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At the least the Trump team attempted to collude with Russia.
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Post: #31
RE: At the least the Trump team attempted to collude with Russia.
(07-14-2017 11:56 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Ukraine is an ally. Russia is an adversary. Holy Shnitkes. You guys have been co opted so easily.

Neither are adversaries or allies.
07-14-2017 12:28 PM
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cb4029 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: At the least the Trump team attempted to collude with Russia.
(07-14-2017 12:19 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  still waiting for Mach to let me know what law was broken...

Practicing witchcraft, duh.
07-14-2017 12:28 PM
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UTSAMarineVet09 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: At the least the Trump team attempted to collude with Russia.
(07-14-2017 12:28 PM)cb4029 Wrote:  
(07-14-2017 12:19 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  still waiting for Mach to let me know what law was broken...

Practicing witchcraft, duh.

oh I thought it was having a crazy attorney... 07-coffee3
07-14-2017 12:28 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: At the least the Trump team attempted to collude with Russia.
(07-14-2017 12:19 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  still waiting for Mach to let me know what law was broken...

I get that, but of course they will argue that laws against collusion ARE being broken... and that you simply don't listen...

The problem is that they keep using the word incorrectly.

Of course, if you google the definition, it is a 'hot' topic with people eagerly picking and choosing which definitions IN ENGLISH meet their criteria.... but it is VERY clear (based on history) that collusion (in anything resembling a legal sense) requires far more elements than are present.

The theft of the emails likely WAS a crime... one that happens literally every day in this world and almost nobody ever pays for it....

no evidence that Trump or anyone associated with him contracted with anyone to do it... in fact it seems obvious that it happened before he was the nominee (the FBI reported it to the DNC) AND that the most recent events were about 'information they had' and not 'information they could get;'. The most recent complaint actually proves they WEREN'T acting in concert.

No evidence of any 'if you do this for me, I will do that for you'... and the 'this and that' are in some way, working against the interests of this country in favor of another country. THAT is what 'collusion' means in this proper context.

As I said, if they had been Chelsea Manning or like Comey, released it to the US press... This would be heralded as a victory for transparency. Instead it's 'The Russians'



07-14-2017 12:49 PM
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Machiavelli Offline
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Post: #35
RE: At the least the Trump team attempted to collude with Russia.
No evidence of any 'if you do this for me, I will do that for you'... and the 'this and that' are in some way, working against the interests of this country in favor of another country. THAT is what 'collusion' means in this proper context.



Wrong....... the Trump team actively tried to get Ukraine language out of the GOO platform. Fact. It's crazy how much you guys gloss over.
07-14-2017 01:39 PM
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Machiavelli Offline
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Post: #36
RE: At the least the Trump team attempted to collude with Russia.
Now pay attention righties. I made a claim and here now is a link proving my point. Not an opinion. Actual facts on how it was done.

http://www.npr.org/2016/08/06/488876597/...to-ukraine
07-14-2017 01:47 PM
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Post: #37
RE: At the least the Trump team attempted to collude with Russia.
(07-14-2017 01:47 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Now pay attention righties. I made a claim and here now is a link proving my point. Not an opinion. Actual facts on how it was done.

http://www.npr.org/2016/08/06/488876597/...to-ukraine

Denman is a long time GOP activist from Texas. When she presented her proposal during a platform subcommittee meeting last month, "two gentleman," whom Denman said were part of the Trump campaign, came over, looked at the language, and asked that it be set aside for further review.



"She says after further discussion the pair "had to make some calls and clear it." She says they found the language was still too strong.

The Trump campaign convinced the platform committee to change Denman's proposal. It went from calling on the U.S. to provide Ukraine "lethal defensive weapons" to the more benign phrase "appropriate assistance.""

#1 its not really a huge difference
#2 Denman doesn't name the two "gentlemen." Makes it significantly less convincing. <my article actually does name one>
#3 The platform wasn't changed. Denman's change wasn't accepted. That is a significant difference from "weakening the platform." In fact, the platform was strengthened, just not as much as Denman wanted.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/byron-...le/2617802

"...As it turns out, a look at the original draft of the platform — which has never been released publicly — shows that it always had tough language on Russian aggression in Ukraine. And not only did that language stay in the final platform — nothing was taken out — it was actually strengthened, not weakened, as a result of events at the convention...." <actual language is included in the article-for brevity here, you can read the link>

"So how did the Trump-gutted-the-GOP-platform narrative get started?
It appears it was unwittingly set in motion by a single Republican delegate, a Texas woman long active in GOP politics named Diana Denman, who proposed to add a couple of paragraphs to the original platform's position on Ukraine...."



"But they approved her statement of support for maintaining, and possibly increasing, sanctions against Russia, and, in the place of lethal aid, substituted a pledge to provide "appropriate assistance to the armed forces of Ukraine" and to work more closely with NATO. Here again is the final language that was added to the platform as a result of Denman's amendment:
We support maintaining and, if warranted, increasing sanctions, together with our allies, against Russia unless and until Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity are fully restored. We also support providing appropriate assistance to the armed forces of Ukraine and greater coordination with NATO defense planning.
There was never a subcommittee vote on the change. People in the room, speaking anonymously, estimate that perhaps a handful of delegates supported Denman, another small group opposed, and a larger number were neutral, and happy with the compromise. There was no revolt.
"The platform ended up tougher than it started, compared from the beginning to the end," Denman told me, although she added she still believes her lethal aid provision should have been included in the final document."
07-14-2017 02:05 PM
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Post: #38
RE: At the least the Trump team attempted to collude with Russia.
So Machiavelli, you are just regurgitating talking points that bear little relation to reality.
07-14-2017 02:07 PM
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Post: #39
RE: At the least the Trump team attempted to collude with Russia.
(07-14-2017 05:29 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Deep thoughts there TN

What's the high crime or misdemeanor?

Committed by the President or President elect, of course.
07-14-2017 02:07 PM
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UTSAMarineVet09 Offline
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Post: #40
RE: At the least the Trump team attempted to collude with Russia.
(07-14-2017 01:39 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  No evidence of any 'if you do this for me, I will do that for you'... and the 'this and that' are in some way, working against the interests of this country in favor of another country. THAT is what 'collusion' means in this proper context.



Wrong....... the Trump team actively tried to get Ukraine language out of the GOO platform. Fact. It's crazy how much you guys gloss over.

Mach, so what law was broken? 07-coffee3
07-14-2017 02:13 PM
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