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Arkansas Little Rock Football / Marching Band Study
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CitrusUCF Offline
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Post: #91
RE: Arkansas Little Rock Football / Marching Band Study
Did USA see an enrollment boost associated with FBS? That may well be something UALR will look at in considering moving up...the profile increase and having the football opportunity to offer to students.

Going to HS in Hot Springs, though we moved to Florida before I graduated, I was only considering Arkansas and UALR. I'm not real clear what the draw is for Arkansas State or Central Arkansas. It was basically go to the state flagship or go to Little Rock where there will be internship and networking opportunities. With ASU and UCA having larger student populations, it may be something that UALR is looking at to boost the profile to grow enrollment.
07-16-2017 02:20 PM
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chargeradio Offline
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Post: #92
RE: Arkansas Little Rock Football / Marching Band Study
USA had been hovering in the the 13000-14000 range pre-football, and then enrollment jumped to over 15,000. I'm not sure how many scholarships USA's band gives out, but you have to figure football and band probably added 200 or so to the enrollment in their own (85 scholarships for football, plus around 20 walk-one and about 100 band members.
07-16-2017 07:00 PM
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ark30inf Offline
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Post: #93
RE: Arkansas Little Rock Football / Marching Band Study
(07-16-2017 02:20 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  Did USA see an enrollment boost associated with FBS? That may well be something UALR will look at in considering moving up...the profile increase and having the football opportunity to offer to students.

Going to HS in Hot Springs, though we moved to Florida before I graduated, I was only considering Arkansas and UALR. I'm not real clear what the draw is for Arkansas State or Central Arkansas. It was basically go to the state flagship or go to Little Rock where there will be internship and networking opportunities. With ASU and UCA having larger student populations, it may be something that UALR is looking at to boost the profile to grow enrollment.

We've done ok in the state government networking arena lately....with a Governor and a couple of Speakers of the House, and a President Pro Tem of the Senate (at least for a while).

Both UCA and A-State are less commuter schools and have a more traditional college life.

Not everyone wants to go to an urban commuter campus, and lets face it, the city of Little Rock doesn't have the most savory reputation right now for mommas and daddies looking for a nice place to send their kids for four years.

UALR was also dealing with an upstart Pulaski Tech. But now Pulaski Tech has merged into the UA system.

It will be interesting to see if they remain two seperate UA institutions in Little Rock or somehow become one.

Not sure that UA-Fayetteville would want to see them under the same umbrella.
07-16-2017 09:26 PM
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ARSTATEFAN1986 Offline
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Post: #94
RE: Arkansas Little Rock Football / Marching Band Study
(07-16-2017 11:40 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(07-16-2017 11:26 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Basically I see UALR's decision as like USA's.

Here's my view

1) USA has a free place to play, UALR would have a free/almost free place to play
2) Both are in largish metros with no local competition, but with competition for sports loyalty
3) Both have a place to play and an autobid to FBS
4) Both are/were greenfields
5) Neither has a lot of students (USA 16k, UALR 11k)
6) Neither has a history in FCS
7) Both schools, being relatively new (or very small historically) do not have a large number of alumni

USA managed to make the jump, but it was/is a LOT harder than we thought. Athletic donations are not coming in at the level required to wean our students off of large student fees to support the program. Attendance is 'meh' (17k or so a game - real attendance) and has been stagnant. Our students are not attending the games in numbers as high as we hoped. The local community has been helpful, but instead of having a large group of mildly interested fans in the local community, we have a smaller group of dedicated fans, and getting the wider community to support us has been difficult. Ten years into the program, and we're still trying to get settled as a FBS. I'm glad we did it, but it hasn't been easy.

UALR has a third fewer students. That probably means HIGHER student fees per capita to finance football. Fewer students to draw to the game. They have fewer 4 year alumni too. I think the Razorbacks might cast a longer shadow on Little Rock than the 4 hour away SEC schools do on Mobile.

Unless they can figure out how to make it work without a truly massive student fee or diversion from the academic fund, I think they're going to have a very hard time with it.


The third largest university in Arkansas is not even in D1. They are in D2, and still growing student population. There seems to be a lot of growth with the state public schools in Arkansas except maybe for UCA, UAPB and Little Rock. It depends how will they could recruit in the area. Little Rock took our Women's basketball coach, Joe Foley, but we seemed to still get the better players then Little Rock. Little Rock needs to reshape their image some more, and get a little more serious on their sports.

Funniest post yet!!!

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07-16-2017 10:10 PM
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arkstfan Away
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Post: #95
RE: Arkansas Little Rock Football / Marching Band Study
(07-16-2017 11:40 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(07-16-2017 11:26 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Basically I see UALR's decision as like USA's.

Here's my view

1) USA has a free place to play, UALR would have a free/almost free place to play
2) Both are in largish metros with no local competition, but with competition for sports loyalty
3) Both have a place to play and an autobid to FBS
4) Both are/were greenfields
5) Neither has a lot of students (USA 16k, UALR 11k)
6) Neither has a history in FCS
7) Both schools, being relatively new (or very small historically) do not have a large number of alumni

USA managed to make the jump, but it was/is a LOT harder than we thought. Athletic donations are not coming in at the level required to wean our students off of large student fees to support the program. Attendance is 'meh' (17k or so a game - real attendance) and has been stagnant. Our students are not attending the games in numbers as high as we hoped. The local community has been helpful, but instead of having a large group of mildly interested fans in the local community, we have a smaller group of dedicated fans, and getting the wider community to support us has been difficult. Ten years into the program, and we're still trying to get settled as a FBS. I'm glad we did it, but it hasn't been easy.

UALR has a third fewer students. That probably means HIGHER student fees per capita to finance football. Fewer students to draw to the game. They have fewer 4 year alumni too. I think the Razorbacks might cast a longer shadow on Little Rock than the 4 hour away SEC schools do on Mobile.

Unless they can figure out how to make it work without a truly massive student fee or diversion from the academic fund, I think they're going to have a very hard time with it.


The third largest university in Arkansas is not even in D1. They are in D2, and still growing student population. There seems to be a lot of growth with the state public schools in Arkansas except maybe for UCA, UAPB and Little Rock. It depends how will they could recruit in the area. Little Rock took our Women's basketball coach, Joe Foley, but we seemed to still get the better players then Little Rock. Little Rock needs to reshape their image some more, and get a little more serious on their sports.

UCA is growing again after the stink of having two presidents arrested has finally started going away.

But from Fall 2011 to Fall 2015 enrollment at colleges and universities in Arkansas fell 5.4% most of the drop at 2 year schools.
07-17-2017 09:00 AM
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MplsBison Online
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Post: #96
RE: Arkansas Little Rock Football / Marching Band Study
(07-16-2017 02:20 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  Did USA see an enrollment boost associated with FBS? That may well be something UALR will look at in considering moving up...the profile increase and having the football opportunity to offer to students.

Going to HS in Hot Springs, though we moved to Florida before I graduated, I was only considering Arkansas and UALR. I'm not real clear what the draw is for Arkansas State or Central Arkansas. It was basically go to the state flagship or go to Little Rock where there will be internship and networking opportunities. With ASU and UCA having larger student populations, it may be something that UALR is looking at to boost the profile to grow enrollment.

Like I told arkst, the argument against UALR being one of the few Ark public universities not having football can be turned around and used as an argument by UALR admin as to why the school needs to get football.

Ark high school graduates probably almost all go through school with football just being part of the culture, and might feel weird going to a four year undergraduate school that can't even offer one game a year of the Razorbacks for football as part of the student experience.
07-17-2017 10:17 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #97
RE: Arkansas Little Rock Football / Marching Band Study
(07-16-2017 10:10 PM)ARSTATEFAN1986 Wrote:  
(07-16-2017 11:40 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(07-16-2017 11:26 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Basically I see UALR's decision as like USA's.

Here's my view

1) USA has a free place to play, UALR would have a free/almost free place to play
2) Both are in largish metros with no local competition, but with competition for sports loyalty
3) Both have a place to play and an autobid to FBS
4) Both are/were greenfields
5) Neither has a lot of students (USA 16k, UALR 11k)
6) Neither has a history in FCS
7) Both schools, being relatively new (or very small historically) do not have a large number of alumni

USA managed to make the jump, but it was/is a LOT harder than we thought. Athletic donations are not coming in at the level required to wean our students off of large student fees to support the program. Attendance is 'meh' (17k or so a game - real attendance) and has been stagnant. Our students are not attending the games in numbers as high as we hoped. The local community has been helpful, but instead of having a large group of mildly interested fans in the local community, we have a smaller group of dedicated fans, and getting the wider community to support us has been difficult. Ten years into the program, and we're still trying to get settled as a FBS. I'm glad we did it, but it hasn't been easy.

UALR has a third fewer students. That probably means HIGHER student fees per capita to finance football. Fewer students to draw to the game. They have fewer 4 year alumni too. I think the Razorbacks might cast a longer shadow on Little Rock than the 4 hour away SEC schools do on Mobile.

Unless they can figure out how to make it work without a truly massive student fee or diversion from the academic fund, I think they're going to have a very hard time with it.


The third largest university in Arkansas is not even in D1. They are in D2, and still growing student population. There seems to be a lot of growth with the state public schools in Arkansas except maybe for UCA, UAPB and Little Rock. It depends how will they could recruit in the area. Little Rock took our Women's basketball coach, Joe Foley, but we seemed to still get the better players then Little Rock. Little Rock needs to reshape their image some more, and get a little more serious on their sports.

Funniest post yet!!!

03-lmfao03-lmfao03-lmfao03-lmfao03-lmfao03-lmfao03-lmfao03-lmfao03-lmfao03-lmfao03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead


Student body size?
1st:Arkansas
2nd:Arkansas State
3rd:Arkansas Tech
4th:UCA
5th:UALR

Arkansas Tech grew more students in the last 5 years while UALR and UCA fell a bit.
07-17-2017 10:25 AM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #98
RE: Arkansas Little Rock Football / Marching Band Study
(07-16-2017 02:20 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  Did USA see an enrollment boost associated with FBS? That may well be something UALR will look at in considering moving up...the profile increase and having the football opportunity to offer to students.

Going to HS in Hot Springs, though we moved to Florida before I graduated, I was only considering Arkansas and UALR. I'm not real clear what the draw is for Arkansas State or Central Arkansas. It was basically go to the state flagship or go to Little Rock where there will be internship and networking opportunities. With ASU and UCA having larger student populations, it may be something that UALR is looking at to boost the profile to grow enrollment.

I strongly suspect that the reason we moved up was for student recruitment. In general, Southern males consider football to be integral part of a college experience. And Southern females consider southern males to be an integral part of a college experience. A more robust student life helps with student retention too.

USA's goal is to get enrollment about 20k while slightly increasing their admission criteria as well as to help retain students. They think football helps.

Whether its FBS football or a massive new scholarship program, enrollment at USA is rising. 17k will attend this year.

----

The question regarding a move up is this. At what point does the increased student fees and diversion from academic programs create a disincentive that outweighs the benefits?

For USA, the move to FBS came at the same time as a 50 million dollar scholarship program was implemented. So many of our students aren't paying the fee. It would be interesting to see how things would look if there was just a higher fee and no mitigating scholarship program.

----

At UALR, there probably will simply be a new cost for FBS football without any mitigating factors.
(This post was last modified: 07-17-2017 12:22 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
07-17-2017 12:20 PM
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MplsBison Online
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Post: #99
RE: Arkansas Little Rock Football / Marching Band Study
I disagree that any "diversion from academics" has taken place at USA, if the additional football spending has been paid for by an increase in student fees.

The students might not be paying the fee out of pocket, but their scholarship is paying the fee. That's all the same thing to the university's CFO. On the other hand, a lot of times scholarships only cover tuition and maybe some of the core fees, leaving the student to pay fees out of pocket, which isn't that much money.
(This post was last modified: 07-17-2017 12:31 PM by MplsBison.)
07-17-2017 12:27 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #100
RE: Arkansas Little Rock Football / Marching Band Study
(07-17-2017 12:27 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  I disagree that any "diversion from academics" has taken place at USA, if the additional football spending has been paid for by an increase in student fees.

The students might not be paying the fee out of pocket, but their scholarship is paying the fee. That's all the same thing to the university's CFO. On the other hand, a lot of times scholarships only cover tuition and maybe some of the core fees, leaving the student to pay fees out of pocket, which isn't that much money.

To many USA students, they really don't see the fee anyway. Tuition at USA is really cheap, and the truly MASSIVE scholarship program makes it even more inexpensive for many students.

So yes, they're paying the fee, but they're less likely to really notice it.

If it wasn't for the scholarship program increase, there'd probably be some grumbling.
(This post was last modified: 07-17-2017 07:25 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
07-17-2017 07:24 PM
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