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ABC News' Libelous Fake News; Labels Prominent Religious Liberty Org as "Hate Group"
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DefCONNOne Offline
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Post: #21
RE: ABC News' Libelous Fake News; Labels Prominent Religious Liberty Org as "Hate...
(07-15-2017 11:22 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 11:12 AM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 10:42 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 10:28 AM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 10:20 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  They advocate for the legality of throwing all Gay people into jailcamps for the 'crime' of being LGBT. They work with the World Congress of Families at the UN. Yea, they qualify.

Source?

How many do you want?

How about the ADF cheering an INdian Ruling criminalizing being LGBT and has been used to throw hundreds of Indians into Prison.

"When given the same choice the Supreme Court of the United States had in Lawrence vs. Texas, the Indian Court did the right thing. India chose to protect society at large rather than give in to a vocal minority of homosexual advocates. … America needs to take note that a country of 1.2 billion people has rejected the road towards same-sex marriage, and understood that these kinds of bad decisions in the long run will harm society."

—Benjamin Bull, executive director of ADF Global, on the recriminalization of homosexuality in India, 2013

“The issue under rational-basis review is not whether Texas should be concerned about opposite-sex sodomy, but whether it is reasonable to believe that same-sex sodomy is a distinct public health problem. It clearly is.”

—ADF attorney Glen Lavy, counsel of record, amicus brief, Lawrence v. Texas, 2003

---

Let me know if you'd like to read their amicus briefs.

They have extensive links to Russia, where at least 27 LGBT men have been executed this year in Southern Russia's Gay Concentration Camp. The detentions have restarted btw. I suppose Trump gave the green light for it.

You post a typical inflammatory statement about a Christian based group supporting jail camps for homosexuals. I'm calling you out to give me a source or quote that matches your ridiculous statement. You give examples of their supposed positions but make the leap across the Grand Canyon that they advocate for jail camps.

No, actually, the quote by the leader of the ADF, appears to be a full throated endorsement of the criminalization of being Gay. That means jail. And it has meant jail.

In the Lawrence v Texas case, the case did involve around a CRIMINAL arrest for the crime of non-commercial, consensual sex between unrelated adults in the privacy of their own bedroom. And yet the ADF wanted that to remain illegal. Laws like it were used to enhance penalties for LGBT persons as well. 2 years for crime x if straight, 20 if LGBT.

Beyond that, the ADF or its leaders, appear to pal around with the World Congress of Families as they seek to defend jail for LGBT persons around the world, the denial of even basic human rights for LGBT persons, and even palling around with Putin's genocidally anti-LGBT regime in Russia.

By the way, they have lawyers. Lots of lawyers. They can sue ABC or even me if they'd like to have a court decide whether calling the ADF a 'hate group' is libelous. They won't because they'd lose and the only impact of a lawsuit would be to highlight their advocacy. As well as so much discovery that might expose their activities to further scrutiny.

These aren't supposed positions, but direct quotes. Again, why not go to the website and look up their amicus briefs. You asked for sources, I provided sources. Its up to you to either accept them, ignore them, or discredit them.

---

At best the ADF appears to work directly to defend the legality of throwing all Gay people into jail for the 'crime' of being Gay.

---

So no, it isn't fake news to describe the ADF as a 'hate group', unless you think that jailing people for the 'crime' of existing isn't hateful
It isn't libelous either to call them a 'hate group' either

And unless you wish to define "religious liberty" as the right to throw people who don't follow your religious dictates into prison for the 'crime' of not allowing them to tell you what kind of sex you can have, I'd challenge the title calling them a "religious liberty org".

To summarize...you have zero sources to back up your lies and deceit. Standard operating procedure, for one Tom in Lazybrook.
07-15-2017 11:32 AM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #22
RE: ABC News' Libelous Fake News; Labels Prominent Religious Liberty Org as "Hate...
(07-15-2017 11:29 AM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  Straight from the horse's mouth (web site):

Quote:Who We Are
We've Defended Your Freedom Since 1994


The morning Alliance Defending Freedom was launched, Dr. Bill Bright told a story about a little boy who was lost in a wheat field. The townspeople frantically searched for the boy, but they couldn’t find him. Finally, one of the searchers suggested that they all hold hands and walk together across the field. They found the boy, but sadly, not in time to save his life. One of the searchers lamented, "If we had only linked arms sooner..."

Dr. Bright compared the town’s story to the Christian community.

The gathered Christian leaders—more than 30 founders of ADF—recognized that Christians, like the town, needed to unite in order to defend religious freedom before it was too late.

And so, Alliance Defending Freedom was launched on January 31, 1994 to ensure that religious freedom did not share the same fate as the boy in the field.

Building an Alliance for Victory

With that launch, the Christian community gained growing awareness that the threats to its freedom were multiplying. The legal system, which was built on a moral and Christian foundation, had been steadily moving against religious freedom, the sanctity of life, and marriage and family. And very few Christians were showing up in court to put up a fight.

By funding cases, training attorneys, and successfully advocating for freedom in court, Alliance Defending Freedom changed that.

Advocacy
Transforming Law & Culture

It is not enough to just win cases; we must change the culture, and the strategy of Alliance Defending Freedom ensures lasting victory.

What is Alliance Defending Freedom?
Alliance Defending Freedom is an alliance-building legal organization that advocates for the right of people to freely live out their faith.

Why were you formed?
For decades, the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) and its allies used the courts to drive out public expressions of faith and to radically change America into something the Founding Fathers never intended.

Despite outstanding efforts by many Christians, our Founders saw that there was limited unity and no common strategy. There was also no organized method to recruit and train attorneys to defend our God-given constitutionally protected rights in modern legal challenges. And inadequate funding allowed much territory to be lost by default.

What does Alliance Defending Freedom do?

Alliance Defending Freedom advocates for the right of people to freely live out their faith. As an alliance-building legal organization, we unite attorneys, ministry leaders, pastors, and like-minded organizations in a common purpose, a shared commitment to defending religious liberty, the sanctity of life, and marriage and family.

What is your mission statement?
To keep the doors open for the Gospel by advocating for religious liberty, the sanctity of life, and marriage and family.
Alliance Defending Religious Freedom

And they/their leadership fights to protect/support the legality of throwing people into prison for the crime of being LGBT.

Is that religious freedom? Sounds like Saudi Arabia or Iran. But then again, there are links between the World Congress of Families, of which the ADF has been (and probably still is) linked to and Iran and Saudi Arabia.

---

So, do you think that advocating the legality of throwing people into jailcamps for the 'crime' of existing is hateful?

How many years, do you personally, think I should get in prison for being Gay? Or should I just be grabbed off the street and executed, like what is going on right now in Putin's Russia.

At no point have you even attempted to rebut my claims of ADF's/Its leaders' advocacy. Do you think that advocacy is hateful?
(This post was last modified: 07-15-2017 11:40 AM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
07-15-2017 11:34 AM
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UCGrad1992 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: ABC News' Libelous Fake News; Labels Prominent Religious Liberty Org as "Hate...
(07-15-2017 11:34 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  And they/their leadership fights to protect/support the legality of throwing people into prison for the crime of being LGBT.

Is that religious freedom? Sounds like Saudi Arabia or Iran. But then again, there are links between the World Congress of Families, of which the ADF has been (and probably still is) linked to and Iran and Saudi Arabia.

---

So, do you think that advocating the legality of throwing people into jailcamps for the 'crime' of existing is hateful?

How many years, do you personally, think I should get in prison for being Gay? Or should I just be grabbed off the street and executed, like what is going on right now in Putin's Russia.

I'm still waiting for you to produce a direct source or quote that this group advocates putting homosexuals in jail camps. You can't so I will end this charade on your part. This is why you are hurting your precious cause because like so many on the left you rely on inflammatory, fear mongering, finger pointing, victim card playing as part of your M.O. It is not a good strategy for success BTW.
07-15-2017 11:46 AM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #24
RE: ABC News' Libelous Fake News; Labels Prominent Religious Liberty Org as "Hate...
(07-15-2017 11:46 AM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 11:34 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  And they/their leadership fights to protect/support the legality of throwing people into prison for the crime of being LGBT.

Is that religious freedom? Sounds like Saudi Arabia or Iran. But then again, there are links between the World Congress of Families, of which the ADF has been (and probably still is) linked to and Iran and Saudi Arabia.

---

So, do you think that advocating the legality of throwing people into jailcamps for the 'crime' of existing is hateful?

How many years, do you personally, think I should get in prison for being Gay? Or should I just be grabbed off the street and executed, like what is going on right now in Putin's Russia.

I'm still waiting for you to produce a direct source or quote that this group advocates putting homosexuals in jail camps. You can't so I will end this charade on your part. This is why you are hurting your precious cause because like so many on the left you rely on inflammatory, fear mongering, finger pointing, victim card playing as part of your M.O. It is not a good strategy for success BTW.

I provided direct quotes. You refused to rebut them. Why not just ask the ADF..."Did your leaders say that about the Indian Court Ruling?" Or "Do you affiliate with the World Congress of Families".

I can promise you, the ADF knows exactly where I lifted those quotes from. They're free to sue them. Have they even attempted to deny that they're not supporting the legality of criminalization of persons, solely for being sexually active Gay people?

I also provided a reference to an amicus brief in Lawrence v Texas. Why not look that up yourself and see if it matches the quote provided?

You got nothing. And neither does the ADF. They can sue me, ABC News, or any number of people saying/reporting that the ADF is a 'hate group' if they'd like. Discovery will be a real *****.

In short, you asked for sources. I provided them. You just don't like that you can't attack the reporter of the quotes rather than the content of the quotes. You have no intention of debating the reasons behind the ADF's classification as a hate group, but rather wish to attack the group making those claims. I'm not playing your game.
(This post was last modified: 07-15-2017 12:04 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
07-15-2017 11:57 AM
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cb4029 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: ABC News' Libelous Fake News; Labels Prominent Religious Liberty Org as "Hate...
Yep, hate group.
07-15-2017 11:58 AM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #26
RE: ABC News' Libelous Fake News; Labels Prominent Religious Liberty Org as "Hate Group"
Here's more on the ADF's advocacy of criminalization.

https://www.mediamatters.org/blog/2014/1...ake/201629

Feel free to rebut the CLAIMS in the article, but not the article itself.
(This post was last modified: 07-15-2017 12:10 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
07-15-2017 12:09 PM
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Kronke Online
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Post: #27
RE: ABC News' Libelous Fake News; Labels Prominent Religious Liberty Org as "Hate Group"
ADF's Statement. My money is on ABC retracting.

Quote:The following quote may be attributed to Alliance Defending Freedom Legal Counsel and Director of Communications Kerri Kupec regarding ABC News’ abandonment of objectivity in repeating false accusations against ADF made by the ultra-partisan Southern Poverty Law Center:

“ABC News has committed journalistic malpractice. For ABC News to essentially cut and paste false charges against Alliance Defending Freedom by a radically left-wing, violence-inciting organization like Southern Poverty Law Center is a discredit to ABC News and to the profession. Americans’ trust in media is cratering, and the blatant bias and lack of professionalism that ABC attempted to pass off as news can only serve to confirm and intensify that distrust.

“Alliance Defending Freedom is one of the most respected and successful Supreme Court advocates in the legal profession, having won seven cases at the high court in the last seven years. Southern Poverty Law Center spends its time and money attacking veterans, nuns, Muslims who oppose terrorism, Catholics, Evangelicals, and anyone else who dares disagree with its far-left ideology. Meanwhile, ADF works every day to preserve and affirm free speech and the free exercise of religion for people from all walks of life and all backgrounds because we believe freedom is for everyone.

“For the sake of its own integrity, ABC News should issue an apology to Alliance Defending Freedom and retract the defamatory story it published Wednesday.”

http://adflegal.org/detailspages/press-r...ue-apology
07-15-2017 12:19 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #28
RE: ABC News' Libelous Fake News; Labels Prominent Religious Liberty Org as "Hate...
(07-15-2017 12:19 PM)Kronke Wrote:  ADF's Statement. My money is on ABC retracting.

Quote:The following quote may be attributed to Alliance Defending Freedom Legal Counsel and Director of Communications Kerri Kupec regarding ABC News’ abandonment of objectivity in repeating false accusations against ADF made by the ultra-partisan Southern Poverty Law Center:

“ABC News has committed journalistic malpractice. For ABC News to essentially cut and paste false charges against Alliance Defending Freedom by a radically left-wing, violence-inciting organization like Southern Poverty Law Center is a discredit to ABC News and to the profession. Americans’ trust in media is cratering, and the blatant bias and lack of professionalism that ABC attempted to pass off as news can only serve to confirm and intensify that distrust.

“Alliance Defending Freedom is one of the most respected and successful Supreme Court advocates in the legal profession, having won seven cases at the high court in the last seven years. Southern Poverty Law Center spends its time and money attacking veterans, nuns, Muslims who oppose terrorism, Catholics, Evangelicals, and anyone else who dares disagree with its far-left ideology. Meanwhile, ADF works every day to preserve and affirm free speech and the free exercise of religion for people from all walks of life and all backgrounds because we believe freedom is for everyone.

“For the sake of its own integrity, ABC News should issue an apology to Alliance Defending Freedom and retract the defamatory story it published Wednesday.”

http://adflegal.org/detailspages/press-r...ue-apology

I missed the part about them denying their leaders' comments regarding the India Supreme Court decisions, their recanting of their opposition to the legalization of being Gay in Lawrence v Texas, their denial of their advocacy for criminalization of being gay in Jamaica, Belize, and other countries, their denial of association with the World Congress of Families and their clear disavowal of their support for criminalization statutes.

Again, they're welcome to sue ABC for defamation or libel.

Where did they even deny any of the charges that caused them to be called a hate group?

---

What's your limit on criminal statues for LGBT persons? You down with execution like in Russia today? Or how about 5 years like in India? How about the 20 people currently in jail in Cameroon? Just curious as to whether you think the open defense of laws used for the purpose of jailing people or even executing them simply because they are LGBT constitutes hate.

Simply reporting their statements and activities does not constitute defamation. Its called reporting the facts. I wouldn't hold my breath on any retraction. I'll bet that ABC has invited them to come into their studios to discuss their statements and advocacy on camera.
(This post was last modified: 07-15-2017 01:56 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
07-15-2017 12:59 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #29
RE: ABC News' Libelous Fake News; Labels Prominent Religious Liberty Org as "Hate Group"
ABC news has no integrity to compromise.

The SPLC has zero credibility outside the extreme left. It's a scam organization.
07-15-2017 05:27 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #30
RE: ABC News' Libelous Fake News; Labels Prominent Religious Liberty Org as "Hate...
(07-15-2017 05:27 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  ABC news has no integrity to compromise.

The SPLC has zero credibility outside the extreme left. It's a scam organization.

Yea, fighting the Klan is a scam. Correctly pointing out that the ADF and/or its leaders openly and consistently advocate for the criminalization of people for being Gay is a scam.

What's the limit on criminal penalties for being Gay that you think goes too far? I think I know that answer.

---

But of course, you refuse to challenge any of the charges that caused people to call the ADF a hate group in the first place.
(This post was last modified: 07-15-2017 06:34 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
07-15-2017 06:30 PM
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