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Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
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#41 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
(06-30-2017 08:53 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(06-29-2017 03:31 PM)#41 Wrote:  
(06-29-2017 03:27 PM)Cat_Litter Wrote:  
(06-29-2017 03:10 PM)QSECOFR Wrote:  
(06-29-2017 03:08 PM)Recluse1 Wrote:  As a whole, the lack of oversight in how this money is spent is frightening, rising tuition costs need to be addressed. As unpopular as such an idea would be. I think fairness needs to be put into place, but whenever a heavy handed approach is used by states or the federal government toward anything, it just seems like things get worse.

Tuition rates having been climbing very fast at ALL schools because of the student loan program which now carries more debt than all U.S. household credit card debt.

Get rid of the student loan program and tuition will drop like a rock.

How so? How is tuition based on outstanding loan balances when the loans are made by banks, not the university. Just curious.

Universities have no incentive to compete on price because every student has unlimited borrowing power (thanks to the nondischargability of student loan debt in bankruptcy). They can charge whatever they want and expect the student to borrow more in order to pay, and the banks are happy to give more money because the loans are virtually risk-free for them.

If you ended student loans, suddenly only a very small part of society would be able to afford college. Universities would have to make their product more affordable or face a shortage of students.

There is NOT an unlimited amout of student loans that an undergraduate can take out every year. There is, and always has been, a cap, and that cap has roughly increased at the rate of inflation since the 1960s. A student does not have this huge pool of student loan money available that tuition is rising to sop up. The maximum loan amount has increased at, or sometimes below, the rate of inflation, yet tuition increases have gone up at far above the rate of inflation. Clearly other factors are at work here.

The only Ohio school that I could find historical tuition data for was OU. According to that chart, in the late 60's, you could pay full in-state tuition to OU with only 50% of the annual limit. Today, the max student loan covers less than half of OU's in-state tuition. Clearly student loans are not driving the rapid rise in inflation. You need to look at other factors like administrative bloat and athletic subsidies (often 10% of tuition at many schools) and decreased state support that needs to be made up with tuition dollars.

Now, if you want to talk about the total amount of loans that go out every year, yes it has increased by a large amount. That's because more people are going to college and in particular that increase is being driven by huge increases in community college and for-profit college enrollment.

Are you talking specifically about federal student loans? Because the distinction between public and private borrowing is completely irrelevant so long as Uncle Sam prevents you from going to court and declaring Chapter 7 to discharge student loan debt. A private loan for education is as good as government-guaranteed so long as lenders have no fear of the debt being discharged.

You go to a private lender that offers student loans, they're more than happy to let you borrow and borrow some more to pay for schooling because it's the absolute safest line-item on their ledgers.
 
06-30-2017 03:04 PM
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Bcatbog Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
(06-29-2017 02:12 PM)#41 Wrote:  As much as I'm a sports fan, this would be a good thing.

It's immoral to force students there to learn and get an education to subsidize athletics with so-called "activity fees" -- especially when most of them are borrowing into massive debt just to attend.

Students have a free choice in which school they attend. If they do not believe college athletics adds to the college experience - they do not have to attend a school that does. IMO UC athletics were a huge part of my college experience. Here in Cleveland Cleveland State is a hollow shell of UC offers our student body.

If someone does not like it - go somewhere else. Oh how I hate the whining.
 
06-30-2017 03:37 PM
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bearcatmill Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
(06-30-2017 03:37 PM)Bcatbog Wrote:  
(06-29-2017 02:12 PM)#41 Wrote:  As much as I'm a sports fan, this would be a good thing.

It's immoral to force students there to learn and get an education to subsidize athletics with so-called "activity fees" -- especially when most of them are borrowing into massive debt just to attend.

Students have a free choice in which school they attend. If they do not believe college athletics adds to the college experience - they do not have to attend a school that does. IMO UC athletics were a huge part of my college experience. Here in Cleveland Cleveland State is a hollow shell of UC offers our student body.

If someone does not like it - go somewhere else. Oh how I hate the whining.

Unfortunately, we live in a whining society.

Regarding the original post. I am not sure how morality plays into charging someone an activity fee. The fee is not even forced upon a prospective student. Every prospective student has the ability to perform their due diligence regarding cost, prior to making their decision. If said University is too costly there are plenty of other schools out there to choose from. Also, isn't the activity fee general in nature? I thought it covered attendance cost for athletic contests as well as campus activity / facility usage as well, i.e. rec center.
 
06-30-2017 04:51 PM
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Recluse1 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
Quote:Students have a free choice in which school they attend.


Kind of like schools have a free choice in what administrators they choose to overpay, infrastructure they choose to build(a lot of it entirely unnecessary), athletic facilities/faculties/programs they could probably go without, speakers for events they don't really need to host, student clubs and associations that are more politicized and ideologically brainwashed than the average TV viewer, expanded housing for more students and cash than they ever imagined, bike paths and golf carts for a campus security apparatus to keep track of said students etc.

While we're at it, every student has the free choice to become president and save the planet! And if you actually believe that, please remove yourself from the gene pool. If we go without examining the burdens of accomplishing things, we're all free to do whatever!!! But life doesn't work that way. We don't live in an ideal world, we don't control what happens to us. There were hundreds of thousands of people who died in the Indonesian Tsunami in the early 2000's, they didn't choose that. There were people who probably jumped from the World Trade center to escape the flame, I don't really consider that a "choice". More of an impulse.
There is free will, but our will is weighed against a litany of things. We don't have free choice, that's odious at best and completely sadistic at worst. Students are limited by a number of factors. We all are.
 
(This post was last modified: 06-30-2017 06:00 PM by Recluse1.)
06-30-2017 05:56 PM
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Floridaguy Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
(06-29-2017 12:11 PM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  From a Dispatch article on the state higher ed budget.

Quote:Plus, the budget calls on the state chancellor to investigate all higher education fees charged to students and gives him the power to block a fee he does not determine to be in the best interest of students. Universities could appeal that decision to the state Controlling Board, a bipartisan legislative spending oversight panel.

The University experience calls for a number of expenses that are part of the education cost. Security, Janitoral, health support, athletic activities, intermural, band, parking services etc. seems to me you need the complete package otherwise just do online
 
07-01-2017 07:26 AM
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rath v2.0 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
This is a relatively new phenomenon that has gotten beaten to death over the last 20 years. Used to be you paid a few bucks a term for some innocuous line item. Now they are often spending $1000 or more a year. Schools saw this as an easy way to raise tuition dollars without going through the state statute red tape and a way to earmark dollars for athletics to fund programs they can't keep afloat.

It also gives a less than altruistic reason to keep increasing enrollment. Add 1,000 kids at those numbers and you show an additional $1,000,000 in athletics revenue.

It's a little greasy but the entire industry is doing it.
 
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2017 08:08 AM by rath v2.0.)
07-01-2017 08:08 AM
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KCat Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
Student Loans are out of control.. I know a student taking courses in
England and she used her student loan money to fly back and forth to the US to visit her boy friend...
Another taking nursing courses ended up at the end of the year with a $4500 surplus... She had the choice to return the money or spend it,, she spent it...

As far as UC goes,,, they must be doing something right and at the right cost,, because enrollment is at an all time high.....
 
07-01-2017 12:22 PM
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Bcatbog Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
(06-30-2017 04:51 PM)bearcatmill Wrote:  
(06-30-2017 03:37 PM)Bcatbog Wrote:  
(06-29-2017 02:12 PM)#41 Wrote:  As much as I'm a sports fan, this would be a good thing.

It's immoral to force students there to learn and get an education to subsidize athletics with so-called "activity fees" -- especially when most of them are borrowing into massive debt just to attend.

Students have a free choice in which school they attend. If they do not believe college athletics adds to the college experience - they do not have to attend a school that does. IMO UC athletics were a huge part of my college experience. Here in Cleveland Cleveland State is a hollow shell of UC offers our student body.

If someone does not like it - go somewhere else. Oh how I hate the whining.

Unfortunately, we live in a whining society.

Regarding the original post. I am not sure how morality plays into charging someone an activity fee. The fee is not even forced upon a prospective student. Every prospective student has the ability to perform their due diligence regarding cost, prior to making their decision. If said University is too costly there are plenty of other schools out there to choose from. Also, isn't the activity fee general in nature? I thought it covered attendance cost for athletic contests as well as campus activity / facility usage as well, i.e. rec center.

(07-01-2017 07:26 AM)Floridaguy Wrote:  
(06-29-2017 12:11 PM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  From a Dispatch article on the state higher ed budget.

Quote:Plus, the budget calls on the state chancellor to investigate all higher education fees charged to students and gives him the power to block a fee he does not determine to be in the best interest of students. Universities could appeal that decision to the state Controlling Board, a bipartisan legislative spending oversight panel.

The University experience calls for a number of expenses that are part of the education cost. Security, Janitoral, health support, athletic activities, intermural, band, parking services etc. seems to me you need the complete package otherwise just do online

(07-01-2017 12:22 PM)KCat Wrote:  Student Loans are out of control.. I know a student taking courses in
England and she used her student loan money to fly back and forth to the US to visit her boy friend...
Another taking nursing courses ended up at the end of the year with a $4500 surplus... She had the choice to return the money or spend it,, she spent it...

As far as UC goes,,, they must be doing something right and at the right cost,, because enrollment is at an all time high.....

"
As far as UC goes,,, they must be doing something right and at the right cost,, because enrollment is at an all time high....."

Amen. College athletics are an easy target for those who do not like Americana. If one wants a sterile college experience they can do it on line. This is simply another example of how fractured our society has become.
 
07-01-2017 05:36 PM
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doss2 Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
I repeat the answer is require schools to commit a certain % of the endowment to student loans. You will see loans become more repayable.

Borrowing $200,000 to get a foo foo degree like women's studies, black studies, French lit, etc. qualifies you to say "Expresso?"
 
07-01-2017 06:11 PM
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CliftonAve Offline
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RE: Could the State Move to Ban or Limit Athletic Subsidies
Per Kate Murphy and the Enquirer applications are down and fewer foreign students have indicating they will be coming in the fall.... They blame it all on Trump.
 
(This post was last modified: 07-02-2017 07:34 AM by CliftonAve.)
07-02-2017 07:33 AM
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