(07-16-2017 07:59 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(07-16-2017 04:41 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  No one called Lomax "a program changer" for year 1. Heck most folks think he would be the backup in year 1. This narrative of where so called "Tubby supporters" expect Lomax to be the savior next season is propaganda. It's a narrative brought up by the so called "miserables."

Lomax is an essential get for the '18 class. He will be a really good 4 year player IMO

When does he start being a good player and what do you expect out of him in his 4 years? Numbers aren't the end all, but what do you think he is going to put up as a junior and senior? Do you think he will be a top 20 D1 point guard?

I can't predict the future. All I know is he's a solid PG coming out of Memphis so we better get him. He's not going to make an immediate impact IMO but if he goes the route of a Brogdon, Memphis will be in good hands. Lomax is smaller than Brogdon so he may never get to the 18PPG plateau but IMO he will be a much better assist man. I expect him to be a solid floor leader that will hopefully help turn the program around along with other good players.

We don't have him yet. Do we? He's become a priority for some other teams even.

(07-16-2017 09:29 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  We don't have him yet. Do we? He's become a priority for some other teams even.

Can I get a bet with you too?

(07-16-2017 09:37 PM)Joe1 Wrote:  

(07-16-2017 09:29 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  We don't have him yet. Do we? He's become a priority for some other teams even.

Can I get a bet with you too?

are we talking milkshakes?

(07-16-2017 09:39 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(07-16-2017 09:37 PM)Joe1 Wrote:  

(07-16-2017 09:29 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  We don't have him yet. Do we? He's become a priority for some other teams even.

Can I get a bet with you too?

are we talking milkshakes?

Nope. Cash.

But I'll take your response as a no.

(07-16-2017 09:45 PM)Joe1 Wrote:  

(07-16-2017 09:39 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(07-16-2017 09:37 PM)Joe1 Wrote:  

(07-16-2017 09:29 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  We don't have him yet. Do we? He's become a priority for some other teams even.

Can I get a bet with you too?

are we talking milkshakes?

Nope. Cash.

But I'll take your response as a no.

I have no idea if we are getting him or not.

But I never ever bet against the Tigers...or a Tiger player.

As I recall, you guys aren't supposed to talk about betting here.

I don't think anyone ever thought that Lomax would be a savior . . . I actually think most people (if not all) have been reasonable with their expectations out of Lomax, a solid to good 4 year player. Fingers crossed that he stays home.

(07-16-2017 11:07 PM)EricSigEpTNBeta183 Wrote:  I don't think anyone ever thought that Lomax would be a savior . . . I actually think most people (if not all) have been reasonable with their expectations out of Lomax, a solid to good 4 year player. Fingers crossed that he stays home.

You are correct sir
There are a few that did make the claim that "the optimists" looked at Lomax as a difference maker right out of the gate and that unfair expectations were being dumped on the kid. It was a spurious assumption on their part.

(07-16-2017 11:21 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  

(07-16-2017 11:07 PM)EricSigEpTNBeta183 Wrote:  I don't think anyone ever thought that Lomax would be a savior . . . I actually think most people (if not all) have been reasonable with their expectations out of Lomax, a solid to good 4 year player. Fingers crossed that he stays home.

You are correct sir
There are a few that did make the claim that "the optimists" looked at Lomax as a difference maker right out of the gate and that unfair expectations were being dumped on the kid. It was a spurious assumption on their part.

Lomax is a good all around point guard and will certainly help our team. I hope people aren't expecting a savior and think he will lead us to a championship in his first season. Unfortunately, Joe Jackson was hit with those ridiculous expectations and when we should have been praising him, too many threw him under the bus to protect their beloved coach.

i'll bet a shake

#joe

(07-16-2017 11:30 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(07-16-2017 11:21 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  

(07-16-2017 11:07 PM)EricSigEpTNBeta183 Wrote:  I don't think anyone ever thought that Lomax would be a savior . . . I actually think most people (if not all) have been reasonable with their expectations out of Lomax, a solid to good 4 year player. Fingers crossed that he stays home.

You are correct sir
There are a few that did make the claim that "the optimists" looked at Lomax as a difference maker right out of the gate and that unfair expectations were being dumped on the kid. It was a spurious assumption on their part.

It is unfortunate. Lomax is a good all around point guard and I expect to land him. There are those who have hanged their hats on him and thinks he will be Derrick Rose on steroids and lead us to a championship in his first season and when he doesn't he will be thrown under the bus the same as many players have been for the past 6 seasons all for the love of a coach.

The two that jump out at you are Tiger87 and Joe1. Tiger87 sees no difference in the #22 and the #123 recruit, because they are both 4* and sees Lomax as similar to Elliot Williams. Obviously, none of this makes any sense.

Joe1 has a nervous breakdown whenever someone tempers their expectations and claims that comparing Lomax to Willie Kemp is "ridiculous" as if somehow we should expect Lomax to be better than him or Chiozza.

You look at a guy like Burks; whose range was no more than 8' and didn't really know how to run a team in control when he got here. His senior season is for sure one of the top 10 seasons of all time for a Tiger point guard, if not top 5. He was the complete package by the time he left.

It is possible that Lomax will turn into a great player, but if he ends up being a 12 and 5 guy who runs the offense efficiently and plays good defense, that will be a huge triumph for him and us.

(07-16-2017 11:38 PM)BandwagonJumper Wrote:  i'll bet a shake

#joe

(07-16-2017 11:30 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(07-16-2017 11:21 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  

(07-16-2017 11:07 PM)EricSigEpTNBeta183 Wrote:  I don't think anyone ever thought that Lomax would be a savior . . . I actually think most people (if not all) have been reasonable with their expectations out of Lomax, a solid to good 4 year player. Fingers crossed that he stays home.

You are correct sir
There are a few that did make the claim that "the optimists" looked at Lomax as a difference maker right out of the gate and that unfair expectations were being dumped on the kid. It was a spurious assumption on their part.

Lomax is a good all around point guard and will certainly help our team. I hope people aren't expecting a savior and think he will lead us to a championship in his first season. Unfortunately, Joe Jackson was hit with those ridiculous expectations and when we should have been praising him, too many threw him under the bus to protect their beloved coach.

Other than maybe one poster a while back, I haven't seen anyone mention him as a savior.

(07-17-2017 02:00 AM)tiger1016 Wrote:  

(07-16-2017 11:30 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(07-16-2017 11:21 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  

(07-16-2017 11:07 PM)EricSigEpTNBeta183 Wrote:  I don't think anyone ever thought that Lomax would be a savior . . . I actually think most people (if not all) have been reasonable with their expectations out of Lomax, a solid to good 4 year player. Fingers crossed that he stays home.

You are correct sir
There are a few that did make the claim that "the optimists" looked at Lomax as a difference maker right out of the gate and that unfair expectations were being dumped on the kid. It was a spurious assumption on their part.

Lomax is a good all around point guard and will certainly help our team. I hope people aren't expecting a savior and think he will lead us to a championship in his first season. Unfortunately, Joe Jackson was hit with those ridiculous expectations and when we should have been praising him, too many threw him under the bus to protect their beloved coach.

Other than maybe one poster a while back, I haven't seen anyone mention him as a savior.

Dissatisfied fans are expecting Tubby to 1) start recruiting elite players and 2) get Memphis kids.

Tubby defenders are trying to kill two birds with one stone by pushing Lomax as the answer to both.

Rational people recognize that a 4* ranked in the 100-120's is not a program changer/impact player that can turn around a team's fortunes single handedly.

Those folks are getting pushback and being considered miserable just because they recognize a Lomax type player isn't the guy who can come into the season and make Memphis go from 18 wins to 23 just because of his addition.

So, getting Lomax will satisfy #2 but not #1.

(07-17-2017 02:48 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(07-17-2017 02:00 AM)tiger1016 Wrote:  

(07-16-2017 11:30 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(07-16-2017 11:21 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  

(07-16-2017 11:07 PM)EricSigEpTNBeta183 Wrote:  I don't think anyone ever thought that Lomax would be a savior . . . I actually think most people (if not all) have been reasonable with their expectations out of Lomax, a solid to good 4 year player. Fingers crossed that he stays home.

You are correct sir
There are a few that did make the claim that "the optimists" looked at Lomax as a difference maker right out of the gate and that unfair expectations were being dumped on the kid. It was a spurious assumption on their part.

Lomax is a good all around point guard and will certainly help our team. I hope people aren't expecting a savior and think he will lead us to a championship in his first season. Unfortunately, Joe Jackson was hit with those ridiculous expectations and when we should have been praising him, too many threw him under the bus to protect their beloved coach.

Other than maybe one poster a while back, I haven't seen anyone mention him as a savior.

Dissatisfied fans are expecting Tubby to 1) start recruiting elite players and 2) get Memphis kids.

Tubby defenders are trying to kill two birds with one stone by pushing Lomax as the answer to both.

Rational people recognize that a 4* ranked in the 100-120's is not a program changer/impact player that can turn around a team's fortunes single handedly.

Those folks are getting pushback and being considered miserable just because they recognize a Lomax type player isn't the guy who can come into the season and make Memphis go from 18 wins to 23 just because of his addition.

So, getting Lomax will satisfy #2 but not #1.

I push Lomax (much like I use to push Joe) because he is tough as nails and I like his game. That plus I want him to be a Memphis Tiger because, like you, I'm a life long Memphis fan. Tubby has zero to do with me wanting Lomax to be a Tiger. I pushed Perry and Penny and went to many Treadwell High games. I pushed Sylvester Grey and went to many Bolton High games, I pushed Andre Turner and went to some Mitchell High games.

Tyler is more Joe than Alex is.

(07-17-2017 04:13 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  Tyler is more Joe than Alex is.

That's not what I meant. I guess it's entirely possible but I don't see Harris doing what Joe did both high school and college. Joe scored the ball no matter what type of D was being put on him. Joe ended his high school career the second leading scorer in the state of TN and then finished 7th on all time scoring list for Memphis. My comparison between the two is just good hard nose tough Memphis guards, not the same type games at all. Lomax is a pure point guard that is built like a small tank and tough and isn't scared to have the ball in his hands in crunch time. He makes everyone around him better.

(07-17-2017 02:48 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(07-17-2017 02:00 AM)tiger1016 Wrote:  

(07-16-2017 11:30 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(07-16-2017 11:21 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  

(07-16-2017 11:07 PM)EricSigEpTNBeta183 Wrote:  I don't think anyone ever thought that Lomax would be a savior . . . I actually think most people (if not all) have been reasonable with their expectations out of Lomax, a solid to good 4 year player. Fingers crossed that he stays home.

You are correct sir
There are a few that did make the claim that "the optimists" looked at Lomax as a difference maker right out of the gate and that unfair expectations were being dumped on the kid. It was a spurious assumption on their part.

Lomax is a good all around point guard and will certainly help our team. I hope people aren't expecting a savior and think he will lead us to a championship in his first season. Unfortunately, Joe Jackson was hit with those ridiculous expectations and when we should have been praising him, too many threw him under the bus to protect their beloved coach.

Other than maybe one poster a while back, I haven't seen anyone mention him as a savior.

Dissatisfied fans are expecting Tubby to 1) start recruiting elite players and 2) get Memphis kids.

Tubby defenders are trying to kill two birds with one stone by pushing Lomax as the answer to both.

Rational people recognize that a 4* ranked in the 100-120's is not a program changer/impact player that can turn around a team's fortunes single handedly.

Those folks are getting pushback and being considered miserable just because they recognize a Lomax type player isn't the guy who can come into the season and make Memphis go from 18 wins to 23 just because of his addition.

So, getting Lomax will satisfy #2 but not #1.

I think that's a fair summary. I would further point out:
A) VERY few 5 star rated players are program changers. Practically zero 4 star players are program changers.
B) Expecting a 4 star to be a true direction changer is a longshot.
C) Derek rose might have been worth 5 wins as a freshman. Tyreke, maybe. Elliot, probably. Lomax? Hard to see.
D) there's a definite lull in highest-level HS players in Memphis for now.

I can't think of anyone that thinks Lomax will turn things around by himself. But, I think he would be a very good four year point guard. We haven't had that in some time. He'll have a chance to learn the college game by backing up Martin.

We need a good 2018 class. Hopefully one that will form a core of solid players. It helps to sign top local kids, shows we're still a relevant program. Hopefully, it will start some momentum.

He doesn't need to score 20 points a game to be an outstanding point guard.

(07-16-2017 10:46 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(07-16-2017 10:31 AM)Joe1 Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 10:12 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  https://n.rivals.com/prospect_rankings/rivals150/2018

Of note:

#88 Tyler Harris
#122 Alex Lomax
#128 Ryan Boyce

I will admit I do not know what all goes into ranking these players, that said I sat right near half court and saw Lomax dismantle Harris. He chewed him up as if Harris was a fifth grader. It wasn't even close. I went to the game to see two great guards battle each other and it wasn't close. If left alone (un-guarded) I'm sure he would score plenty, but obviously Penny told Lomax face guard the heck out of him and be physical and shut him down, and that's what happened. I believe Lomax is better than his ranking.
Please understand and know this Saluki, I am not at all trying to argue with you or the rankings that you've posted or just how good Lomax is. Just wanted to add first hand what I saw and that I think Lomax is better than the ranking he's been given.

I have not seen Boyce play but have been hearing great things about him. I plan on checking him out this upcoming season.

Nobody is saying that Lomax is bad and let's assume that we agree that he is better than his ranking. Everything in the history of recruiting, first year players, first year point guards and first year point guards that aren't tall, point to them taking a long time to adjust to the game and excel, if they ever do.

I also understand that Joe Jackson wasn't a pure point guard, but he still took a long time to become a good player, and Willie Kemp was much more highly regarded than Lomax and he never really put it together.

We all get that Lomax is a good recruit, all we are saying is that it is extremely unreasonable and unfair of our own fans to expect him to come in and be an above average D1 point guard his first two seasons.

Jackson could have matured and transitioned in 2 years had he been working with a coaching staff that could actually help transition him. Pastner was a great "face" for the program when we got him, unfortunately player development was far from his strong suite. I wish him nothing the best though.