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A Thoughtful Outlook
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nj alum Offline
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Post: #11
RE: A Thoughtful Outlook
I would add another thought.

IMO, the canaries in the coal mine are Army and Navy. If they leave the Patriot for the AAC, that will be the sign of a real split between the haves and the have nots. For congressional reasons, the real split can not occur unless Army and Navy are protected.

I hope we don't jump to the Patriot to be with Army and Navy, only to have Army and Navy move on.

IMO, our best bet is to force the issue by having the CAA football conference move up as a league before Army and Navy move, and the door shuts behind them.
07-11-2017 08:20 AM
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Sitting bull Offline
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Post: #12
RE: A Thoughtful Outlook
Army and Navy see themselves - rightfully so - as top tier, national "universities" in terms of football. That is always going to drive their athletic position. They have no interest in joining ranks in a football equation with anything or anyone that even smells FCS. An occasional game, yes. A wider affiliation, no way.

I don't see either figuring into W&M football plans. We are happy at FCS, they never would be.
07-11-2017 08:33 AM
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Zorch Offline
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Post: #13
RE: A Thoughtful Outlook
(07-11-2017 06:03 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 02:43 PM)Zorch Wrote:  So, bottom line, I am okay with being THE flagship program of the CAA (regardless of what JMU thinks; total conference championships mean more than the occasional football national championship).

I don't care to argue JMU vs W&M as CAA "flagship". I have plenty of respect for W&M and appreciate how unique the College is as far as having real academic standards for ALL students. I will just offer that JMU fully funds ALL sports while W&M does not, so by that measure, W&M has some catching up to do. If measuring by number of annual conference championships earned, I have no qualms bowing to the Tribe's prowess. Not trying to put words in your mouth, but the above came across to me as if we are some kind of football version of VCU with all eggs in one basket (football).

I am recalling this from memory so perhaps the numbers have changed. However, I remember reading once that JMU only has about 15 or 16 sports. W&M has 23. It is harder to fully fund 23, plus JMU's student body is 2-3 times as large as W&M's (thus, W&M loses out on that many more student athletic fees). By the way, I do not lower JMU into the same "eggs" category as VCU (ugh!). JMU has a very good Women's Basketball team and an even better Women's Softball team.
07-11-2017 09:36 AM
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #14
RE: A Thoughtful Outlook
(07-11-2017 06:03 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 02:43 PM)Zorch Wrote:  So, bottom line, I am okay with being THE flagship program of the CAA (regardless of what JMU thinks; total conference championships mean more than the occasional football national championship).

I don't care to argue JMU vs W&M as CAA "flagship". I have plenty of respect for W&M and appreciate how unique the College is as far as having real academic standards for ALL students. I will just offer that JMU fully funds ALL sports while W&M does not, so by that measure, W&M has some catching up to do. If measuring by number of annual conference championships earned, I have no qualms bowing to the Tribe's prowess. Not trying to put words in your mouth, but the above came across to me as if we are some kind of football version of VCU with all eggs in one basket (football).
Sorry, I'm still laughing at my Tribe brother for stating that all of our XC, tennis, and swimming conference championships trumps 2 FCS titles within the past 11 years.

And, IMO, the CAA has no flagship school...the conference merely has a few founding members who are still sitting on the same bar stool.

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07-11-2017 09:49 AM
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TribeNomad Offline
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Post: #15
RE: A Thoughtful Outlook
Agree. And sometimes (with no excuse for alcohol), the fannies are slipping of the seats.
07-11-2017 09:52 AM
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mrjoolius Offline
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Post: #16
RE: A Thoughtful Outlook
I kind of agree. As great as it is to offer all of these well rounded successful sports offerings, I'm of the mindset that I would cut every one of the non big 3 or 4 sports if it meant putting out a consistent winning and money making product. . It wouldn't be a popular opinion, nor jibe with the schools vision.
07-11-2017 12:11 PM
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Zorch Offline
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Post: #17
RE: A Thoughtful Outlook
[/quote]
IMO, the CAA has no flagship school...the conference merely has a few founding members who are still sitting on the same bar stool.
[/quote]

Unfortunately, you are right about this. The problem, for many years now, is that the CAA has never appreciated W&M and given us our due. They, like many posters here, seem to value only the football and men's basketball prowess and to devalue all the successes in all the other sports. I blame Tom Yeager for this. He always favored JMU over us (he has two daughters who graduated from JMU and the picture of his retirement sendoff at JMU where he was wearing a purple JMU sweater really hammered the point home). Anyway, I don't think W&M has used its "founding father" voice often enough or loud enough (at least publicly) on important CAA issues (like defections).
07-11-2017 12:21 PM
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Zorch Offline
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Post: #18
RE: A Thoughtful Outlook
(07-11-2017 12:11 PM)mrjoolius Wrote:  I kind of agree. As great as it is to offer all of these well rounded successful sports offerings, I'm of the mindset that I would cut every one of the non big 3 or 4 sports if it meant putting out a consistent winning and money making product. . It wouldn't be a popular opinion, nor jibe with the schools vision.

Definitely not a popular opinion with me. I'll cite two reasons:

1. My daughter graduated from W&M and she ran track while she was there. Her freshman year, the team won the CAA championship. I can guarantee you that the good vibes, the excitement, the memories, the team and fan camaraderie, etc etc were just as meaningful to her (and will continue to be far into the future) as would the same feelings be for a member of our football team after a CAA championship. So, therefore, I would never be in favor of taking away any of these championship experiences for our students who don't happen to average 4 yards a carry or who aren't 6'7" and score 20 points a game.

2. I don't think that we need to cut any sports in order to field consistent winning teams (the money-making part is more problematic). Look at it this way: we are already winning CAA championships on a regular (XC, WTennis, WSwimming, MSwimming, Gymnastics (not CAA)) or occasional (T&F, Football, MSoccer, WSoccer, Baseball) basis and our M Basketball is good now and no longer anything for us to be ashamed of. Our W Basketball is on the rise and so is Field Hockey. So if we are that good using the current model then, IMO, all we need to do is tweak certain things (especially in basketball) in order to consistently win in all sports. Again, no need to cut any sports in order to get there. We just need an AD with vision who can tap into the passionate resources of the Tribe faithful. Just look at the Tribe fans who were in the stands for our recent attempts to win the CAA championship in M Basketball (and I was one of them): you have never seen hungrier people just waiting for their joy to be unleashed. So let's harness all that but, by no means, let us cut any existing sports.
07-11-2017 12:38 PM
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Rocco Online
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Post: #19
RE: A Thoughtful Outlook
http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

W&M had $26M in revenue. They have 23 varsity teams. VT, for example had almost ~$84M and 19 varsity teams. JMU has 18 teams and $47M in revenue. New Mexico State (just ahead of W&M) has 16 teams. Missouri State has 14 teams.

I'm no budget expert but I think I've found the problem.
07-11-2017 01:08 PM
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LeadBolt Offline
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Post: #20
RE: A Thoughtful Outlook
I would be happy supporting the same number of sports we currently support with the revenue VCU has for fewer sports.

According to the article, through 2011 W&M had higher sports revenues than VCU.

In 2016 they were 85th in revenue and we were 115th. This basically shows the ROI for BB, imho.
07-11-2017 01:26 PM
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