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Another How-Long-Should-CFB-Games-Be article
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Another How-Long-Should-CFB-Games-Be article
How much would YOU pay, for that? Tough to say now, because you get the action (minus commercial breaks) for free, without the annoyance of split-screen.

I think I'm too cheap to pay for it ... but there are people who live NFL Redzone, that's what like $300/year? That's almost $20 per game for 16 games ...
(This post was last modified: 07-21-2017 03:38 PM by MplsBison.)
07-21-2017 03:37 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Another How-Long-Should-CFB-Games-Be article
(07-21-2017 01:21 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-21-2017 12:40 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(07-20-2017 09:42 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-20-2017 08:16 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(07-20-2017 04:07 PM)Wedge Wrote:  That would be one good step.

Another good step would be to keep the clock running after incomplete passes. There are many game balls on the sidelines, and no need to wait for an incomplete pass ball to be retrieved; it takes no more time to get ready for the next play after an incomplete pass than after a 3-yard run up the middle. So keep the clock running and keep the game moving.

The issue isn't the game itself. Its the TV commercials. If you have ever been to an SEC game on the SEC Network, you would know. Those games last forever. The TV timeouts disrupt the flow of the game and add a good bit of time.

I totally agree. The Red Caps were the most frustrating presence ever introduced into our venues. It is absolutely a momentum killer and quite frankly it's an interest killer too!

I don't understand why the EPL/World Cup ad ticker hasn't been implemented yet.

Bingo! I wondered the same. It seems like the logical compromise. But I have a feeling that when they do this it will be monetized in a different way. For those who want to watch more cheaply they will be subjected to the crawler, or to the split screen. For those who want an ad free game they will have to purchase a premium package option at a substantial increase.

If they do that then those wanting the cheaper version lose some of their griping privileges.

That won't draw many subscribers unless the ad-free option is dirt cheap. The number of fans who want to pay even $75/season just to watch ad-free will be small, as in, less than the number of subscribers to the NBA or MLB "season passes". Probably also smaller than the number of free viewers that will be lost if the number of ads gets to be overbearing.

IMO there are no obvious options for significant time savings that don't either cost some party a lot of money or require significant rule changes. So the most they'll ever do is try and keep almost all CFB games at no longer than 3.5 hours, consistent with the commissioner quotes in the ESPN article.
07-21-2017 03:41 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Another How-Long-Should-CFB-Games-Be article
(07-20-2017 10:57 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(07-20-2017 10:53 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-20-2017 10:42 PM)Wedge Wrote:  The TV timeouts are not going away. TV outlets are paying huge sums of money to get them. At the same time, it's in CFB's interest to keep game times under control and find ways to keep the games moving while dealing with the limitations of the TV-mandated breaks.

Then I suggest a 10 to 15 minute break between quarters and less commercials during the quarters. I'm okay with a TV break after a score, but not after every change of possession.

Anything like that requires cooperation from TV. I think TV doesn't want longer breaks between quarters because they don't want to lose viewers, and they'd be very happy with limiting halftime to 15-20 minutes for the same reason. Lots of shorter breaks are better from that perspective though more annoying for us as fans. But that's speculation on my part.

I'd say I was in the minority then, except SEC venues average 77,500 in attendance and every danged one of them donated between $800 to $5,000 for the right to purchase a pair of season tickets which cost them another $1,100 on average. So in our region of the country I'd say a premium package which costs $300 for the season could be viable. But we'll see.
07-21-2017 04:32 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Another How-Long-Should-CFB-Games-Be article
(07-20-2017 10:42 PM)Wedge Wrote:  The TV timeouts are not going away. TV outlets are paying huge sums of money to get them. At the same time, it's in CFB's interest to keep game times under control and find ways to keep the games moving while dealing with the limitations of the TV-mandated breaks.

Most of the college games I watch on television are not the only game being played in that time slot. I have a device that lets me switch channels quickly if I don't want to watch a commercial, and quite often one of those other games isn't also on a commercial break. So I guess this isn't that big a problem for me. Especially since I don't have to pay extra for that device (it came with the television when I bought it).
07-21-2017 05:46 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Another How-Long-Should-CFB-Games-Be article
(07-21-2017 05:46 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(07-20-2017 10:42 PM)Wedge Wrote:  The TV timeouts are not going away. TV outlets are paying huge sums of money to get them. At the same time, it's in CFB's interest to keep game times under control and find ways to keep the games moving while dealing with the limitations of the TV-mandated breaks.

Most of the college games I watch on television are not the only game being played in that time slot. I have a device that lets me switch channels quickly if I don't want to watch a commercial, and quite often one of those other games isn't also on a commercial break. So I guess this isn't that big a problem for me. Especially since I don't have to pay extra for that device (it came with the television when I bought it).

Do you also have those things for seeing through walls (I think they are called windows)?
07-21-2017 07:16 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Another How-Long-Should-CFB-Games-Be article
(07-21-2017 07:16 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(07-21-2017 05:46 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(07-20-2017 10:42 PM)Wedge Wrote:  The TV timeouts are not going away. TV outlets are paying huge sums of money to get them. At the same time, it's in CFB's interest to keep game times under control and find ways to keep the games moving while dealing with the limitations of the TV-mandated breaks.

Most of the college games I watch on television are not the only game being played in that time slot. I have a device that lets me switch channels quickly if I don't want to watch a commercial, and quite often one of those other games isn't also on a commercial break. So I guess this isn't that big a problem for me. Especially since I don't have to pay extra for that device (it came with the television when I bought it).

Do you also have those things for seeing through walls (I think they are called windows)?

You do know that you guys have left out the most obvious reason the games are longer? Replay. It wasn't a problem when it was limited to coaches' challenges. It became a problem when every scoring call started being reviewed. Now by the time they get through playing every camera angle and ever tiptoe down the sideline it can easily add 5 minutes to a routine scoring play. I have no problem with reviewing a foot on a boundary line or whether a catch was completed, but really giving 5 angles for a dive over the goal line with agonizing minutes spent trying to figure out if an elbow or knee touched is just too much. I'd say you could save 20 minutes a game on those kinds of reviews without hurting anything but the obligatory commercial break every time a review is held.
07-21-2017 07:47 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Another How-Long-Should-CFB-Games-Be article
(07-21-2017 12:40 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(07-20-2017 09:42 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-20-2017 08:16 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(07-20-2017 04:07 PM)Wedge Wrote:  That would be one good step.

Another good step would be to keep the clock running after incomplete passes. There are many game balls on the sidelines, and no need to wait for an incomplete pass ball to be retrieved; it takes no more time to get ready for the next play after an incomplete pass than after a 3-yard run up the middle. So keep the clock running and keep the game moving.

The issue isn't the game itself. Its the TV commercials. If you have ever been to an SEC game on the SEC Network, you would know. Those games last forever. The TV timeouts disrupt the flow of the game and add a good bit of time.

I totally agree. The Red Caps were the most frustrating presence ever introduced into our venues. It is absolutely a momentum killer and quite frankly it's an interest killer too!

I don't understand why the EPL/World Cup ad ticker hasn't been implemented yet.

Exactly.

Soccer leagues around the world generate major TV revenue despite the fact the clock runs constantly.

The ribbon boards on the field are an easy way to show ads to both the TV audience and the fans in the stands. Not sure if you meant that or just using an ad ticker onscreen while the game is in play, but you could easily do both.

I'm absolutely, positively against split screens though. People hate commercials. It's the entire reason DVR was invented...to avoid the commercials. That and using a split screen would distract from the game. The ad ticker will do the trick.
07-21-2017 08:08 PM
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Wolfman Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Another How-Long-Should-CFB-Games-Be article
Broadcasters schedule in 30-minute blocks. To cut a broadcast by 30 minutes you need to shorten the game by 20 minutes or so (20 minutes of game time, 10 minutes of commercials). Even then I think the broadcasters will just add 20 minutes more of commercials.

I vote no to any split-screen gimmick for ads. Broadcasters will just abuse that too. Before you know it the screen will look like one of those shopping channels. So many overlays you won't be able to see the game. Let's get rid of some of the existing gimmicks too. Like the down and distance arrow with a Dr. Pepper logo.

There should be NO stopping the game for commercials. If you want to see every second of the game, go to the game. If something big happens while the broadcaster goes to commercial show a replay. That would cut the game down to 2 hours and allow you to broadcast a whole other game.
07-21-2017 08:43 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Another How-Long-Should-CFB-Games-Be article
(07-21-2017 08:08 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Soccer leagues around the world generate major TV revenue despite the fact the clock runs constantly.

They do, but the largest leagues are generating so much in TV revenue because they're selling TV rights worldwide, and getting significant money from countries other than their own.

And, more relevantly for the CFB discussion, the sideline ads visible during the entire soccer match generate a lot of revenue in the most popular leagues and tournaments. CFB and NFL telecasts can't run those ads -- which are a hell of a lot more effective than a split screen could ever be -- because American football teams' sidelines of players, coaches, and equipment block out the area where those ads are placed for soccer matches.
07-21-2017 11:38 PM
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Post: #30
RE: Another How-Long-Should-CFB-Games-Be article
(07-21-2017 11:38 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(07-21-2017 08:08 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Soccer leagues around the world generate major TV revenue despite the fact the clock runs constantly.

They do, but the largest leagues are generating so much in TV revenue because they're selling TV rights worldwide, and getting significant money from countries other than their own.

And, more relevantly for the CFB discussion, the sideline ads visible during the entire soccer match generate a lot of revenue in the most popular leagues and tournaments. CFB and NFL telecasts can't run those ads -- which are a hell of a lot more effective than a split screen could ever be -- because American football teams' sidelines of players, coaches, and equipment block out the area where those ads are placed for soccer matches.

This country has put men & women on the moon. There's no reason, IMO, why we can't adapt those ads to allow for the sidelines of players,coaches, and equipment!! 05-mafia And, while we're at it, I wouldn't mind changing the way jerseys look too. Still have the team colors & name & players' name (unless you're Notre Dame or have a long tradition of not having the players names on jerseys similar to Notre Dame), and the logo of the company that made the jersey, but add another logo (not quite the size of the Alaska Airlines logo on the Portland Timbers jerseys, but about half the size or a third of that size), and let local businesses actually sponsor an NFL, or an NCAA FBS or an FCS or an even a D2 team, and use the $$'s towards the helping out with student athletes' expenses or paying student athletes, something along those lines.
07-22-2017 12:09 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Another How-Long-Should-CFB-Games-Be article
(07-22-2017 12:09 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(07-21-2017 11:38 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(07-21-2017 08:08 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Soccer leagues around the world generate major TV revenue despite the fact the clock runs constantly.

They do, but the largest leagues are generating so much in TV revenue because they're selling TV rights worldwide, and getting significant money from countries other than their own.

And, more relevantly for the CFB discussion, the sideline ads visible during the entire soccer match generate a lot of revenue in the most popular leagues and tournaments. CFB and NFL telecasts can't run those ads -- which are a hell of a lot more effective than a split screen could ever be -- because American football teams' sidelines of players, coaches, and equipment block out the area where those ads are placed for soccer matches.

This country has put men & women on the moon. There's no reason, IMO, why we can't adapt those ads to allow for the sidelines of players,coaches, and equipment!! 05-mafia And, while we're at it, I wouldn't mind changing the way jerseys look too. Still have the team colors & name & players' name (unless you're Notre Dame or have a long tradition of not having the players names on jerseys similar to Notre Dame), and the logo of the company that made the jersey, but add another logo (not quite the size of the Alaska Airlines logo on the Portland Timbers jerseys, but about half the size or a third of that size), and let local businesses actually sponsor an NFL, or an NCAA FBS or an FCS or an even a D2 team, and use the $$'s towards the helping out with student athletes' expenses or paying student athletes, something along those lines.

The NFL could do more of that. But CFB is more constrained because every time they find a way to make more money for the big boy programs, they are adding weight to the argument that CFB players should be paid. Jim Delany already looks ridiculous enough insisting that football players should always be unpaid "student-athletes" while the Big Ten doubles its TV revenue every ten years.
07-22-2017 12:51 AM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Another How-Long-Should-CFB-Games-Be article
(07-21-2017 11:38 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(07-21-2017 08:08 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Soccer leagues around the world generate major TV revenue despite the fact the clock runs constantly.

They do, but the largest leagues are generating so much in TV revenue because they're selling TV rights worldwide, and getting significant money from countries other than their own.

And, more relevantly for the CFB discussion, the sideline ads visible during the entire soccer match generate a lot of revenue in the most popular leagues and tournaments. CFB and NFL telecasts can't run those ads -- which are a hell of a lot more effective than a split screen could ever be -- because American football teams' sidelines of players, coaches, and equipment block out the area where those ads are placed for soccer matches.

The international contracts are a part of it, but we're not talking about matching EPL revenue or the like. We're just talking about a more efficient way to make what we're already making so that the game experience is enhanced for both ticket buyer and TV audience.

You are correct about the football teams taking up all the space on the sideline, though, I wasn't really thinking about that. There's no reason we couldn't use the space behind the end zones though. That and we could paint additional logos on the field for sponsors. They do it during neutral site games and bowl games, no reason they can't do it on every other field. Of course, there's always the use of ad tickers on the TV broadcast alone. That wouldn't interfere with anything and would fulfill the goal of shortening commercial times.

I hesitated to say we could start putting sponsors on jerseys as I would rather some things still remain sacred, but I fully expect it to happen one day. I think it will have to become standard operating procedure for major pro sports here before the colleges will feel comfortable taking that plunge.
07-23-2017 05:06 PM
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Post: #33
RE: Another How-Long-Should-CFB-Games-Be article
(07-23-2017 05:06 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  [quote='Wedge' pid='14459524' dateline='1500698303']
[quote='AllTideUp' pid='14459256' dateline='1500685705']


I hesitated to say we could start putting sponsors on jerseys as I would rather some things still remain sacred, but I fully expect it to happen one day. I think it will have to become standard operating procedure for major pro sports here before the colleges will feel comfortable taking that plunge.

Well, take a look at bowl team jerseys. They're kinda small, but they have a logo of the bowl sponsor, and don't forget that they already have the logo of the jersey's maker. That's a subtle form of advertising too, when you really think about it.
07-24-2017 01:31 AM
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Post: #34
RE: Another How-Long-Should-CFB-Games-Be article
(07-23-2017 05:06 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(07-21-2017 11:38 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(07-21-2017 08:08 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Soccer leagues around the world generate major TV revenue despite the fact the clock runs constantly.

They do, but the largest leagues are generating so much in TV revenue because they're selling TV rights worldwide, and getting significant money from countries other than their own.

And, more relevantly for the CFB discussion, the sideline ads visible during the entire soccer match generate a lot of revenue in the most popular leagues and tournaments. CFB and NFL telecasts can't run those ads -- which are a hell of a lot more effective than a split screen could ever be -- because American football teams' sidelines of players, coaches, and equipment block out the area where those ads are placed for soccer matches.

The international contracts are a part of it, but we're not talking about matching EPL revenue or the like. We're just talking about a more efficient way to make what we're already making so that the game experience is enhanced for both ticket buyer and TV audience.

You are correct about the football teams taking up all the space on the sideline, though, I wasn't really thinking about that. There's no reason we couldn't use the space behind the end zones though. That and we could paint additional logos on the field for sponsors. They do it during neutral site games and bowl games, no reason they can't do it on every other field. Of course, there's always the use of ad tickers on the TV broadcast alone. That wouldn't interfere with anything and would fulfill the goal of shortening commercial times.

I hesitated to say we could start putting sponsors on jerseys as I would rather some things still remain sacred, but I fully expect it to happen one day. I think it will have to become standard operating procedure for major pro sports here before the colleges will feel comfortable taking that plunge.

They already do simulated signs like the marker to get to the first down. But TV would have to share in that.
07-24-2017 08:36 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Another How-Long-Should-CFB-Games-Be article
Getting back to the topic about limiting game times: The Pac-12 announced that, as an experiment this fall, non-conference games broadcast on PTN will have a 15-minute halftime instead of 20, as well as shorter "TV timeouts". Just minor tweaks, no major changes, as predicted.

Does anyone really want a 20-minute-long halftime any more? I assume that it's a relic carried over from years in which both teams' bands performed during halftime. Today, visiting teams' bands rarely perform a halftime show and some bring no band at all to road games.
07-26-2017 11:43 AM
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RE: Another How-Long-Should-CFB-Games-Be article
(07-26-2017 11:43 AM)Wedge Wrote:  Getting back to the topic about limiting game times: The Pac-12 announced that, as an experiment this fall, non-conference games broadcast on PTN will have a 15-minute halftime instead of 20, as well as shorter "TV timeouts". Just minor tweaks, no major changes, as predicted.

Does anyone really want a 20-minute-long halftime any more? I assume that it's a relic carried over from years in which both teams' bands performed during halftime. Today, visiting teams' bands rarely perform a halftime show and some bring no band at all to road games.

Wedge, it may be a hangover, but halftime was when the team discussed what was working and what wasn't and why. Then the coaches briefly met and the team's game plan was tweaked before heading back out. Twenty minutes is probably fine, but cutting it shorter effectively makes it meaningless as anything other than a long time out.

Also players with equipment problems need the time to get the equipment repaired or replaced. A lot of this is done now in real time during the games, but being able to strip down and refit the equipment is something that usually isn't done on the sideline.

So excuse me if I'm not a big fan of cutting the halftime down just to make the fans happy.
07-26-2017 12:12 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Another How-Long-Should-CFB-Games-Be article
On the other hand ... 20 mins is a long time to "stay warm". You're inevitably going to "cool off", when you're sitting around for 20 mins. 05-stirthepot
07-26-2017 12:26 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: Another How-Long-Should-CFB-Games-Be article
(07-26-2017 12:12 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-26-2017 11:43 AM)Wedge Wrote:  Getting back to the topic about limiting game times: The Pac-12 announced that, as an experiment this fall, non-conference games broadcast on PTN will have a 15-minute halftime instead of 20, as well as shorter "TV timeouts". Just minor tweaks, no major changes, as predicted.

Does anyone really want a 20-minute-long halftime any more? I assume that it's a relic carried over from years in which both teams' bands performed during halftime. Today, visiting teams' bands rarely perform a halftime show and some bring no band at all to road games.

Wedge, it may be a hangover, but halftime was when the team discussed what was working and what wasn't and why. Then the coaches briefly met and the team's game plan was tweaked before heading back out. Twenty minutes is probably fine, but cutting it shorter effectively makes it meaningless as anything other than a long time out.

Also players with equipment problems need the time to get the equipment repaired or replaced. A lot of this is done now in real time during the games, but being able to strip down and refit the equipment is something that usually isn't done on the sideline.

So excuse me if I'm not a big fan of cutting the halftime down just to make the fans happy.

That means that because they've always had 20 minutes, they've always found ways to use all 20 minutes. That's not the same thing as saying a 15-minute halftime can't work. I suppose we'll find out this fall after these Pac-12 non-con games whether coaches, after dealing with a 15-minute halftime, have strong objections. There will be 14 games using this "experiment". That should be enough data to find out whether any objections to a shorter halftime are significant.
(This post was last modified: 07-26-2017 01:46 PM by Wedge.)
07-26-2017 12:50 PM
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Post: #39
RE: Another How-Long-Should-CFB-Games-Be article
(07-24-2017 01:31 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(07-23-2017 05:06 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  [quote='Wedge' pid='14459524' dateline='1500698303']
[quote='AllTideUp' pid='14459256' dateline='1500685705']


I hesitated to say we could start putting sponsors on jerseys as I would rather some things still remain sacred, but I fully expect it to happen one day. I think it will have to become standard operating procedure for major pro sports here before the colleges will feel comfortable taking that plunge.

Well, take a look at bowl team jerseys. They're kinda small, but they have a logo of the bowl sponsor, and don't forget that they already have the logo of the jersey's maker. That's a subtle form of advertising too, when you really think about it.

Yeah, the schools get paid pretty good money for the apparel contracts and I'm sure the companies get their return in sold merchandise and advertising.

I'm not sure what the situation with bowl logos are. I wonder if the school gets paid to put that logo on there? If there's a sponsor on the logo then they really should get money outside of whatever money comes from participating in the game.

But yeah, they sort of do these things already.
07-26-2017 01:32 PM
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RE: Another How-Long-Should-CFB-Games-Be article
I like the idea someone posted earlier and do like soccer and have split screen commercials during down times.
07-29-2017 08:59 PM
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