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California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
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Tom in Lazybrook Online
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Post: #1
California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2017/06...l-ban.html

Keep this non-political.

Looks like the way the ban has been mooted is as follows

1) Coaches not being paid by taxpayers are exempt.
2) Does NOT cover already scheduled games
3) Does cover any future scheduled games

This could cause some chaos.

States covered under the California ban

Texas, South Dakota, Alabama, Mississippi, Oklahoma, Kentucky, North Carolina, and Tennessee. It is possible that Ohio will be added. It is possible that Idaho has some laws that could cause the AGs order to apply. That would complicate things a LOT more.

California D1 schools covered by the order.

Fresno State, San Jose State, San Diego State (MWC). California, UCLA (Pac 12). UC-Davis, UCSD, Cal Poly, UC-Irvine, Long Beach, Cal State Fullerton, Cal State Northridge (Big West). Cal State Sacramento (Big Sky).

And a potential huge problem for one school. Cal State Bakersfield (WAC).

----

If the AG order is held up, then the ramifications are pretty interesting

Pac 12 - no member institutions are covered by the ban and none are likely to be covered by it. But it does mean that any UT or Oklahoma to the Pac discussions are moot at this point. As well as any discussion of a raid by the Big XII into California (unlikely anyway)

MWC - no member institutions covered by the ban. But it means that any thoughts that UTEP might have of moving back are probably dead at this point. And any thoughts of an AAC raid on SDSU, however unlikely, aren't happening either

Big Sky and Big West, no member institutions covered by the ban.

The West Coast Conference has no public schools. Exempt.

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But Cal State - Bakersfield and the WAC have a potential problem. UT-RGV is also a WAC member. Two Texas schools also participate in the WAC as affiliate members in men's soccer

---

Interesting to see how this will play out. Or if any other states will follow California and the other states that have rules like this.

My guess is that this will be sorted out in about 5 years or so. But not before then.

Is this a huge glass of ice water on a bunch of realignment scenarios?
(This post was last modified: 07-03-2017 08:20 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
07-03-2017 08:17 PM
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Attackcoog Online
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Post: #2
RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
Im curious how thats not a religious ban. My guess is it will be short lived as it will probably have trouble once it reaches the courts. Somebody is going to challenge it. The Texas law California seems to object to is probably short lived as well for the same reason. Until then, Cali schools will have to schedule carefully. If I were a California public school----Id schedule a crap load of games right now before other states get on the list. lol....Those California schools may end just playing one another for a while the way things are going.
(This post was last modified: 07-03-2017 08:34 PM by Attackcoog.)
07-03-2017 08:28 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Online
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RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
(07-03-2017 08:28 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Im curious how thats not a religious ban. My guess is it will be short lived as it will probably have trouble once it reaches the courts. Somebody is going to challenge it. Until then, Cali schools will have to schedule carefully. Id also schedule a crap load of games now before other states get on the list.

Its not a religious ban. It simply states that California's taxpayers will not enter into contracts that will involve travel to states where certain people face discrimination. Under the AG ruling, its perfectly legal for UCLA to schedule a game at Liberty, but not legal for them to schedule a game at Rice.

I think this one holds up. Basically the alternative is to say...Alabama can mandate or allow discrimination and California must use taxpayer funds to send its own citizens there to face that discrimination. And that its taxpayer owned institutions must contract to send its citizens where they will face discrimination. Basically the argument of someone challenging the AG ruling is this, not only can Texas discriminate against its own citizens, but California would be compelled to use taxpayer funds to export its own citizens there to face that discrimination.

And I'd imagine that the Circuit Court that gets the case will be the liberal circuit out West. So give it a couple of years for the courts to go through that.

Its already in effect btw. At least for Texas.

---

We shall see. I'm sure someone will sue. In the meantime, I think that a huge bucket of ice water has been thrown on a lot of realignment scenarios for the time being. And the WAC has a potential problem.
(This post was last modified: 07-03-2017 08:46 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
07-03-2017 08:34 PM
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Attackcoog Online
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Post: #4
RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
(07-03-2017 08:34 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(07-03-2017 08:28 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Im curious how thats not a religious ban. My guess is it will be short lived as it will probably have trouble once it reaches the courts. Somebody is going to challenge it. Until then, Cali schools will have to schedule carefully. Id also schedule a crap load of games now before other states get on the list.

Its not a religious ban. It simply states that California's taxpayers will not enter into contracts that will involve travel to states where certain people face discrimination.

I think this one holds up. Basically the alternative is to say...Alabama can mandate or allow discrimination and California must use taxpayer funds to send its own citizens there to face that discrimination. And that its taxpayer owned institutions must contract to send its citizens where they will face discrimination.

And I'd imagine that the Circuit Court that gets the case will be the liberal circuit out West

Its already in effect btw. At least for Texas.

Dont know about all of them, but I think some of the objectionable laws are based on free exercise of religion. FWIW---I have a feeling the Texas law Cali has an issue with is going to get overturned by the courts. I dont see how its going to survive a challenge---which hopefully will get Texas off that ban list. Otherwise, it could definitely affect scheduling in the future.
(This post was last modified: 07-03-2017 08:43 PM by Attackcoog.)
07-03-2017 08:40 PM
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MWC Tex Offline
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Post: #5
RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
There is also a lot more states on the travel ban list. Not just Texas....soon they will only travel to Oregon and Washington
07-03-2017 08:54 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #6
RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
Idaho, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, the Dakotas, Nebraska, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Kentucky all could be put under this ban as well.

PAC 12 Arizona, Arizona State and Utah may have to find a new home.

MWC, Utah State, Wyoming and Boise State may have to find a new home.

Big Sky, Sacramento State, Cal-Davis and Cal. Poly all need to find new homes.

WAC, Utah Valley, UMKC, UTRGV will have to find a new home.

Humboldt State will be hard it as well. Since there are some slim pickings to play football on the West Coast. This could shake up some P5 conferences big time. Big 12 could grab the 3 PAC 12 schools, BYU, Cincinnati and Memphis.

PAC 12 may have to look at San Diego State, Fresno State, UNLV, UNR, New Mexico, Colorado State and Hawaii.

Cal-Davis, Cal. Poly, Sacramento State, Humboldt State, Portland State, New Mexico State and Northern Colorado and Eastern Washington as possible replacements.

WAC could backfill with Azusa Pacific, Central Washington, Western Washington, Colorado Mesa, Western Oregon and some others.

Big Sky could refill from RMAC and GNAC schools.
07-03-2017 08:54 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #7
RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
(07-03-2017 08:54 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  There is also a lot more states on the travel ban list. Not just Texas....soon they will only travel to Oregon and Washington


Hawaii, Colorado, Nevada and New Mexico are mainly blue states.
07-03-2017 08:55 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Online
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RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
(07-03-2017 08:55 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(07-03-2017 08:54 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  There is also a lot more states on the travel ban list. Not just Texas....soon they will only travel to Oregon and Washington


Hawaii, Colorado, Nevada and New Mexico are mainly blue states.

Other states might also join the several states that have these bans. NY has a ban as well.
(This post was last modified: 07-03-2017 09:01 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
07-03-2017 09:00 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Online
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RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
(07-03-2017 08:54 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Idaho, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, the Dakotas, Nebraska, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Kentucky all could be put under this ban as well.

PAC 12 Arizona, Arizona State and Utah may have to find a new home.

MWC, Utah State, Wyoming and Boise State may have to find a new home.

Big Sky, Sacramento State, Cal-Davis and Cal. Poly all need to find new homes.

WAC, Utah Valley, UMKC, UTRGV will have to find a new home.

Humboldt State will be hard it as well. Since there are some slim pickings to play football on the West Coast. This could shake up some P5 conferences big time. Big 12 could grab the 3 PAC 12 schools, BYU, Cincinnati and Memphis.

PAC 12 may have to look at San Diego State, Fresno State, UNLV, UNR, New Mexico, Colorado State and Hawaii.

Cal-Davis, Cal. Poly, Sacramento State, Humboldt State, Portland State, New Mexico State and Northern Colorado and Eastern Washington as possible replacements.

WAC could backfill with Azusa Pacific, Central Washington, Western Washington, Colorado Mesa, Western Oregon and some others.

Big Sky could refill from RMAC and GNAC schools.

Utah is oddly probably safe. Idaho probably HAS laws subject to the ban at some point. Kentucky is already on the list. Arizona is safe for now, and will probably remain safe. Remember that Arizona cannot afford to lose much of its' California convention business. This is more than football.

For right now, I don't see ANY Pac 12 state, including Utah going the Mississippi/Texas route. The MWC seems safe as well.

I think the impact of this, at least at the D1 level, is to tamp down on realignment, rather than accelerate it.
(This post was last modified: 07-03-2017 09:07 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
07-03-2017 09:04 PM
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Attackcoog Online
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Post: #10
RE: California's Travel Ban - Ramifications
(07-03-2017 09:00 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(07-03-2017 08:55 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(07-03-2017 08:54 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  There is also a lot more states on the travel ban list. Not just Texas....soon they will only travel to Oregon and Washington


Hawaii, Colorado, Nevada and New Mexico are mainly blue states.

Other states might also join the several states that have these bans. NY has a ban as well.

Other states are "counter banning". I think the whole thing will end up not being very productive for anyone.

After thinking about it, Im not so sure its going to really affect school athletics. Money is fungible. Fly to Texas on the part of the athletic budget that is donated. Use state funds for whatever you used to use donated athletic funds for. Basically, you only have to break out the cost to fly state employees----players arent employees. So, this is really just about the travel costs for the coaches and support staff. A little swapping of funds can probably fix the problem. That kind of stuff happens all the time to stay in compliance with regulations. You'll probably have to be careful to keep certain funds separate---but Im sure they have accountants for that.
(This post was last modified: 07-03-2017 09:09 PM by Attackcoog.)
07-03-2017 09:04 PM
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