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Exercise: How would you rebuild the B12 in 2020-something?
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murrdcu Offline
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Toungue Exercise: How would you rebuild the B12 in 2020-something?
In this exercise, the Big 12 gets picked apart. For fun, they lose 5 schools: OU and OSU to the SEC, WVU to ACC, KU and ISU to Big Ten.

Big 12 left with Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor and Kansas State.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnatio...ealignment

Using expansion candidates from last summer's fun to rebuild, who and why would you add these programs?

Candidates where:
BYU, Cincinnati, Boise St. Houston, UConn
Colorado State, Tulane, N. Illinois, San Diego State
Arkansas State, SMU, ECU, Temple, Memphis
USF, UCF, New Mexico


My guess is the Big 12 would add the best brands with the most viewers as content with larger fan bases that watch football will maximize any TV contract the conference would be looking to maximize. Here is my ranking:
1. BYU - large fan base, great ratings, Sunday rule only real negative
2. UConn - good fan base, great support for sports, developing football brand already travels to Texas for conference games, large athletic budget
3. Houston - recent strong football program, could help cut into SEC recruiting
4. UCF - huge alumni base. Fox supposedly likes that market
5. Cincinnati - solid athletic programs, doesn't deliver entire state, stature has slipped recently.

Possible considerations: Boise St, Colorado State, SDSU
The rest of the list arerevenue losing additions imho.
07-18-2017 12:06 AM
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Ewglenn Offline
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RE: Exercise: How would you rebuild the B12 in 2020-something?
(07-18-2017 12:06 AM)murrdcu Wrote:  In this exercise, the Big 12 gets picked apart. For fun, they lose 5 schools: OU and OSU to the SEC, WVU to ACC, KU and ISU to Big Ten.

Big 12 left with Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor and Kansas State.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnatio...ealignment

Using expansion candidates from last summer's fun to rebuild, who and why would you add these programs?

Candidates where:
BYU, Cincinnati, Boise St. Houston, UConn
Colorado State, Tulane, N. Illinois, San Diego State
Arkansas State, SMU, ECU, Temple, Memphis
USF, UCF, New Mexico


My guess is the Big 12 would add the best brands with the most viewers as content with larger fan bases that watch football will maximize any TV contract the conference would be looking to maximize. Here is my ranking:
1. BYU - large fan base, great ratings, Sunday rule only real negative
2. UConn - good fan base, great support for sports, developing football brand already travels to Texas for conference games, large athletic budget
3. Houston - recent strong football program, could help cut into SEC recruiting
4. UCF - huge alumni base. Fox supposedly likes that market
5. Cincinnati - solid athletic programs, doesn't deliver entire state, stature has slipped recently.

Possible considerations: Boise St, Colorado State, SDSU
The rest of the list arerevenue losing additions imho.

It just depends on what they value. If they want to boost just football I would think Boise, ECU (fan base), Houston, BYU and Cincinnati would bring in a decent football pedigree. UCONN has a stronger Olympic sport claim than the others but are not very good in football with a lower ceiling. USF would be an option but I don't like schools with out oncampus stadiums. Personally I really like ECU they have a P5 feel to their football games.

My top 5 (football being the driver)
1 BYU
2 Houston
3 ECU
4 Boise
5 Cincinnati
07-18-2017 06:34 AM
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Lenvillecards Offline
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Exercise: How would you rebuild the B12 in 2020-something?
If I were the commish of a Big 12 left with Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor and Kansas State I would start by targeting BYU & Houston. They offer content & both have a good market. From there do we go east or west? WV is gone so there isn't an island to the east but now BYU is on one in the west. Therefore looking west Boise has the best football program & offers the best content. Colorado State would provide a good market & help bridge the western expansion. Do we go to 10, 12 or 14? Remaining candidates would be Cincinnati, SAN Diego State, UNLV, Memphis, UCF, USF, ECU, Temple & UCONN. Cincinnati fits geographically while having a good tradition & academics while also penetrating into the B1G, ACC & SEC area. That's a solid 10. 11 & 12 would be determined by the networks willingness to pay for them.

SD State & UNLV offer good markets & would cap off the west. Looking east you have more options & Cincinnati could work as a bridge. It would be hard to take UCONN without leaving them on an island, likely needing Temple & ECU to remedy that situation. Taking UCONN means going to 14 I think. Do you take a chance on ECU, a 5th school from NC? I think so as they would have the potential to be a top 2 or 3 football brand in their state. Going to 14 I would take UCONN, ECU, Memphis & USF. I think USF is on better footing for future success than is UCF.

Big 12 with 10:
Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, Kansas State, BYU, Houston, Colorado State, Boise & Cincinnati

Big 12 with 12:
East: Texas, TT, Baylor, TCU, Kansas State, Cincinnati

West: BYU, Boise, Houston, Colorado State, SAN Diego State, UNLV

8 conference games with 1 permanent rival. Texas-BYU, Houston-TCU, Baylor-Boise, TT-Colorado St, Kansas St-SD St, Cincinnati-UNLV

Big 12 with 14:
East: Houston, TCU, Cincinnati, Memphis, USF, ECU, UCONN

West: Texas, TT, Baylor, BYU, Boise, Colorado State, Kansas State

8 conference games with no permanent rivals.
(This post was last modified: 07-18-2017 09:54 AM by Lenvillecards.)
07-18-2017 09:37 AM
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tcufrog86 Offline
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RE: Exercise: How would you rebuild the B12 in 2020-something?
I would go to 14 with

BYU - football, fanbase, basketball, olympic sports
Boise - football, name recognition
Colorado State - #2 school in a rapidly growing state, new stadium, has had bright spots in football
New Mexico - #1 school in a smallish state, unfortunately not same population growth as the rest of the SW, historic ties to Texas Tech, basketball tradition and fanbase
Houston - SWC ties with TCU, Texas, and Baylor; new facilities across many sports, major market
Texas Tech - carryover from old Big 12
Kansas State - carryover from old Big 12

TCU - carryover
Texas - carryover
Baylor - carryover
Cincinnati - big endowment, good market in Cincy and #2 program in a big state for HS talent
UCF - lots of alums, Florida access, potential potential potential
USF - lots of alums, Florida access, potential potential potential
Memphis - help bridge gap between Cincy and rest of new Big 12, seem to be investing in a lot of the right places, basketball has been very strong at times, football has had bright spots
(This post was last modified: 07-19-2017 09:05 AM by tcufrog86.)
07-18-2017 10:08 AM
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RE: Exercise: How would you rebuild the B12 in 2020-something?
(07-18-2017 10:08 AM)tcufrog86 Wrote:  I would go to 14 with

BYU - football, fanbase, basketball, olympic sports
Boise - football, name recognition
Colorado State - #2 school in a rapidly growing state, new stadium, has had bright spots in football
New Mexico - #1 school in a smallish state, unfortunately not same population growth as the rest of the SW, historic ties to Texas Tech, basketball tradition and fanbase
Houston - SWC ties with the 3 above, new facilities across many sports, major market
Texas Tech - carryover from old Big 12
Kansas State - carryover from old Big 12

TCU - carryover
Texas - carryover
Baylor - carryover
Cincinnati - big endowment, good market in Cincy and #2 program in a big state for HS talent
UCF - lots of alums, Florida access, potential potential potential
USF - lots of alums, Florida access, potential potential potential
Memphis - help bridge gap between Cincy and rest of new Big 12, seem to be investing in a lot of the right places, basketball has been very strong at times, football has had bright spots

I like it for obvious reasons. Presuming this doesn't mean Connecticut finds a home in either the ACC or B1G, I think they'd find a way into the Big East for non-football sports.

As another poster presented, UNLV and San Diego St add good markets. That would push Houston to the East.
(This post was last modified: 07-18-2017 02:27 PM by BePcr07.)
07-18-2017 02:27 PM
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hawghiggs Offline
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RE: Exercise: How would you rebuild the B12 in 2020-something?
You couldn't. Basically Texas would move on to independence and the rest would be more than welcomed into the AAC.
07-18-2017 09:30 PM
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murrdcu Offline
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RE: Exercise: How would you rebuild the B12 in 2020-something?
(07-18-2017 09:30 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  You couldn't. Basically Texas would move on to independence and the rest would be more than welcomed into the AAC.

I agree, but I want to see what others think a rebuilt Big 12 for Texas would look like.
07-18-2017 09:59 PM
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RE: Exercise: How would you rebuild the B12 in 2020-something?
Cincinnati and Memphis
Then New Mexico and BYU
(This post was last modified: 07-19-2017 02:15 PM by Gamecock.)
07-19-2017 02:14 PM
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vandiver49 Offline
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RE: Exercise: How would you rebuild the B12 in 2020-something?
(07-18-2017 09:30 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  You couldn't. Basically Texas would move on to independence and the rest would be more than welcomed into the AAC.

Concur. With what's left you might as well have Baylor turn the lights out on their way to the AAC. If the B12 is to be preserved it has to happen before the GOR ends. There are 3 things the conference needs in order to continue its existence IMO;

1. Divisionless Conference
2. Expansion with UC and BYU back to 12 teams
3. Scheduling agreements with the remaining P5 conferences

But in all honesty, the writing is on the wall. The B12 is not long for this earth.
07-21-2017 07:43 AM
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RE: Exercise: How would you rebuild the B12 in 2020-something?
(07-21-2017 07:43 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(07-18-2017 09:30 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  You couldn't. Basically Texas would move on to independence and the rest would be more than welcomed into the AAC.

Concur. With what's left you might as well have Baylor turn the lights out on their way to the AAC. If the B12 is to be preserved it has to happen before the GOR ends. There are 3 things the conference needs in order to continue its existence IMO;

1. Divisionless Conference
2. Expansion with UC and BYU back to 12 teams
3. Scheduling agreements with the remaining P5 conferences

But in all honesty, the writing is on the wall. The B12 is not long for this earth.

The schools that have doubts that they'll find a home elsewhere should vote to expand with schools they want to be with OR vote for none and build non-conference relationships with conferences they want to be with.

I think the list includes: Iowa St, Kansas St, TCU, Baylor, and *perhaps* West Virginia. Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, and Kansas are likely safe.
07-21-2017 09:11 AM
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vandiver49 Offline
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RE: Exercise: How would you rebuild the B12 in 2020-something?
(07-21-2017 09:11 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(07-21-2017 07:43 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(07-18-2017 09:30 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  You couldn't. Basically Texas would move on to independence and the rest would be more than welcomed into the AAC.

Concur. With what's left you might as well have Baylor turn the lights out on their way to the AAC. If the B12 is to be preserved it has to happen before the GOR ends. There are 3 things the conference needs in order to continue its existence IMO;

1. Divisionless Conference
2. Expansion with UC and BYU back to 12 teams
3. Scheduling agreements with the remaining P5 conferences

But in all honesty, the writing is on the wall. The B12 is not long for this earth.

The schools that have doubts that they'll find a home elsewhere should vote to expand with schools they want to be with OR vote for none and build non-conference relationships with conferences they want to be with.

I think the list includes: Iowa St, Kansas St, TCU, Baylor, and *perhaps* West Virginia. Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, and Kansas are likely safe.

The problem with the bolded is that the schools in question don't want to be in the same conference with each other if Texas and OU aren't there with them.
07-21-2017 01:44 PM
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BePcr07 Online
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RE: Exercise: How would you rebuild the B12 in 2020-something?
(07-21-2017 01:44 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(07-21-2017 09:11 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(07-21-2017 07:43 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(07-18-2017 09:30 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  You couldn't. Basically Texas would move on to independence and the rest would be more than welcomed into the AAC.

Concur. With what's left you might as well have Baylor turn the lights out on their way to the AAC. If the B12 is to be preserved it has to happen before the GOR ends. There are 3 things the conference needs in order to continue its existence IMO;

1. Divisionless Conference
2. Expansion with UC and BYU back to 12 teams
3. Scheduling agreements with the remaining P5 conferences

But in all honesty, the writing is on the wall. The B12 is not long for this earth.

The schools that have doubts that they'll find a home elsewhere should vote to expand with schools they want to be with OR vote for none and build non-conference relationships with conferences they want to be with.

I think the list includes: Iowa St, Kansas St, TCU, Baylor, and *perhaps* West Virginia. Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, and Kansas are likely safe.

The problem with the bolded is that the schools in question don't want to be in the same conference with each other if Texas and OU aren't there with them.

And that is perfectly fine, but then they need have something of a plan in place.
07-21-2017 01:54 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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RE: Exercise: How would you rebuild the B12 in 2020-something?
I think the schools in question don't want to upset the apple cart just yet. They'll play the ally of the networks and UT/OU so they can get a better deal later. Otherwise, they will really be out in no-man's land.

If they were going to revolt then last year was the time to do it. They could have expanded had they really wanted, but it would have hurt UT/OU and the networks thus they didn't sign up for it.
07-21-2017 06:11 PM
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murrdcu Offline
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RE: Exercise: How would you rebuild the B12 in 2020-something?
(07-21-2017 06:11 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I think the schools in question don't want to upset the apple cart just yet. They'll play the ally of the networks and UT/OU so they can get a better deal later. Otherwise, they will really be out in no-man's land.

If they were going to revolt then last year was the time to do it. They could have expanded had they really wanted, but it would have hurt UT/OU and the networks thus they didn't sign up for it.
Those schools' best chance at a decent paycheck is hoping only Oklahoma leaves and workout best deal with Texas in the conference. This will keep them somewhere between the P5 payouts and the G5 payouts. These schools could soften the gap between them and the P5 network school by charging their fans some kind of pay per view package to watch all 3rd Tier games online or over the satellite providers via a small linear channel that just broadcasts football and basketball games.
07-21-2017 07:26 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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RE: Exercise: How would you rebuild the B12 in 2020-something?
(07-21-2017 07:26 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  
(07-21-2017 06:11 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I think the schools in question don't want to upset the apple cart just yet. They'll play the ally of the networks and UT/OU so they can get a better deal later. Otherwise, they will really be out in no-man's land.

If they were going to revolt then last year was the time to do it. They could have expanded had they really wanted, but it would have hurt UT/OU and the networks thus they didn't sign up for it.
Those schools' best chance at a decent paycheck is hoping only Oklahoma leaves and workout best deal with Texas in the conference. This will keep them somewhere between the P5 payouts and the G5 payouts. These schools could soften the gap between them and the P5 network school by charging their fans some kind of pay per view package to watch all 3rd Tier games online or over the satellite providers via a small linear channel that just broadcasts football and basketball games.

I think what's most likely is that some sort of leftover league forms that includes a bunch of American schools, Big 12 schools that didn't make the cut, and maybe a few MWC schools. That way the networks have a half way decent product they can market and pay the league that in-between money.

I can't think of any other outcome that would motivate some of these Big 12 schools to go along with UT and OU to date. They'd be better off expanding now and taking the money unless they've been promised some sort of parachute later.
07-21-2017 07:49 PM
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