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Carlton: Big 12 has found its worst enemy
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Pony94 Offline
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Post: #21
Carlton: Big 12 has found its worst enemy
(07-10-2017 12:57 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 11:51 AM)JHS55 Wrote:  Texas was bluffing about houston

Texas Gov pushed it hard, and I think (wild guess) agreed to get UT Houston greenlit in exchange for U Houston in the Big 12.


No he didn't.
07-10-2017 12:58 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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RE: Carlton: Big 12 has found its worst enemy
(This post was last modified: 07-10-2017 01:00 PM by MplsBison.)
07-10-2017 12:58 PM
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SMUmustangs Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Carlton: Big 12 has found its worst enemy
(07-10-2017 10:25 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Everything I've read says that there was a serious attempt by Kentucky politicians to get Louisville in the spot that ultimately went to West Virginia.

That means that probably at least half of the remaining eight teams (five Big 8 teams, and three SWC teams) thought that Louisville would've been a worthy add to pair with TCU.


So why didn't they just add both?!

There was an attempt by one Senator from Louisville, and old friend of Senator David Boren, to get Louisville into the Big12.

However, the thing that every one seems to forget, is that the TV networks reportedly told the Big12 that Louisville added nothing for the networks. It seems that Louisville had great fan support locally ....however, outside of their immediate area they did not turn on any TV sets. Then the Big12 opted for West Virginia.
07-10-2017 01:10 PM
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Carlton: Big 12 has found its worst enemy
(07-10-2017 01:10 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 10:25 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Everything I've read says that there was a serious attempt by Kentucky politicians to get Louisville in the spot that ultimately went to West Virginia.

That means that probably at least half of the remaining eight teams (five Big 8 teams, and three SWC teams) thought that Louisville would've been a worthy add to pair with TCU.


So why didn't they just add both?!

There was an attempt by one Senator from Louisville, and old friend of Senator David Boren, to get Louisville into the Big12.

However, the thing that every one seems to forget, is that the TV networks reportedly told the Big12 that Louisville added nothing for the networks. It seems that Louisville had great fan support locally ....however, outside of their immediate area they did not turn on any TV sets. Then the Big12 opted for West Virginia.

Apparently it's worked well for the ACC.
07-10-2017 01:15 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Carlton: Big 12 has found its worst enemy
(07-10-2017 11:05 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  I know you're right. Just as we all know hindsight is 20/20. Probably also has to do with your first post, about them thinking they could poach bigger schools.

Could've still taken Houston + 1 more last year, but as we know the Big 8 schools blocked Houston and Texas blocked any expansion without Houston.

How do we know that? There's a lot of speculation around different scenarios, but I don't believe there was ever any kind of announcement of who favored whom.

I think it's more likely they just didn't agree that expansion was necessary, and opted instead to keep the per school payout high.
07-10-2017 01:18 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Carlton: Big 12 has found its worst enemy
It's my speculation. Based on public announcements from Texas state government leaders stated that Big 12 expansion would not be allowed without Houston.

I speculate that Texas tried to force Houston into the expansion, but Big 8 schools blocked it. There were public comments I believe from coaches at both K-State and Oklahoma State (maybe Oklahoma) complaining about losing (more) Texas recruits to Houston if they were added to the conference.
07-10-2017 01:21 PM
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Carlton: Big 12 has found its worst enemy
(07-10-2017 10:56 AM)msm96wolf Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 10:22 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 09:56 AM)msm96wolf Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 09:19 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 08:44 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Louisville & BYU?

I believe Pittsburgh & the B12 were in talks before A&M & Missouri left, would they still have left if Pitt & Syracuse were coming in? If so then still replace them with TCU & WV. Add Louisville & BYU for 14. Would ND find a B12 with those 14 schools more enticing? Cincinnati to the ACC to replace Maryland?

What if scenario:

XII loses Colorado to PAC, Nebraska to B1G, and Texas A&M with Missouri to SEC - 8 remain.

XII adds West Virginia, Louisville, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Connecticut, TCU, and Houston.

XII East: Connecticut, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Louisville, West Virginia, TCU, Houston
XII West: Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Kansas, Kansas St, Iowa St

At that time, I am not sure 6 teams would have been added let alone 8. I could see FSU, Clemson, Louisville and WVU would have been excellent objectives to take from the BE and ACC.

If the ACC wins out over the B12 to create a P4, I think it will have more to do with poor B12 decision to not let teams in and the ACC jumping on those mistakes to keep FSU and Clemson happy. SYC, PITT, Louisville and ND OOC long term deal seem to have worked okay for the conference. 2023 will be some interesting negotations. I am envisioning another BE type football chaos during the this period. It should make for an interesting summer in 2023.

I agree that it is a ridiculous number, but something the XII could have had which would have given the XII at least some stability. If Texas and Oklahoma left, while that might've hurt pretty bad, the XII would still be a power conference. Today, if OU/UT left, it would not get the agreements in place to remain a power.

I don't think it is an IF. The ACC will win out over the XII. ESPN won't allow it otherwise. Also, North Carolina holds a lot of power and the Southern ACC football schools seem to be content with dominating football and getting high quality bowl bids every year. I imagine the B1G, SEC, and ACC being totally fine with the PAC following as surviving - not in the sense the old Big East or the current XII are "surviving" but surviving as in no gain but no loss either.

Well I tend to agree with you, I have learned some posters are touchy on this subject. It was my effort to state it will be between the B12/ACC. If I was betting man, I know which way I bet today. I have to be honest though, at the end of the BCS, not quite sure that would be the horse I would have betted on then. 04-cheers

I don't know why, I just feel Ninja Swofford may acheive his holy grail dream and will retire on that note in 2025. 03-wink

Had the Big XII of A&M, Texas, OU, Nebraska, and Kansas held together and didn't have endless amounts of mistrust and cultural issues, it would be a super power. All of those schools bring substantial athletic firepower to the table.

Had the SWC and then B12 been able to hold on to Arkansas, my above point is even more true.

However, a huge amount of their potential slipped through their fingers.
07-10-2017 01:22 PM
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SMUmustangs Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Carlton: Big 12 has found its worst enemy
(07-10-2017 01:15 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 01:10 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 10:25 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Everything I've read says that there was a serious attempt by Kentucky politicians to get Louisville in the spot that ultimately went to West Virginia.

That means that probably at least half of the remaining eight teams (five Big 8 teams, and three SWC teams) thought that Louisville would've been a worthy add to pair with TCU.


So why didn't they just add both?!

There was an attempt by one Senator from Louisville, and old friend of Senator David Boren, to get Louisville into the Big12.

However, the thing that every one seems to forget, is that the TV networks reportedly told the Big12 that Louisville added nothing for the networks. It seems that Louisville had great fan support locally ....however, outside of their immediate area they did not turn on any TV sets. Then the Big12 opted for West Virginia.

Apparently it's worked well for the ACC.

How do you know that ...did Louisville greatly enhance the ACC tv contract? I do not know if it did or not. I was just telling you why the Big12 passed on Louisville
(This post was last modified: 07-10-2017 01:33 PM by SMUmustangs.)
07-10-2017 01:27 PM
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msm96wolf Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Carlton: Big 12 has found its worst enemy
I would say Lville and ACC are both happy with how it worked out.
07-10-2017 01:55 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Carlton: Big 12 has found its worst enemy
(07-10-2017 01:27 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 01:15 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 01:10 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  ...the thing that every one seems to forget, is that the TV networks reportedly told the Big12 that Louisville added nothing for the networks. It seems that Louisville had great fan support locally ....however, outside of their immediate area they did not turn on any TV sets. Then the Big12 opted for West Virginia.

Apparently it's worked well for the ACC.

How do you know that ...did Louisville greatly enhance the ACC tv contract? I do not know if it did or not. I was just telling you why the Big12 passed on Louisville

It's a matter of record that losing Maryland and replacing them with Louisville was a revenue-neutral move for the ACC. Does that mean that Louisville is worth the same as Maryland? Not necessarily. Remember, when the Big XII initially lost Nebraska and Colorado and responded by simply increasing the conference schedule from 8 games to 9, ESPN agreed to pay the same and Fox actually paid a little more (IIRC).

All that said, Louisville has been a valuable addition to ACC sports and I don't think anyone can argue that the Big XII made a tactical error in not inviting the Cardinals - along with the Mountaineers - when they had the chance.
(This post was last modified: 07-10-2017 02:12 PM by Hokie Mark.)
07-10-2017 02:11 PM
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