navy and easily still the most heated between fan bases whether they are being played or not.
[/quote]

But can it really be called "essential" if there was a 15 year gap and cfb thrived during that time frame? The same is said for Pitt-WVU.

Like I said in my OP, I think those rivalries (and a handful of others) are essential to maintaining CFB interest in the northeast, but they aren't essential to the game itself.

Besides the 46 "essential" matchups listed in the OP, there are 38 other current FBS matchups that have been played annually for at least 30 years. I don't believe that any of these are essential, but feel free to correct me, as I'm no expert.

Non-essential(?) rivalries of 30+ years:

Air Force/Wyoming (1980)
Alabama/LSU (1964)
Alabama/Mississippi State (1948)
Arkansas/Ole Miss (1981)
Auburn/Mississippi State (1955)
Ball State/Central Michigan (1977)
Ball State/Eastern Michigan (1973)
Ball State/Toledo (1975)
Baylor/Texas (1945)
Baylor/Texas Tech (1956)
California/USC (1926)
Central Michigan/Eastern Michigan (1972)
Central Michigan/Toledo (1975)
Clemson/NC State (1971)
Clemson/Wake Forest (1953)
Duke/Georgia Tech (1933)
Duke/Virginia (1963)
Duke/Wake Forest (1967)
Eastern Michigan/Toledo (1977)
Eastern Michigan/Western Michigan (1978)
Florida/Kentucky (1967)
Florida/LSU (1971)
Georgia/Kentucky (1956)
Georgia/Vanderbilt (1968)
Georgia Tech/North Carolina (1980)
Georgia Tech/Virginia (1982)
Iowa State/Kansas (1932)
Iowa State/Kansas State (1917)
Kent State/Miami-OH (1955)
Kent State/Ohio (1949)
Kentucky/Vanderbilt (1953)
LSU/Mississippi State (1944)
NC State/Wake Forest (1910)
Ole Miss/Vanderbilt (1970)
Pittsburgh/Syracuse (1955)
Stanford/UCLA (1946)
Texas/Texas Tech (1960)
Toledo/Western Michigan (1950)

(07-29-2017 09:32 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Besides the 46 "essential" matchups listed in the OP, there are 38 other current FBS matchups that have been played annually for at least 30 years. I don't believe that any of these are essential, but feel free to correct me, as I'm no expert.

Non-essential(?) rivalries of 30+ years:

Air Force/Wyoming (1980)
Alabama/LSU (1964)
Alabama/Mississippi State (1948)
Arkansas/Ole Miss (1981)
Auburn/Mississippi State (1955)
Ball State/Central Michigan (1977)
Ball State/Eastern Michigan (1975)
Ball State/Toledo (1975)
Baylor/Texas (1945)
Baylor/Texas Tech (1956)
California/USC (1926)
Central Michigan/Eastern Michigan (1975)
Central Michigan/Toledo (1975)
Clemson/NC State (1971)
Clemson/Wake Forest (1953)
Duke/Georgia Tech (1933)
Duke/Virginia (1963)
Duke/Wake Forest (1967)
Eastern Michigan/Toledo (1977)
Eastern Michigan/Western Michigan (1978)
Florida/Kentucky (1967)
Florida/LSU (1971)
Georgia/Kentucky (1956)
Georgia/Vanderbilt (1968)
Georgia Tech/North Carolina (1980)
Georgia Tech/Virginia (1982)
Iowa State/Kansas (1932)
Iowa State/Kansas State (1917)
Kent State/Miami-OH (1955)
Kent State/Ohio (1949)
Kentucky/Vanderbilt (1953)
LSU/Mississippi State (1944)
NC State/Wake Forest (1910)
Ole Miss/Vanderbilt (1970)
Pittsburgh/Syracuse (1955)
Stanford/UCLA (1946)
Texas/Texas Tech (1960)
Toledo/Western Michigan (1950)

Alabama/LSU hasn't historically been much of a rivalry. That's pretty recent, especially with Saban.

Alabama/MSU is the second/third most important rivalry for MSU, even though most UA fans wouldn't put it very high on our list--if at all.

(07-21-2017 09:50 AM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  GT and Duke - played every year since 41.

NC State and WF - played since the 19th Century

LP4, Duke and GT have played every year since '33 (not 1941).

(07-29-2017 01:08 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(07-21-2017 08:50 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Which currently existing FBS and FCS rivalries are absolutely essential to protect as annual matchups in any sort of realignment? This includes matchups that may end up as out-of-conference games.

Here is an attempt at a full listing of current "essential" rivalries among FBS schools. These have been continuously played for at least 30 years and are all listed on Wikipedia. Excluded are longtime annual matchups which (to the best of my judgment) have continued mainly because the schools share a conference or division and not due to any particular rivalry (e.g., NC State/Wake Forest, played continuously since 1910). In parentheses is the first year of the active run of annual matchups for each pair.

To the OP, how do you determine which rivalries are essential and which are not? I'll give you an example of one which would be considered essential for one team, but non-essential for the other: Michigan State-Penn State. Awful looking trophy aside (there's a stamp commemorating both of the two as the first land grant colleges that I think would make a for a much better trophy, IMO), Michigan State considers the Land Grant Trophy game to be a big rivalry for them. However, Penn State refuses to this day to consider that game to be a rivalry, and rather considers Ohio State, Michigan, and even Pittsburgh to be their true rivals. Who do you go with? Michigan State or Penn State?

I'd go with Penn St. Michigan St's true rival is Michigan. Were it not for Ohio St, Michigan St would be playing Michigan the last game in the season.

(07-30-2017 07:22 AM)Bronco14 Wrote:  

(07-29-2017 01:08 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(07-21-2017 08:50 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Which currently existing FBS and FCS rivalries are absolutely essential to protect as annual matchups in any sort of realignment? This includes matchups that may end up as out-of-conference games.

Here is an attempt at a full listing of current "essential" rivalries among FBS schools. These have been continuously played for at least 30 years and are all listed on Wikipedia. Excluded are longtime annual matchups which (to the best of my judgment) have continued mainly because the schools share a conference or division and not due to any particular rivalry (e.g., NC State/Wake Forest, played continuously since 1910). In parentheses is the first year of the active run of annual matchups for each pair.

To the OP, how do you determine which rivalries are essential and which are not? I'll give you an example of one which would be considered essential for one team, but non-essential for the other: Michigan State-Penn State. Awful looking trophy aside (there's a stamp commemorating both of the two as the first land grant colleges that I think would make a for a much better trophy, IMO), Michigan State considers the Land Grant Trophy game to be a big rivalry for them. However, Penn State refuses to this day to consider that game to be a rivalry, and rather considers Ohio State, Michigan, and even Pittsburgh to be their true rivals. Who do you go with? Michigan State or Penn State?

I'd go with Penn St. Michigan St's true rival is Michigan. Were it not for Ohio St, Michigan St would be playing Michigan the last game in the season.

I'd be amazed if MSU sees PSU as a rival. That game always seemed like a forced rivalry with an ugly trophy. MSU has a legitimate big-time in-conference rival. PSU doesn't (Ohio State vs Penn State is about as much as a rivalry as Ohio Stare vs any other good team). So given that PSU "needs" to care about it and doesn't, I'd be amazed if MSU, who doesn't "need" to care about it, does.

I'll also note that during the 2011-13 Legends/Leaders setup, MSU and PSU were in separate divisions without a protected crossover and didn't play for those three years.

(07-29-2017 11:30 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(07-29-2017 09:31 AM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  Yeah, but they aren't yearly, and there are gaps. For instance, I don't think that Pitt-PSU had been played since 1991 until last year.

2000.

It was the biggest rivalry between both teams and easily the entire Northeast for 50 years until Joe Paterno ended it. Pitt-WVU was the second biggest. They're also still the two most played outside of Army-Navy and easily still the most heated between fan bases whether they are being played or not.

But can it really be called "essential" if there was a 15 year gap and cfb thrived during that time frame? The same is said for Pitt-WVU.

Like I said in my OP, I think those rivalries (and a handful of others) are essential to maintaining CFB interest in the northeast, but they aren't essential to the game itself.
[/quote]

I don't know...I think it's essential. People remember it and still desire it. Just because of bunch of stupid, unaccountable ivory tower snobs, or a miserable enabler dismissed it for personal gain doesn't mean it wasn't valued.

There are plenty of people who still aren't on the PSU-B1G thing, and the scandal exposed how potentially big that was. And, while Pitt trolls (not all Pitt folks) like to pick on us PSU folks like we're the lowest hanging fruit, not all of us were/are/will ever be keen on whatever political maneuvering there was by Jordan, Spanier, and Paterno against Pitt for Big Ten inclusion. Those losers failed us fans for not even going to bat to retain key rivalries just so the school could look like it just hot-shot a bunch of other schools, most of whom, would have given PSU anything they wanted to stay on the yearly schedule.

I don't think Pitt was seriously considered by the Big Ten in the latest round of realignment. Unfortunately they don't offer much more than what the Big Ten already gets from PSU.

Though it is scheduling precluded at the moment, I'd also argue for Georgia Tech and Auburn. Though not intense, I'd say Georgia Tech and Duke is also looked at fondly by both sides.

I'm happy to see GT/Clemson properly listed.

A while back (I forgot I did this until today), I compiled a list of the number of matchups between every FBS school and created conferences based on the largest numbers of matchups. I had a couple rules:

1. No independents.
2. A large number of matchups (ex. Cincinnati vs. Miami OH) doesn't matter unless the schools share long-standing rivals.

Some of the conferences were forced due to a lack of having many long-standing rivalries. Most of the conferences that developed through this fun project are essentially older versions of current conferences. I can show the stats later, but they're extensive. I put no bias into the work. Some of its seems odd and nonsensical (even to me) but I did my best to make it work. Also, this is pre-Liberty and pre-Idaho to Big Sky.

ACC: Clemson, Duke, Florida St, Maryland, North Carolina, North Carolina St, South Carolina, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest

BIG-8: Colorado, Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St, Missouri, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St

B1G: Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan, Michigan St, Minnesota, Northwestern, Notre Dame, Ohio St, Purdue, Wisconsin

CUSA: Arkansas St, Central Florida, Florida Atlantic, Florida International, UL Lafayette, UL Monroe, Louisiana Tech, Middle Tennessee St, North Texas, Troy, UAB, Western Kentucky

Eastern-12: Army, Boston College, Connecticut, Miami FL, Navy, Penn St, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, South Florida, Syracuse, Temple, West Virginia

Metro: Cincinnati, East Carolina, Louisville, Memphis, Southern Miss, Tulsa

MAC: Akron, Ball St, Bowling Green, Buffalo, Central Michigan, Eastern Michigan, Kent St, Marshall, Massachusetts, Miami OH, Northern Illinois, Ohio, Toledo, Western Michigan

Mountain West: Air Force, BYU, Colorado St, Hawaii, New Mexico, San Diego St, UNLV, Utah, UTEP, Wyoming

PAC-10: Arizona, Arizona St, California, Oregon, Oregon St, Stanford, UCLA, USC, Washington, Washington St

PCC: Boise St, Fresno St, Idaho, Nevada, New Mexico St, San Jose St, Utah St

SEC: Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Kentucky, LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi St, Tennessee, Tulane, Vanderbilt

SWC: Arkansas, Baylor, Houston, Rice, SMU, TCU, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech

Sun Belt: Appalachian St, Charlotte, Coastal Carolina, Georgia Southern, Georgia St, Old Dominion, South Alabama, Texas St, UTSA