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Raleigh group proposing $150 million MLS stadium
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mj4life Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Raleigh group proposing $150 million MLS stadium
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(07-22-2017 09:20 AM)msm96wolf Wrote:  
(07-20-2017 04:01 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  
(07-20-2017 03:21 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  If Jim Goodman is for it, NC State should be against it.

You're gonna have to explain that one. Being on the same side as Jim Goodman is generally a very good idea. He's got the money to make things happen.

I think you are confused between the Jim's. Dr. Goodknight is one of NCSU biggest benafactors and many get the two confused. Goodman to my knowledge has not done much to help NCSU. I am really surprised he didn't try and put the stadium in Durham. The true location should be Cary which is outside of Raleigh who built Soccer up in this area. I usually support anything to help the triangle area, but if Goodmon is involved, I am hoping this project does not succeed. Just my opinion.

MLS wants expansion teams to have stadium's near urban areas & millennial's. The thing that makes me laugh is the narrative that Malik is funding this stadium privately &only seeking infrastructure improvements . Just wait until he asks the city & county for 40-50 million to make those improvements. I doubt a stadium can be done for less than 250-300 million range on that site
(This post was last modified: 07-23-2017 04:25 PM by mj4life.)
07-23-2017 04:12 PM
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Wolfman Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Raleigh group proposing $150 million MLS stadium
I'm ok with bringing a MLS team to Raleigh. My issue is the stadium location, alleged private financing, claims of spurring development that never actually materialize, and exaggerated tax revenue claims.
07-24-2017 09:15 PM
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mj4life Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Raleigh group proposing $150 million MLS stadium
(07-24-2017 09:15 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  I'm ok with bringing a MLS team to Raleigh. My issue is the stadium location, alleged private financing, claims of spurring development that never actually materialize, and exaggerated tax revenue claims.

The main issue for me is the proposed terms of a deal & whether state owned land should be involved. I know many in the Triangle are excited about the prospect of having a team & stadium in their urban core but I'm not sure they completely understand how most of these deals work. Charlotte' s city council just approved giving 4.5 million to a non profit in charge of the Carolina Theatre/Intercontinental Hotel project after donating the land to them in 2012 for 1 dollar. This project does save a historic building,add taxable income etc but do we want the state making these type of deals.
07-25-2017 07:48 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Raleigh group proposing $150 million MLS stadium
For the life of me, I don't understand the appeal of putting a stadium in downtown Raleigh. Why not put it where most people live? Why not put it where people can get to it easily?

I guess the only reason would be to create an urban renewal project, as a way to extract money from public sources. But if Raleigh wanted to do that, they could do it cheaper and more effectively by subsidizing redevelopment more directly.

As for the lack of public transportation, that hasn't seemed to hurt Carter-Finley Stadium, the PNC Center or the state fairgrounds. Fans are going to drive to this stadium no matter where you put it. Why not put it someplace convenient?
07-25-2017 09:21 AM
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Wolfman Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Raleigh group proposing $150 million MLS stadium
(07-25-2017 07:48 AM)mj4life Wrote:  The main issue for me is the proposed terms of a deal & whether state owned land should be involved. I know many in the Triangle are excited about the prospect of having a team & stadium in their urban core but I'm not sure they completely understand how most of these deals work. Charlotte' s city council just approved giving 4.5 million to a non profit in charge of the Carolina Theatre/Intercontinental Hotel project after donating the land to them in 2012 for 1 dollar. This project does save a historic building,add taxable income etc but do we want the state making these type of deals.

I believe/hope that if the state sells land it has to be open to public bidding. The Dix property was sold to another government entity so no public bidding was required. Alternatively, they could offer a long term lease.

(07-25-2017 09:21 AM)ken d Wrote:  For the life of me, I don't understand the appeal of putting a stadium in downtown Raleigh. Why not put it where most people live? Why not put it where people can get to it easily?

I guess the only reason would be to create an urban renewal project, as a way to extract money from public sources. But if Raleigh wanted to do that, they could do it cheaper and more effectively by subsidizing redevelopment more directly.

As for the lack of public transportation, that hasn't seemed to hurt Carter-Finley Stadium, the PNC Center or the state fairgrounds. Fans are going to drive to this stadium no matter where you put it. Why not put it someplace convenient?

They could make it part of the Centennial Authority and put it near PNC Arena.
07-25-2017 12:30 PM
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lumberpack4 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Raleigh group proposing $150 million MLS stadium
(07-25-2017 09:21 AM)ken d Wrote:  For the life of me, I don't understand the appeal of putting a stadium in downtown Raleigh. Why not put it where most people live? Why not put it where people can get to it easily?

I guess the only reason would be to create an urban renewal project, as a way to extract money from public sources. But if Raleigh wanted to do that, they could do it cheaper and more effectively by subsidizing redevelopment more directly.

As for the lack of public transportation, that hasn't seemed to hurt Carter-Finley Stadium, the PNC Center or the state fairgrounds. Fans are going to drive to this stadium no matter where you put it. Why not put it someplace convenient?

Ken - A downtown stadium is the reason Jim Valvano was crucified back in the late 1980's. Certrain large property owners wanted a downtown stadium because they were enamoroued wiht the New Urbanism and the giant profits they stood to make if sleepy Raleigh could be turned into something that did not roll up the sidewalks at 5:00 PM on Friday.

Valvano wanted the new basketball arena to be on Centenial Campus first, then near the Football Stadium, but not downtown. Parking for Reynolds was problamatic enough and he knew the parking downtown would be detrimental to State's fan base. When Golenbock wrote his hit piece these interests jumped on the chance to remove Jim and Chancelor Poulton. Many of these interests were UNC folks, but not all, and UNC folks did not weild the final knives, those came from NCSU folk invested with and beholded to UNC folk.

This is a key thing to always remember - money and politics are intertwined with the UNC/NCSU/Duke/WF relationship. When a lot of State folks express things that seem paranoid, it's because they fail to realize or do not want to admit the role of money and politics in sport. It's a naive mindset - but that fits engineers and other STEM folks who aren't necessarily adept at self promotion, sales, and image cultivation.

Anyway, this downtown stadium deal is filled with the usual suspect. To top it off they are using BAD urban planning techniques and ignore the fact that Raleigh will never be as dense Manhattan, SF, or inside the Chicago Loop. This is the holy grail - the Jane Addams vision of urbansim that exists in in a few places created by the artificial barriers of islands, and transportation bottlenecks that drive up the value of land using artificial scarcity.

To top it off the NC State college of design and school of architecture is the oddest duck in the South because of their influence from Le Coubsia, and a South American fellow whose name I can never remember. You get better New South, New Urbanism out of VT and Ole Miss architecture schools,. and UNC's planning program.
07-25-2017 01:18 PM
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mj4life Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Raleigh group proposing $150 million MLS stadium
(07-25-2017 12:30 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  [quote='mj4life' pid='14463297' dateline='1500986891']
The main issue for me is the proposed terms of a deal & whether state owned land should be involved. I know many in the Triangle are excited about the prospect of having a team & stadium in their urban core but I'm not sure they completely understand how most of these deals work. Charlotte' s city council just approved giving 4.5 million to a non profit in charge of the Carolina Theatre/Intercontinental Hotel project after donating the land to them in 2012 for 1 dollar. This project does save a historic building,add taxable income etc but do we want the state making these type of deals.

I believe/hope that if the state sells land it has to be open to public bidding. The Dix property was sold to another government entity so no public bidding was required. Alternatively, they could offer a long term lease.

Everything I have seen so far suggest NCFC wants to enter into a ground lease for the 13 acres they need. So the question is what they feel is a fair agreement & whether the state sees it that way also. The company developing the Intercontinental Hotel is paying the Foundation for the Carolinas 3 million per year for less than 1/2 acre of land. I'm sure the state will want fair market value & that's probably close to 20 million per year plus they would have to pay property taxes, construction etc.
07-25-2017 03:25 PM
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