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Redoing Realignment: Big East with Boise St. and SDSU
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megadrone Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Redoing Realignment: Big East with Boise St. and SDSU
(07-08-2017 08:37 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 04:34 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 04:24 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 04:04 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  If those two stayed with the Big East/AAC, I'd assume AQ or power status remained, as well. So, the bloc remains a P6 structure.

You probably get AFA and BYU eventually in the AAC.

MWC at that point is CUSA-west. The merger moves forward, and the only thing causing any swaps within CUSA is whether UTEP, Rice, and Tulsa want to send their kids west to play sports or east.

As a tangent, I've wondered about ACC taking on non-fb schools when so many Big East members applied to the ACC after the Pitt-Cuse shocker. Specifically, if the conference took Villanova and/or Marquette.

From what I recall, Georgetown, St. Johns and Villanova all were talked about as potential non-football members in the ACC. I don't think Providence or Seton Hall were. I know that DePaul and Marquette were most certainly not. In the end, the money clearly was not enough for any member of the C7 to get invited (or accept an invite) to the ACC, nor did any of the C7 wish to continue to be a passenger on the football bus once again.

Were Georgetown, St Johns and Nova actively trying to get into the ACC as non-football members? All 3 play FCS football correct? Would they have tried to move football into the ACC like Villanova almost did in the Big East?

Villanova applied during that panic post-Pitt and Cuse. When they closed the book of FBS in 2013, they said they saw themselves aligned with ACC schools and that was no longer a possibility.

I think, if that also happened to the Big East, especially if the duo of Nova and GTown were plucked, does the split even happen? What happens with a C5? I think the conference beefs up on hoops and the rocky union remains for a bit. BB schools, and if so, who?

There are a lot of ifs here.

If the Big East retained Boise and San Diego, if the BCS stayed together, if the AQ stayed with the Big East, if Rutgers and Louisville don't leave, etc.

If the BCS still changes to the playoff, that would have done in the Big East. Then Boise and SDSU look to leave. IF (and this is huge assumption) the Big 10 doesn't invite Maryland and Rutgers, perhaps its still enough to keep the conference together.

What would it look like?

Full Membership:

Providence
St. John's
Seton Hall
Villanova (FCS football)
Georgetown (FCS football)
Marquette
De Paul
Connecticut
Rutgers
Temple
Cincinnati
Louisville
Memphis
Central Florida
South Florida
Houston
SMU

Football Only:
Navy
ECU

It's still an unwieldy 17 team conference. Maybe this could have stayed together, but the TV contract isn't what it needs to be. I'd ask the Big East fans on the board to comment here.

But as bad as Rutgers has been in basketball, replacing them and Louisville with Tulane and ECU for full membership still would have broken the camels back. I think the change from the BCS to the CFP was inevitable, and Boise and San Diego State would not have been members for long. I also think Notre Dame leaves for the ACC no matter what, once Syracuse and Pitt leave.

The Big 10 inviting Maryland and Rutgers would truly have been the straw that broke the camels back, although as was reported earlier in the thread, the C7 was planning the break from the time Syracuse and Pitt left.

Just my opinion and I don't have anything to back it up. I wouldn't expect the C7 to even stay in this configuration tbh, but there's a chance they might.
07-08-2017 10:22 AM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Redoing Realignment: Big East with Boise St. and SDSU
(07-08-2017 10:22 AM)megadrone Wrote:  
(07-08-2017 08:37 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 04:34 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 04:24 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 04:04 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  If those two stayed with the Big East/AAC, I'd assume AQ or power status remained, as well. So, the bloc remains a P6 structure.

You probably get AFA and BYU eventually in the AAC.

MWC at that point is CUSA-west. The merger moves forward, and the only thing causing any swaps within CUSA is whether UTEP, Rice, and Tulsa want to send their kids west to play sports or east.

As a tangent, I've wondered about ACC taking on non-fb schools when so many Big East members applied to the ACC after the Pitt-Cuse shocker. Specifically, if the conference took Villanova and/or Marquette.

From what I recall, Georgetown, St. Johns and Villanova all were talked about as potential non-football members in the ACC. I don't think Providence or Seton Hall were. I know that DePaul and Marquette were most certainly not. In the end, the money clearly was not enough for any member of the C7 to get invited (or accept an invite) to the ACC, nor did any of the C7 wish to continue to be a passenger on the football bus once again.

Were Georgetown, St Johns and Nova actively trying to get into the ACC as non-football members? All 3 play FCS football correct? Would they have tried to move football into the ACC like Villanova almost did in the Big East?

Villanova applied during that panic post-Pitt and Cuse. When they closed the book of FBS in 2013, they said they saw themselves aligned with ACC schools and that was no longer a possibility.

I think, if that also happened to the Big East, especially if the duo of Nova and GTown were plucked, does the split even happen? What happens with a C5? I think the conference beefs up on hoops and the rocky union remains for a bit. BB schools, and if so, who?

There are a lot of ifs here.

If the Big East retained Boise and San Diego, if the BCS stayed together, if the AQ stayed with the Big East, if Rutgers and Louisville don't leave, etc.

If the BCS still changes to the playoff, that would have done in the Big East. Then Boise and SDSU look to leave. IF (and this is huge assumption) the Big 10 doesn't invite Maryland and Rutgers, perhaps its still enough to keep the conference together.

What would it look like?

Full Membership:

Providence
St. John's
Seton Hall
Villanova (FCS football)
Georgetown (FCS football)
Marquette
De Paul
Connecticut
Rutgers
Temple
Cincinnati
Louisville
Memphis
Central Florida
South Florida
Houston
SMU

Football Only:
Navy
ECU

It's still an unwieldy 17 team conference. Maybe this could have stayed together, but the TV contract isn't what it needs to be. I'd ask the Big East fans on the board to comment here.

But as bad as Rutgers has been in basketball, replacing them and Louisville with Tulane and ECU for full membership still would have broken the camels back. I think the change from the BCS to the CFP was inevitable, and Boise and San Diego State would not have been members for long. I also think Notre Dame leaves for the ACC no matter what, once Syracuse and Pitt leave.

The Big 10 inviting Maryland and Rutgers would truly have been the straw that broke the camels back, although as was reported earlier in the thread, the C7 was planning the break from the time Syracuse and Pitt left.

Just my opinion and I don't have anything to back it up. I wouldn't expect the C7 to even stay in this configuration tbh, but there's a chance they might.

I don't that keeps things together. The money still would not have been there. Basketball wise, we were swapping out Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame and West Virginia for Memphis, Houston, SMU, Temple and UCF. There's no way that ESPN would have given the basketball teams more (or even the same amount of) money.

The Maryland/Rutgers/Louisville moves were what turned separation discussions into actions.
07-08-2017 11:06 AM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Redoing Realignment: Big East with Boise St. and SDSU
MWC would have stayed at 10. WIthin a few years we'd have added Rice and UTEP

Texas State has never been on the MWC radar. North Texas is ahead of them. Idaho was also never under consideration.

New Mexico State was actually considered for a 13th (12th in Basketball), but Barbara Coulture made such a mess of the presentation that she pretty much killed that possibility maybe forever.
07-08-2017 11:16 AM
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ken d Online
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Post: #24
RE: Redoing Realignment: Big East with Boise St. and SDSU
(07-07-2017 04:04 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  If those two stayed with the Big East/AAC, I'd assume AQ or power status remained, as well. So, the bloc remains a P6 structure.

You probably get AFA and BYU eventually in the AAC.

MWC at that point is CUSA-west. The merger moves forward, and the only thing causing any swaps within CUSA is whether UTEP, Rice, and Tulsa want to send their kids west to play sports or east.

As a tangent, I've wondered about ACC taking on non-fb schools when so many Big East members applied to the ACC after the Pitt-Cuse shocker. Specifically, if the conference took Villanova and/or Marquette.

I don't believe that the Big East would have retained power status, with or without the addition of these two schools. And I don't think that their addition would have prevented the breakup of the BE or the defection of some of its members to conferences in the "High Resource" group.

Because of that, I don't believe either Boise or SDSU would have stayed in the AAC once the CFP was established.
07-08-2017 01:38 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Redoing Realignment: Big East with Boise St. and SDSU
(07-08-2017 11:16 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  MWC would have stayed at 10. WIthin a few years we'd have added Rice and UTEP

Texas State has never been on the MWC radar. North Texas is ahead of them. Idaho was also never under consideration.

New Mexico State was actually considered for a 13th (12th in Basketball), but Barbara Coulture made such a mess of the presentation that she pretty much killed that possibility maybe forever.

The MWC wasn't going to take NMSU. In fact, they were dismissed early on when the MWC commish said something like, "UNM did push for NMSU to gain entrance, but we aren't interested at this time"...that sort of statement says a lot. I also doubt UNM wanted NMSU in the their conference. UNM and UTEP have been blocking NMSU for 50 years. I suppose DavidSt can tell us about the Border Conference days when they were all one big happy family in the 40's and 50's.
07-08-2017 03:40 PM
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CougarRed Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Redoing Realignment: Big East with Boise St. and SDSU
(07-07-2017 05:00 PM)YNot Wrote:  So, it's not too late...

FOOTBALL
- UConn, Temple, Cincy, ECU, UCF, USF, Memphis, Tulane
- Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Navy, Boise St., SDSU, AFA, UNLV/CSU

OLYMPIC SPORTS
- UConn, Temple, Cincy, ECU, UCF, USF, Memphis, Tulane, VCU
- Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Wichita, Boise St., SDSU, AFA, UNLV/CSU, BYU

First, Aresco is on record that the only schools that we have showed any interest in are BYU, Air Force and Army.

Second, I can't ever see Aresco or the American raiding another conference to the point where it had to expand to survive. The MWC has 11 all-sport members. You need 8 to have a conference. So I can't ever see the American taking more than 3 MWC teams.

And I can't see Aresco "raiding" to begin with. He would, however, consider MWC schools if they approached him.

Based on academics, fan support, overall program success, geographics and/or football tradition/TV appeal, here are the MWC schools that Aresco would never consider:

UNLV
Nevada
San Jose
Fresno St
Utah St
Hawaii

The other 6 schools would have a chance, and that's being charitable to Wyoming.

However, I still think nothing happens until the Big 12's future is resolved UNLESS the next MWC TV deal is peanuts compared to the American.
07-08-2017 07:57 PM
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panite Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Redoing Realignment: Big East with Boise St. and SDSU
(07-07-2017 05:00 PM)YNot Wrote:  So, it's not too late...

FOOTBALL
- UConn, Temple, Cincy, ECU, UCF, USF, Memphis, Tulane
- Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Navy, Boise St., SDSU, AFA, UNLV/CSU

OLYMPIC SPORTS
- UConn, Temple, Cincy, ECU, UCF, USF, Memphis, Tulane, VCU
- Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Wichita, Boise St., SDSU, AFA, UNLV/CSU, BYU

If you want Air Force you need to take CSU.
07-09-2017 06:14 AM
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CougarRed Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Redoing Realignment: Big East with Boise St. and SDSU
Right. This might work if Air Force and Colo St approached us.

FOOTBALL - 14
- UConn, Temple, Cincy, ECU, UCF, USF, Memphis
- Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Tulane, Navy, Air Force, Colo St

OLYMPIC SPORTS - 16
- UConn, Temple, Cincy, ECU, UCF, USF, Memphis, VCU
- Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Tulane, Air Force, Colo St, BYU, Wichita St.
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2017 06:31 AM by CougarRed.)
07-09-2017 06:29 AM
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DavidSt Online
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Post: #29
RE: Redoing Realignment: Big East with Boise St. and SDSU
(07-09-2017 06:29 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  Right. This might work if Air Force and Colo St approached us.

FOOTBALL - 14
- UConn, Temple, Cincy, ECU, UCF, USF, Memphis
- Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Tulane, Navy, Air Force, Colo St

OLYMPIC SPORTS - 16
- UConn, Temple, Cincy, ECU, UCF, USF, Memphis, VCU
- Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Tulane, Air Force, Colo St, BYU, Wichita St.


UConn. really wants a travel partner for all sports. UConn. wants UMass. to be added. If Big 12 does raid AAC? Old Dominion and Southern Miss. are also on their list as replacements. Houston, UCF, USF, Cincinnati and Memphis all could go to the Big 12. Might have to look at other schools to be added as a backup plan.
I do think UMass will hold tight as an Independent until AAC invites them.
07-09-2017 07:22 AM
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panite Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Redoing Realignment: Big East with Boise St. and SDSU
(07-09-2017 06:29 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  Right. This might work if Air Force and Colo St approached us.

FOOTBALL - 14
- UConn, Temple, Cincy, ECU, UCF, USF, Memphis
- Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Tulane, Navy, Air Force, Colo St

OLYMPIC SPORTS - 16
- UConn, Temple, Cincy, ECU, UCF, USF, Memphis, VCU
- Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Tulane, Air Force, Colo St, BYU, Wichita St.

BYU all sports or nothing. If they say no VCU is out for Olympic Sports. If they say yes then go after Army for FB only in the West and place Tulane in the East for FB to balance the 16 team FB league. Personally I believe 16 is too large for the AAC with to many mouths to feed even with an increase in TV revenue however it would greatly distance the AAC as a tweener conference between the other G5 and P5 conferences if this did happen.
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2017 07:28 AM by panite.)
07-09-2017 07:25 AM
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