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Could the PAC give Texas an ND type deal?
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ken d Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Could the PAC give Texas an ND type deal?
(07-08-2017 07:01 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  
(07-08-2017 06:51 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 11:42 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Just a thought here with all the talk about Texas being this coveted free agent.

In many ways the Texas brand has outgrown performance expectation. What I mean by this is there is know way the football team on the field can match the athletic ego the same way its been at Notre Dame for the past 30 years or so.

PAC could add KU/OU to 14 and Texas w/ ND type deal with a guarantee OU shows up on the PAC schedule.

Then Texas could trick out its home schedule with Notre Dame, Tennessee, Penn State a bunch of other programs who are no longer in it for the standings.

No. They'd have no interest in special treatment of Texas.

I think Texas as an independent is a product of their own ego. Outside of Texas what is the "hook" (pun intended). Notre Dame's hook is Catholics. BYU's hook is Mormans. If Baptists were rarer, that could be WF's or Baylor's national hook. Army and Navy have a national hook.

To be special as an independent I think you need something that causes people around the nation to be interested in you - a hook. I don't see that with Texas.

Some schools are independent because they have a choice. Others because they don't. Texas has a choice - and have had an even better one in the past. They may have a huge ego, but they are also smart enough to know you are right.

Texas needs to be in a conference, and one with a significant presence in their own state. Without both of those things, they will be very ordinary very fast.
07-08-2017 07:50 PM
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dunstvangeet Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Could the PAC give Texas an ND type deal?
(07-07-2017 09:36 AM)bluesox Wrote:  I'm not sure why the PAC is even considering 16 team setup given the travel 18 should be the goal. I think the money is there for the PAC but they have to build it first
18 would be an interesting setup. However, I can tell you exactly why the PAC is considering 16, instead of 14. It's called the PAC-8. The divisional lineup, you have 8 schools who have been affiliated with eachother in the same conference for about 90 years (and really playing eachother regularly before that). With a group of 16, the PAC-12 could realign into an east-west alignment, and have the strong alignment of the PAC-8 be one division of a 16-team alignment.

18 teams would be messy because the PAC-12 is ultimately done around rivalries. You basically have a conference of 6 rivalries (even though one of those rivalries is sort-of contrived). So, an 18-team alignment would mean somewhere around 9 in each of the two divisions.
07-09-2017 01:36 AM
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MplsBison Online
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Post: #43
RE: Could the PAC give Texas an ND type deal?
(07-08-2017 06:41 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Breaking with the Big 6 would not have been easy from a psychological standpoint. Even though Colorado had transformed from a plains/rockies entity to a rockies/west coast entity over the span of about 30 years doesn't mean the older alumni and political base have changed with the institution.

You have some of the same issues in the southeast particularly in the ACC. Even before expansion in 2003 some ACC schools were much more culturally southern while some had become eastern - Duke, UNC, and UVa had become very eastern from the 1970's to the early 00's. When I say eastern I mean a NYC/Boston/DC economic and political millieu. Now to someone standing in Northwestern or Syracuse, those three still appear southern because they are different from Chicago or NY and you really don't see the shift as much from the outside. Sometimes it's a change in your students, sometimes who you hire to run the University, sometimes a change in the demographics of the area, and many times a combination of both.

That's why Colorado balked for so long. That's why TAMU balked at the P10. That's why UVA and UNC will never go the B10. I think it's very difficult to exist comfortably outside your own culture if you hold a permanently inferior position.

I would suggest that to date there have been only a handful of P-5 moves where the moving school changed cultural bases - Maryland to the B10, West Virginia to the B12, and Mizzou to the SEC. In all three cases there were great push factors in addition to pull factors. WVa and Mizzou were both in a panic - WVa legitimately more so than Mizzou. Both were scared of being left in something lesser. Maryland's President and Chancellor had come to hate UNC and Duke and MD's role in the conference had diminished from Conference Leader from 1921 to the mid 1970's, to a near also-ran when it came to decision making.

The reason I know this is because I know the former UNC AD whose father was the AD at Maryland and have had the opportunity to converse with him regarding MD. You would not have seen this friction aired publicly in the ACC because that's not how the "country club" works, and only infrequently would it pop up in the Washington Post. In Raleigh, Charlotte, or Atlanta, MD's issues would be buried.

Thanks for the thoughts. You talked more about Maryland than Colorado, but I understand what you're saying.

I will disagree with you on one minor thing only ... by perhaps the early 2040's I could easily see Virginia joining against with Maryland in the Big Ten. Things change, as you well know! 04-cheers
07-09-2017 09:39 AM
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billybobby777 Online
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Post: #44
RE: Could the PAC give Texas an ND type deal?
(07-08-2017 07:01 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  
(07-08-2017 06:51 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 11:42 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Just a thought here with all the talk about Texas being this coveted free agent.

In many ways the Texas brand has outgrown performance expectation. What I mean by this is there is know way the football team on the field can match the athletic ego the same way its been at Notre Dame for the past 30 years or so.

PAC could add KU/OU to 14 and Texas w/ ND type deal with a guarantee OU shows up on the PAC schedule.

Then Texas could trick out its home schedule with Notre Dame, Tennessee, Penn State a bunch of other programs who are no longer in it for the standings.

No. They'd have no interest in special treatment of Texas.

I think Texas as an independent is a product of their own ego. Outside of Texas what is the "hook" (pun intended). Notre Dame's hook is Catholics. BYU's hook is Mormans. If Baptists were rarer, that could be WF's or Baylor's national hook. Army and Navy have a national hook.

To be special as an independent I think you need something that causes people around the nation to be interested in you - a hook. I don't see that with Texas.

Have you ever been to Texas? Texas isn't southern. Texas isn't Western. Texas is Texas. The pride in which Texans hold Texas is unlike anything I've seen in other state. The southern culture is similar but that's a dozen or so states with a shared culture of something that's unique (I won't get into the confederate history here) Texas was its own country before the civil war. The first time I ate Tex Mex as a teenager I remember the reaction of the Texans around me saying, "it's great huh"? After barfing, I weakly nodded in agreement. You could put garbage on a plate and if it's in Texas made by Texans, it's considered filet mignon. The pride Texans have for their state is unlike anything I've seen anywhere else is the United States. I hate it, but at the same time I deeply respect it. It's impossible to understand if you've never lived in Texas.
07-09-2017 04:48 PM
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lumberpack4 Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Could the PAC give Texas an ND type deal?
(07-09-2017 04:48 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(07-08-2017 07:01 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  
(07-08-2017 06:51 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 11:42 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Just a thought here with all the talk about Texas being this coveted free agent.

In many ways the Texas brand has outgrown performance expectation. What I mean by this is there is know way the football team on the field can match the athletic ego the same way its been at Notre Dame for the past 30 years or so.

PAC could add KU/OU to 14 and Texas w/ ND type deal with a guarantee OU shows up on the PAC schedule.

Then Texas could trick out its home schedule with Notre Dame, Tennessee, Penn State a bunch of other programs who are no longer in it for the standings.

No. They'd have no interest in special treatment of Texas.

I think Texas as an independent is a product of their own ego. Outside of Texas what is the "hook" (pun intended). Notre Dame's hook is Catholics. BYU's hook is Mormans. If Baptists were rarer, that could be WF's or Baylor's national hook. Army and Navy have a national hook.

To be special as an independent I think you need something that causes people around the nation to be interested in you - a hook. I don't see that with Texas.

Have you ever been to Texas? Texas isn't southern. Texas isn't Western. Texas is Texas. The pride in which Texans hold Texas is unlike anything I've seen in other state. The southern culture is similar but that's a dozen or so states with a shared culture of something that's unique (I won't get into the confederate history here) Texas was its own country before the civil war. The first time I ate Tex Mex as a teenager I remember the reaction of the Texans around me saying, "it's great huh"? After barfing, I weakly nodded in agreement. You could put garbage on a plate and if it's in Texas made by Texans, it's considered filet mignon. The pride Texans have for their state is unlike anything I've seen anywhere else is the United States. I hate it, but at the same time I deeply respect it. It's impossible to understand if you've never lived in Texas.

I've been to Texas many times. I've been to all 50 states and most of the Canadian provinces, PR, Egypt, Germany, UK, Belgium, Netherlands, Switzerland, France, Italy, Austria, Croatia, Greece, Luxembourg, and Lichtenstein (you have to really want to go to the last two to ever get there) - point being, there is nothing special about Texas outside of Texas and southside Oklahoma.

I realize and have seen first hand Texans who think they are special compared to other Americans and seem to forget that they had to bailed out militarily by the United States, but that's the nature of many Texas, a lot of hat, and no cattle.
07-09-2017 11:08 PM
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MplsBison Online
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Post: #46
RE: Could the PAC give Texas an ND type deal?
Well, Texans are good at is buying tickets to football games and watching football games on TV. And there are a fairly large number of them who do that.
07-10-2017 09:31 AM
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OrangeDude Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Could the PAC give Texas an ND type deal?
My own opinion remains that Texas itself does not want an ND type option with any conference. But if they desired one and a P5 conference was willing to accommodate them, they could be quite successful with it.

The hook, as I see it, wouldn't necessarily have to be national support (such as is the case with ND, although cases can be made for such support for Texas and a few other football Kings). The challenges are

1) creating a schedule year in and year out college football fans nationally would want to see (to get the TV contract); and

2) be an attractive enough institution to a power conference to offer them the option with some restrictions.

I think the latter is obvious, at least in terms of one P5 conference, since the ACC has already done so with ND.

In the case of the former the state of Texas with all of its recruits is an invaluable asset - something playing ND does not have. Nor would that be an asset in playing a program like let's say Alabama, if they were to go indy. And unlike the Tide but more like the Irish, the Longhorns are hardly an invincible juggernaut on the field. Which, of course, helps create the feeling of those scheduling them that not only will they draw fans to their own stadiums when they play them at home but the belief they might have a shot of actually getting a win.

But it is all moot until such time that Texas themselves shows a real interest in exploring the option.

Cheers,
Neil
(This post was last modified: 07-10-2017 10:04 AM by OrangeDude.)
07-10-2017 10:02 AM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Could the PAC give Texas an ND type deal?
Think of Penn State.

Think of how many are showing up at that town every saturday football game after what happened there.

I was traveling last week in an airport and noticed a 65 year old gentleman with white hair, white mustache....and a Penn State T-Shirt. Who in their right mind would be doing that?

We know it isnt for PSU basketball because that sucks. Its in support of that football program. He looked like he could be friends with Jerry Sandusky.

That is when you have a mega football brand, when fans love it regardless of the smell.

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07-10-2017 01:29 PM
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Post: #49
RE: Could the PAC give Texas an ND type deal?
(07-10-2017 01:29 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Think of Penn State.

Think of how many are showing up at that town every saturday football game after what happened there.

I was traveling last week in an airport and noticed a 65 year old gentleman with white hair, white mustache....and a Penn State T-Shirt. Who in their right mind would be doing that?

We know it isnt for PSU basketball because that sucks. Its in support of that football program. He looked like he could be friends with Jerry Sandusky.

That is when you have a mega football brand, when fans love it regardless of the smell.

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I definitely see where you're coming from and I agree for the most part. In truth, Penn St is a university and Penn St doesn't make decisions and choices - people do. Penn St (the university) did nothing and can't do anything. People representing Penn St made choices that harmed Penn St's reputation. I think people can be proud to be Penn St alum without supporting what Jerry Sandusky or anyone involved in the cover-up did.

Consider Nixon and Watergate. No one would say you can't support America because its leadership did something bad.

I do believe Penn St's current leadership should do what it can to distance itself from that part of its history and denounce what happened at every appropriate opportunity. However, it is important to separate the university from the people who made the decisions.
07-10-2017 02:22 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Could the PAC give Texas an ND type deal?
A watergate equivalent in football would be like the president resigning because he pocketed athletic products.

Penn State is like Trump forming an aliance with Putin on a censorship campaign and bloody crackdown on civil rights. You would really hate the government after that administration.

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07-10-2017 05:47 PM
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