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State of Ohio Looking into Banning or Limiting Athletic Subsidies
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CliftonAve Offline
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State of Ohio Looking into Banning or Limiting Athletic Subsidies
Not going to bother tOSU, but could be an issue for the rest of the schools in the state.

Quote:Plus, the budget calls on the state chancellor to investigate all higher education fees charged to students and gives him the power to block a fee he does not determine to be in the best interest of students. Universities could appeal that decision to the state Controlling Board, a bipartisan legislative spending oversight panel.

From a Dispatch article on the state higher ed budget.
06-30-2017 10:21 AM
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RE: State of Ohio Looking into Banning or Limiting Athletic Subsidies
(06-30-2017 10:21 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Not going to bother tOSU, but could be an issue for the rest of the schools in the state.

Quote:Plus, the budget calls on the state chancellor to investigate all higher education fees charged to students and gives him the power to block a fee he does not determine to be in the best interest of students. Universities could appeal that decision to the state Controlling Board, a bipartisan legislative spending oversight panel.

From a Dispatch article on the state higher ed budget.

Sounds like Ohio St. hired somebody from LSU or Alabama to keep the rest down!

Seriously, they do need to get a handle on these things. Virginia and Georgia have laws regulating the amount of the subsidy. If every state did it, it would be better for all. However, not every state is doing it.
06-30-2017 10:43 AM
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Kittonhead Offline
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RE: State of Ohio Looking into Banning or Limiting Athletic Subsidies
As long as existing student fees are all within the same range they won't block anyone.

The school to be most concerned has to be Cincinnati who has the largest student fees. Plus they are losing the Big East exit fees next year.
06-30-2017 11:08 AM
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Renandpat Offline
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RE: State of Ohio Looking into Banning or Limiting Athletic Subsidies
What the article and Governor did not detail is if any approved student referendum with a fee increase attached to is subject to be vetoed.
06-30-2017 12:44 PM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #5
RE: State of Ohio Looking into Banning or Limiting Athletic Subsidies
(06-30-2017 11:08 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  As long as existing student fees are all within the same range they won't block anyone.

The school to be most concerned has to be Cincinnati who has the largest student fees. Plus they are losing the Big East exit fees next year.

The Big East exit fees will be replaced by increased revenue from the basketball arena, which reopens next year after a huge renovation that focused on high-revenue premium seating.
06-30-2017 01:08 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #6
RE: State of Ohio Looking into Banning or Limiting Athletic Subsidies
This can help illustrate the school fund issue (2015, USAToday)

PHP Code:
School    Student Fees    School Funds        Ticket Sales    Contributions        Rights/licensing

BGSU       
$12,600,000    $307,708           $2,070,484    $2,151,989        $3,045,882
Ohio U     
$16,354,881    $2,455,201        $1,220,176    $3,048,381        $3,995,205
Kent St    
$14,418,300    $4,786,408        $891,139       $891,312           $2,625,686
Toledo     
$10,504,815    $4,762,729        $1,582,612    $3,878,467        $4,340,422
Miami U    
$16,107,965    $7,805,955        $1,234,227    $1,659,949        $3,103,311
Akron      
$0           $22,118,580        $1,068,663    $2,288,565        $3,728,121

WMU        
$0            $25,839,878        $1,545,880    $676,802           $3,889,563
EMU        
$0            $27,309,988        $488,707       $431,502           $2,914,590
CMU        
$0            $19,408,633        $709,730       $2,066,634        $3,116,914

Ball St    
$11,574,700    $5,602,835        $609,292       $650,667           $2,548,971
NIU        
$10,117,581    $7,721,087        $1,296,597    $1,807,090        $3,965,989
Buffalo    
$8,433,752    $15,919,426        $1,101,014    $1,058,460        $3,894,030

YSU        
$0            $10,734,826        $486,854       $1,000,100        $1,436,862
Wright     
$0            $8,388,880        $310,216       $687,523           $932,028
Cincy      
$0            $23,182,129        $5,670,248    $4,717,273        $16,259,323

Oakland    
$0            $11,441,310        $148,339       $518,107           $906,507

UConn      
$10,202,710    $17,867,971        $9,925,295    $6,742,838        $25,495,536
Houston    
$7,260,060     $18,733,954        $4,283,816    $6,408,388        $7,225,130
Memphis    
$7,603,577     $10,584,325        $7,401,424    $9,072,203        $7,265,646
UCF        
$21,739,649    $3,032,455        $4,381,701    $9,733,191        $8,731,487

Iowa       
$650,000       $0                 $26,642,165    $25,345,910        $45,114,329
Iowa St    
$2,044,400     $0                 $14,155,561    $21,012,134        $34,126,584
Cal        
$1,444,374     $3,555,626        $10,955,853    $22,572,994        $35,894,932 

Cincinnati, Akron, Youngstown State, and Wright State lack student fees which balloon the institutional transfers. Akron has solid donations. Wright State gets excellent Basketball attendance, but they fail to get any revenue form it nor any donations - this makes no sense to me it's not a ghetto (must be an entitlement mentality). BGSU blows me away. Weak student and hardly any fan support, but fees and alumni donations make it financially sound.

Looking at Cincy and UConn and comparing with the other AAC schools, you can see the impending financial crisis for those two schools as the last of the Big East exit fees are distributed, when you compare to the rights values of Houston, Memphis and UCF who didn;t get that money.

The Michigan situation is even worse than Ohio. EMU has no business being in D-I. CMU and WMU have support, but no student fees. Oakland is another anemic school like Wright State, where you wonder why no support despite good crowds.


My Conclusion: Cincy, Akron, YSU, and Wright St must have student fees for IA to reduce the tax payer transfers. Wright needs to figure out how to collect money and get donations or drop out of D-I. The others just need to trim a little, or find a bit more income to reduce transfers $1-2m range. EMU is really sick, and Michigan needs to review it's policy as well
(This post was last modified: 06-30-2017 09:47 PM by Stugray2.)
06-30-2017 04:38 PM
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goofus Offline
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Post: #7
RE: State of Ohio Looking into Banning or Limiting Athletic Subsidies
The state of Iowa has a rule like that.

Did not really affect University of Iowa but it doeas affect schools like Northen Iowa.
06-30-2017 05:13 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #8
RE: State of Ohio Looking into Banning or Limiting Athletic Subsidies
You'd have to look at the student fees in question. Those passed by the student body and directly pledged to bond payments probably cant be eliminated. Those that are just student fees used for the general use of the athletic department could probably be eliminated.
06-30-2017 07:07 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #9
RE: State of Ohio Looking into Banning or Limiting Athletic Subsidies
(06-30-2017 04:38 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  This can help illustrate the school fund issue (2015, USAToday)

PHP Code:
School    Student Fees    School Funds        Ticket Sales    Contributions        Rights/licensing

BGSU       
$12,600,000    $307,708           $2,070,484    $2,151,989        $3,045,882
Ohio U     
$16,354,881    $2,455,201        $1,220,176    $3,048,381        $3,995,205
Kent St    
$14,418,300    $4,786,408        $891,139       $891,312           $2,625,686
Toledo     
$10,504,815    $4,762,729        $1,582,612    $3,878,467        $4,340,422
Miami U    
$16,107,965    $7,805,955        $1,234,227    $1,659,949        $3,103,311
Akron      
$0           $22,118,580        $1,068,663    $2,288,565        $3,728,121

WMU        
$0            $25,839,878        $1,545,880    $676,802           $3,889,563
EMU        
$0            $27,309,988        $488,707       $431,502           $2,914,590
CMU        
$0            $19,408,633        $709,730       $2,066,634        $3,116,914

Ball St    
$11,574,700    $5,602,835        $609,292       $650,667           $2,548,971
NIU        
$10,117,581    $7,721,087        $1,296,597    $1,807,090        $3,965,989
Buffalo    
$8,433,752    $15,919,426        $1,101,014    $1,058,460        $3,894,030

YSU        
$0            $10,734,826        $486,854       $1,000,100        $1,436,862
Wright     
$0            $8,388,880        $310,216       $687,523           $932,028
Cincy      
$0            $23,182,129        $5,670,248    $4,717,273        $16,259,323

Oakland    
$0            $11,441,310        $148,339       $518,107           $906,507

UConn      
$10,202,710    $17,867,971        $9,925,295    $6,742,838        $25,495,536
Houston    
$7,260,060     $18,733,954        $4,283,816    $6,408,388        $7,225,130
Memphis    
$7,603,577     $10,584,325        $7,401,424    $9,072,203        $7,265,646
UCF        
$21,739,649    $3,032,455        $4,381,701    $9,733,191        $8,731,487

Iowa       
$650,000       $0                 $26,642,165    $25,345,910        $45,114,329
Iowa St    
$2,044,400     $0                 $14,155,561    $21,012,134        $34,126,584
Cal        
$1,444,374     $3,555,626        $10,955,853    $22,572,994        $35,894,932 

Cincinnati, Akron, Youngstown State, and Wright State lack student fees which balloon the institutional transfers. Akron has solid donations. Wright State gets excellent Basketball attendance, but they fail to get any revenue form it nor any donations - this makes no sense to me it's not a ghetto (must be an entitlement mentality). BGSU blows me away. Weak student and hardly any fan support, but fees and alumni donations make it financially sound.

Looking at Cincy and UConn and comparing with the other AAC schools, you can see the impending financial crisis for those two schools as the last of the Big East exit fees are distributed, when you compare to the rights values of Houston, Memphis and UCF who didn;t get that money.

The Michigan situation is even worse than Ohio. EMU has no business being in D-I. CMU and WMU have support, but no student fees. Oakland is another anemic school like Wright State, where you wonder why no support despite good crowds.


My Conclusion: Cincy, Akron, YSU, and Wright St must have student fees for IA to reduce the tax payer transfers. Wright needs to figure out how to collect money and get donations or drop out of D-I. The others just need to trim a little, or find a bit more income to reduce transfers $1-2m range. EMU is really sick, and Michigan needs to revue it's policy as well

When student fees + "school funds" dwarf ticket sales + contributions (earmarked by donor to athletics), you are running an athletic department at the expense of academics, it's far bigger than the fan base support justifies it being. Those numbers for some of the schools are really sad, and yes, I know, if USF was on the list, we'd look sad too.
(This post was last modified: 06-30-2017 07:56 PM by quo vadis.)
06-30-2017 07:54 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #10
RE: State of Ohio Looking into Banning or Limiting Athletic Subsidies
(06-30-2017 07:07 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  You'd have to look at the student fees in question. Those passed by the student body and directly pledged to bond payments probably cant be eliminated. Those that are just student fees used for the general use of the athletic department could probably be eliminated.

They could be, so long as the university found another funding source to pay off the bonds.
06-30-2017 07:58 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #11
RE: State of Ohio Looking into Banning or Limiting Athletic Subsidies
(06-30-2017 07:54 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  When student fees + "school funds" dwarf ticket sales + contributions (earmarked by donor to athletics), you are running an athletic department at the expense of academics, it's far bigger than the fan base support justifies it being. Those numbers for some of the schools are really sad, and yes, I know, if USF was on the list, we'd look sad too.

If they are involuntary fees.

The argument I hate most is the one made by schools like EMU that say "but $400K in donations would be lost" to justify $27M in tax payer money (or student tuition which translates into either student loan debt or state tax money transfer). It's a classic case of spending OPM.

As P.J. O'Rourke put it, if I'm spending other people's money on myself I'll buy a Lamborghini. If I'm spending other people's money for you I'll buy a Yugo, and if I'm spending my own money on myself I'll by a Toyota Camry.
06-30-2017 08:03 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #12
RE: State of Ohio Looking into Banning or Limiting Athletic Subsidies
(06-30-2017 08:03 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(06-30-2017 07:54 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  When student fees + "school funds" dwarf ticket sales + contributions (earmarked by donor to athletics), you are running an athletic department at the expense of academics, it's far bigger than the fan base support justifies it being. Those numbers for some of the schools are really sad, and yes, I know, if USF was on the list, we'd look sad too.

If they are involuntary fees.

IMO, they are sad even if the fees are 'voluntary'. For one thing, even with a vote, many students are forced to pay who don't want to. E.g., let's say that back in 2009, the students voted to pay an athletic fee. Maybe the vote was 60% to 40%, so right off the bat, 40% of students are being forced to pay a fee they don't want to pay. To be truly voluntary, the student should be free to volunteer to pay it if he/she wants, but not be compelled to by the vote of others.

Furthermore, now it's 2017, eight years later, and no vote has ever been held since, so who knows if the current students want it? To be more democratic, the fee should automatically be up for a renewal vote every three years or so, but that doesn't happen. The fee takes on a life of its own, most students may not be even aware of it, it's just rolled in with all the other fees they pay without really knowing why. For another, oftentimes these votes aren't student grassroots efforts, they are promulgated by egoistic administrators, the real driving force behind them, they paint a rosy picture to students about how great the school will be if it has Big Time Football or somesuch, and then nobody is held accountable when that doesn't happen.
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2017 04:13 AM by quo vadis.)
06-30-2017 08:11 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #13
RE: State of Ohio Looking into Banning or Limiting Athletic Subsidies
(06-30-2017 07:58 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-30-2017 07:07 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  You'd have to look at the student fees in question. Those passed by the student body and directly pledged to bond payments probably cant be eliminated. Those that are just student fees used for the general use of the athletic department could probably be eliminated.

They could be, so long as the university found another funding source to pay off the bonds.

Of course. BUT-----if they had the money to do that the state wouldnt be budget cutting.
(This post was last modified: 06-30-2017 08:15 PM by Attackcoog.)
06-30-2017 08:14 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #14
RE: State of Ohio Looking into Banning or Limiting Athletic Subsidies
Cherry picking student fees + school funds for a few institutions....

Connecticut 28.1 mil
Eastern Michigan 27.8 mil
Houston 26.0 mil

Miami 23.9 mil
Cincinnati 23.2 mil
Bowling Green 12.9 mil

Schools that are over 25 million are ultra high subsidy.

UConn is a state flagship school and Houston has a big enrollment so per student 26 million isn't too bad.

EMU has an operating budget of $307.9 million for this year. Over 9% of their budget is institutional support going to athletics, the highest in FBS.

Miami has a 23.9 million subsidy on a $715 million dollar budget. Only 3.3% of their budget is going to athletic subsidy. They could move the subsidy to 50 million and still be proportionally more thrifty than EMU.

Cincinnati has a 23.2 million subsidy on a 1.26 billion dollar budget 1.8%. To get to the 9% of EMU they'd have to be subsidizing to the tune of 139 million a year.

Bowling Green has a 12.9 million subsidy on a $288 million dollar budget for a 4.4% percent subsidy. BG has the smallest budget in the MAC but with the smallest athletic budget is still in line percentage wise with the conference. They are known to pay among the least for FB and BB coaches in the MAC.
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2017 02:54 AM by Kittonhead.)
07-01-2017 02:52 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #15
RE: State of Ohio Looking into Banning or Limiting Athletic Subsidies
(07-01-2017 02:52 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Cherry picking student fees + school funds for a few institutions....

Connecticut 28.1 mil
Eastern Michigan 27.8 mil
Houston 26.0 mil

Miami 23.9 mil
Cincinnati 23.2 mil
Bowling Green 12.9 mil

Schools that are over 25 million are ultra high subsidy.

UConn is a state flagship school and Houston has a big enrollment so per student 26 million isn't too bad.

EMU has an operating budget of $307.9 million for this year. Over 9% of their budget is institutional support going to athletics, the highest in FBS.

Miami has a 23.9 million subsidy on a $715 million dollar budget. Only 3.3% of their budget is going to athletic subsidy. They could move the subsidy to 50 million and still be proportionally more thrifty than EMU.

Cincinnati has a 23.2 million subsidy on a 1.26 billion dollar budget 1.8%. To get to the 9% of EMU they'd have to be subsidizing to the tune of 139 million a year.

Bowling Green has a 12.9 million subsidy on a $288 million dollar budget for a 4.4% percent subsidy. BG has the smallest budget in the MAC but with the smallest athletic budget is still in line percentage wise with the conference. They are known to pay among the least for FB and BB coaches in the MAC.

These schools are all Strivers, Chasing the Dream, they've got a mission for university improvement that is tied to achieving Big Time athletics, as defined by P5 membership, and the sad fact is nine out of ten will never get there. 07-coffee3
07-01-2017 04:15 AM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #16
RE: State of Ohio Looking into Banning or Limiting Athletic Subsidies
Bowling Green and EMU know they have no chance at a P5.

What they are concerned about is investing enough to compete and keep MAC membership which for them is the most economical Division 1 arrangement. Both have discussed moving down before but decided against it.
07-01-2017 08:16 AM
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Post: #17
RE: State of Ohio Looking into Banning or Limiting Athletic Subsidies
So fine then -- quo, Stu, and other naysayers.

Let me just bypass the entire issue brought up, and solve the whole thing for you, in one nice, neat swoop: get rid of all the student fees ............ and increase tuition by that much money.

Done 07-coffee3
07-01-2017 04:27 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: State of Ohio Looking into Banning or Limiting Athletic Subsidies
(07-01-2017 04:27 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  So fine then -- quo, Stu, and other naysayers.

Let me just bypass the entire issue brought up, and solve the whole thing for you, in one nice, neat swoop: get rid of all the student fees ............ and increase tuition by that much money.

Done 07-coffee3

Sure, as long as that extra tuition goes towards what the term "tuition" means - academic expenses such as classrooms, scholarships, laboratories, libraries, computers, tutoring, professors, etc. 07-coffee3
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2017 04:31 PM by quo vadis.)
07-01-2017 04:30 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #19
RE: State of Ohio Looking into Banning or Limiting Athletic Subsidies
No one may say what any university is allowed to spend its tuition on ... that is unrestricted money.

Nor may anyone tell a university that it isn't allowed to charge X tuition.


Tuition, is the lever of levers within academia, which is and will be completely institution controlled. Because -- it's a market thing. Schools can't excessively raise tuition, due to the fierce competition between schools for students.
07-01-2017 05:11 PM
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Post: #20
RE: State of Ohio Looking into Banning or Limiting Athletic Subsidies
(07-01-2017 05:11 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  No one may say what any university is allowed to spend its tuition on ... that is unrestricted money.

Nor may anyone tell a university that it isn't allowed to charge X tuition.


Tuition, is the lever of levers within academia, which is and will be completely institution controlled. Because -- it's a market thing. Schools can't excessively raise tuition, due to the fierce competition between schools for students.

Actually, for a STATE (public) University, there are State boards and commissions that actually regulate tuitions (and any tuition increases) and how that money is spent.

And ALL accredited Colleges and Universities have to meet accounting standards by their accrediting agencies as to how they collect and spend money. You can actually lose your accreditation FASTER because you misspend money than over academic issues.

So, you're full of crap on this one.
07-01-2017 05:19 PM
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