Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Thread Closed 
So who goes to the Summit?
Author Message
SDHornet Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 984
Joined: Jan 2017
Reputation: 28
I Root For: Sac State
Location:
Post: #401
RE: So who goes to the Summit?
I actually think shedding Chi State helps with the WAC's perceived image problem...addition by subtraction if you will. WAC should in-turn woo ORU because why not?
07-16-2017 05:56 PM
Find all posts by this user
MissouriStateBears Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,625
Joined: Jul 2005
Reputation: 88
I Root For: Missouri State
Location:
Post: #402
RE: So who goes to the Summit?
(07-16-2017 12:50 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  Reading the Argus Leader story, it sounds like Augustana would rather stay a big fish in a small pond than move up to D-I.

Or it sounds like a school that knows where its right place is.
07-16-2017 06:37 PM
Find all posts by this user
AZcats Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,826
Joined: Dec 2014
Reputation: 137
I Root For: stAte, af, zona
Location: Pike's Peak
Post: #403
RE: So who goes to the Summit?
(07-16-2017 01:09 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 06:13 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 03:09 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Would WAC and Big Sky could do something that could benefit both conferences? WAC could sponsor football again, but this have to do with the help from the Big Sky including some D2 programs.

Cal-Davis WAC affiliate
Cal. Poly WAC Affiliate
Sacramento State WAC or full member
Humboldt State D2 call up for the WAC
Azusa Pacific D2 to the WAC.
Southern Utah WAC affiliate ot full member.
Dixie State full WAC member.
Northern Arizona full WAC member.
West Texas A&M WAC
Colorado State-Pueblo WAC
Western Washington WAC

Central WAshington Big Sky
Western Oregon Big Sky
Simon Fraser Big Sky
Colorado Mesa Big Sky

They all would save money from all three conference stand point. Let UMKC and Chicago State go.

WAC's pairings.
Seattle/Western Washington
Humboldt State/Bakersfield State
California Baptist/Azusa Pacific
Northern Arizona/Grand Canyon U.
NW Nazarene/Utah Valley
New Mexico State/Colorado State-Pueblo
Southern Utah/Dixie State
UTRGV/West Texas A&M

The two Texas schools could wind up leaving for FBS in the future.

Big Sky Pairings;
Portland State/Western Oregon
Simon Fraser/British Columbia in the future.
Central Washington/Eastern Washington
Weber State/Colorado Mesa
Idaho/Idaho State
Montana/Montana State
Northern Colorado They could go to the Summit in the future.

Big Sky and WAC can have protected games like with Sacramento State and Northern Arizona. They could easily schedule 9 to 10 games between the two conference a year and a 11th against an FBS opponent. The issue is that FBS may go away from not playing FCS schools anymore, and it could hurt these western and central plains teams even more.

I could see in the future that football playing members could formed a new all football conference from these hybrid conferences so that they could save money on traveling. It will have to be an overhaul of the current NCAA D1 rules.


Do you stay up all night coming up with this stuff? A lot of these schools are barely staying above water in D2. This will never happen, why would the Big Sky water itself down?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I posted links a few months ago about these D2 schools getting money for upgrades on their facilities.

Central Washington and Dixie State have done or are doing expansions to their football stadiums.
The other schools are also upgrading their facilities and adding sports.

As it is, there are a lack of football schools on the west coast. The most are in D3 which are mostly privates. As it is, both MWC and Big Sky Conference do have a lack of options just like the PAC 12 on who to expand with.

Could another reason schools are getting money for facility upgrades be that those facilities are old? Dixie State is building an east grandstand where none currently exist to improve the ability to host community events. The upgrades at Central Washington include building restrooms, they've been using port-a-potties. It's been said before, not everything is about D1.
07-16-2017 06:44 PM
Find all posts by this user
DavidSt Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 23,011
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 732
I Root For: ATU, P7
Location:
Post: #404
RE: So who goes to the Summit?
(07-16-2017 04:46 PM)billings Wrote:  
(07-16-2017 01:13 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  
(07-16-2017 01:09 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 06:13 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 03:09 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Would WAC and Big Sky could do something that could benefit both conferences? WAC could sponsor football again, but this have to do with the help from the Big Sky including some D2 programs.

Cal-Davis WAC affiliate
Cal. Poly WAC Affiliate
Sacramento State WAC or full member
Humboldt State D2 call up for the WAC
Azusa Pacific D2 to the WAC.
Southern Utah WAC affiliate ot full member.
Dixie State full WAC member.
Northern Arizona full WAC member.
West Texas A&M WAC
Colorado State-Pueblo WAC
Western Washington WAC

Central WAshington Big Sky
Western Oregon Big Sky
Simon Fraser Big Sky
Colorado Mesa Big Sky

They all would save money from all three conference stand point. Let UMKC and Chicago State go.

WAC's pairings.
Seattle/Western Washington
Humboldt State/Bakersfield State
California Baptist/Azusa Pacific
Northern Arizona/Grand Canyon U.
NW Nazarene/Utah Valley
New Mexico State/Colorado State-Pueblo
Southern Utah/Dixie State
UTRGV/West Texas A&M

The two Texas schools could wind up leaving for FBS in the future.

Big Sky Pairings;
Portland State/Western Oregon
Simon Fraser/British Columbia in the future.
Central Washington/Eastern Washington
Weber State/Colorado Mesa
Idaho/Idaho State
Montana/Montana State
Northern Colorado They could go to the Summit in the future.

Big Sky and WAC can have protected games like with Sacramento State and Northern Arizona. They could easily schedule 9 to 10 games between the two conference a year and a 11th against an FBS opponent. The issue is that FBS may go away from not playing FCS schools anymore, and it could hurt these western and central plains teams even more.

I could see in the future that football playing members could formed a new all football conference from these hybrid conferences so that they could save money on traveling. It will have to be an overhaul of the current NCAA D1 rules.


Do you stay up all night coming up with this stuff? A lot of these schools are barely staying above water in D2. This will never happen, why would the Big Sky water itself down?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I posted links a few months ago about these D2 schools getting money for upgrades on their facilities.

Central Washington and Dixie State have done or are doing expansions to their football stadiums.
The other schools are also upgrading their facilities and adding sports.

As it is, there are a lack of football schools on the west coast. The most are in D3 which are mostly privates. As it is, both MWC and Big Sky Conference do have a lack of options just like the PAC 12 on who to expand with.
There is a reason that there aren't as many football schools in the West. It's because not as many people are into (college) football out there.

Uhh just maybe it is because there are a lot fewer people in the west with larger distances between metro centers. That means fewer colleges and more expense in running athletic programs for travel, etc. Thus fewer programs playing football


Eastern Washington fans seemed to be into their football. When they were on ESPN for their playoff games? The stands were packed. They even travel to Texas for the championship games. I think Central Washington could also picked up a following as well if they went D1. The football is the only thing going for these cities without any competitors.
07-16-2017 07:55 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
NoDak Offline
Jersey Retired
Jersey Retired

Posts: 6,958
Joined: Oct 2005
Reputation: 105
I Root For: UND
Location:
Post: #405
RE: So who goes to the Summit?
(07-16-2017 07:55 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(07-16-2017 04:46 PM)billings Wrote:  
(07-16-2017 01:13 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  
(07-16-2017 01:09 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 06:13 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  Do you stay up all night coming up with this stuff? A lot of these schools are barely staying above water in D2. This will never happen, why would the Big Sky water itself down?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I posted links a few months ago about these D2 schools getting money for upgrades on their facilities.

Central Washington and Dixie State have done or are doing expansions to their football stadiums.
The other schools are also upgrading their facilities and adding sports.

As it is, there are a lack of football schools on the west coast. The most are in D3 which are mostly privates. As it is, both MWC and Big Sky Conference do have a lack of options just like the PAC 12 on who to expand with.
There is a reason that there aren't as many football schools in the West. It's because not as many people are into (college) football out there.

Uhh just maybe it is because there are a lot fewer people in the west with larger distances between metro centers. That means fewer colleges and more expense in running athletic programs for travel, etc. Thus fewer programs playing football


Eastern Washington fans seemed to be into their football. When they were on ESPN for their playoff games? The stands were packed. They even travel to Texas for the championship games. I think Central Washington could also picked up a following as well if they went D1. The football is the only thing going for these cities without any competitors.

Apparently, there is only a teenie bit of difference between metro Spokane and metro Ellensburg.
(This post was last modified: 07-16-2017 08:15 PM by NoDak.)
07-16-2017 08:13 PM
Find all posts by this user
NoQuestion Offline
Bench Warmer
*

Posts: 157
Joined: Apr 2014
Reputation: 2
I Root For: MSU
Location:
Post: #406
RE: So who goes to the Summit?
I knew that Sam montage on GOT tonight reminded me of something.
07-16-2017 10:42 PM
Find all posts by this user
BruceMcF Online
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 13,104
Joined: Jan 2013
Reputation: 760
I Root For: Reds/Buckeyes/.
Location:
Post: #407
RE: So who goes to the Summit?
(07-16-2017 08:13 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Apparently, there is only a teenie bit of difference between metro Spokane and metro Ellensburg.
Really, isn't that the case? The Spokane urbanized area population is around 486,000 and the population of all of Kittas County, Washington is almost 45,000, so they are basically neck and neck as far as the population race goes.
07-16-2017 11:10 PM
Find all posts by this user
AZcats Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,826
Joined: Dec 2014
Reputation: 137
I Root For: stAte, af, zona
Location: Pike's Peak
Post: #408
RE: So who goes to the Summit?
(07-16-2017 07:55 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Eastern Washington fans seemed to be into their football. When they were on ESPN for their playoff games? The stands were packed. They even travel to Texas for the championship games. I think Central Washington could also picked up a following as well if they went D1. The football is the only thing going for these cities without any competitors.

Ok, David:

Central Washington has 13 sports (6m/7w) on a budget of $6.5 million. The budget is inflated because they make 3 trips to Alaska each year. Football plays in a 4,000 seat stadium with no permanent restrooms. Men's basketball averages 1,100 attendance. About 60 scholarships are awarded in the entire athletic department with less than 30 for football.

For a D1 move CWU would need: major facility improvements, more than double football scholarships and add scholarships across all sports to D1 levels, add sports, and double the athletic budget.

Please, show us a real action plan that fills those needs in a town of 18,000 people and a county of under 45,000 people. CWU has a lot of competitors; Pullman is 180 miles and Seattle is only 108 miles from campus.
07-16-2017 11:27 PM
Find all posts by this user
Stugray2 Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 7,175
Joined: Jan 2017
Reputation: 679
I Root For: tOSU SJSU Stan'
Location: South Bay Area CA
Post: #409
RE: So who goes to the Summit?
(07-16-2017 11:10 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(07-16-2017 08:13 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Apparently, there is only a teenie bit of difference between metro Spokane and metro Ellensburg.
Really, isn't that the case? The Spokane urbanized area population is around 486,000 and the population of all of Kittas County, Washington is almost 45,000, so they are basically neck and neck as far as the population race goes.

The Spokane-Coeur d'Alene metro is 701, 946
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spokane-Co...tical_Area
(This post was last modified: 07-16-2017 11:30 PM by Stugray2.)
07-16-2017 11:29 PM
Find all posts by this user
BruceMcF Online
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 13,104
Joined: Jan 2013
Reputation: 760
I Root For: Reds/Buckeyes/.
Location:
Post: #410
RE: So who goes to the Summit?
(07-16-2017 11:29 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(07-16-2017 11:10 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(07-16-2017 08:13 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Apparently, there is only a teenie bit of difference between metro Spokane and metro Ellensburg.
Really, isn't that the case? The Spokane urbanized area population is around 486,000 and the population of all of Kittas County, Washington is almost 45,000, so they are basically neck and neck as far as the population race goes.

The Spokane-Coeur d'Alene metro is 701, 946
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spokane-Co...tical_Area
Yes, metro area populations are almost always bigger than urbanized areas populations. Sometimes metro area populations are inflated in terms of a sense of affiliation with the community, while urbanized area populations are more often on the low side for that, so I used the urbanized area population to be on the safe side.
07-16-2017 11:43 PM
Find all posts by this user
Stugray2 Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 7,175
Joined: Jan 2017
Reputation: 679
I Root For: tOSU SJSU Stan'
Location: South Bay Area CA
Post: #411
RE: So who goes to the Summit?
Bruce,

That Metro area is greater than the entire population of one of the Dakotas. And they are all in car driving range. The Dakota populations are spread out many of those people live 300+ miles from one of their schools.

Ellensburg has 19,786 and all of Kittas county 44,866. The county is only 6% of the greater Spokane area (comparable driving distance). The population density of 19/sq mi, compared to the greater Spokane area of 101/sq mi (5 times the density).

They do not compare on any level.
(This post was last modified: 07-17-2017 03:46 PM by Stugray2.)
07-16-2017 11:49 PM
Find all posts by this user
MplsBison Offline
Banned

Posts: 16,648
Joined: Dec 2014
I Root For: NDSU/Minnesota
Location:
Post: #412
RE: So who goes to the Summit?
With some exceptions, that I think are mostly in the northeast, the MSA's and CSA's are made up of counties. It's a convenient and easy way to do it, but there can be quite a bit of difference in urban vs suburban vs exurban vs just plain rural, within an MSA.

Even in the Twin Cities, just the county that Minneapolis is in (which is a big county, mind you) ... you can go from the most urban, inner city in the state ... to legitimate farm country, all within the same county. Let alone other counties that count for the MSA.
(This post was last modified: 07-17-2017 09:44 AM by MplsBison.)
07-17-2017 09:44 AM
Find all posts by this user
MplsBison Offline
Banned

Posts: 16,648
Joined: Dec 2014
I Root For: NDSU/Minnesota
Location:
Post: #413
RE: So who goes to the Summit?
(07-15-2017 11:14 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  The BSC actions regarding our FB only membership (or lack thereof) is all the evidence needed...and the heavy recruitment of CA by the BSC members and the BSC's ability to sell a trip "home" to recruits.

You already have all the evidence you need to convince yourself you know the truth. And you won't accept anyone criticizing your theories.

There is nothing I can say. But I know you haven't proven anything.


(07-16-2017 12:50 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  Reading the Argus Leader story, it sounds like Augustana would rather stay a big fish in a small pond than move up to D-I.

(07-16-2017 06:37 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  Or it sounds like a school that knows where its right place is.

-OR- (my wild guess)

Augi was legitimately interesting in moving to DI and joining the Summit. But S Dak St said something to the effect of " ... uh ... where were you 15 years ago when we were trying to get the NCC to move up together as a conference?? Sorry, but we're good splitting the state with USD. If you want to move up and join the WAC, knock yourself out. But you ain't getting into the Summit." And they quickly got the support of the other Dakota flagships and Omaha, and send that message to the Summit commissioner. And he was forced to tell Augi, "I like you, and we need another member, but my hands are tied. Sorry!"


(07-16-2017 05:51 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  To SoCalBobcat

WAC contract called for Chicago State to:

* Significantly increase athletic budget (it's actually much smaller, less than 50% of expected levels)
* Add Men's Soccer to their sponsored sports (DOA, Chicago State's AD forgot and now pushing Pioneer Football pipe dream)
* Increase staffing levels (triple) to WAC average, especially in compliance and support (head count is lower)
* Meet all facilities safety requirements (WAC has open complaint about T&F safety, and others)

By comparison UTRGV has met all these requirements, adding Men's and Women's soccer, upping the budget 150% from when they joined, and increasing staffing to WAC averages (over 20 hires).

In addition to the above non-compliance Chicago State's student enrollment has dropped from 7,850 when they signed the contract to under 3200 now. They have collect $0 in donations, and less than $80K in gate for all sports over the last four years. While Hurd has praised UTRGV as an example of a school that is everything the WAC wants in a partner, and even had them meet with CBU as part of their wooing; when asked to confirm Chicago State's status as a WAC member after 2017-18 he has repeatedly refused to comment, except to say "we are monitoring the situation."

I think there is more than enough evidence Chicago State is not likely to be retained or get a new contract. Where are the 6 votes to keep them going to come from?

I am trusting all this info to be correct. But assuming it is, this is exactly what I'm referring to when I say that it's likely that WAC won't extend Chicago St's membership contract. How could they possibly do that, given this info??

Of course, like I said before, that all goes out the window if they lose a member.


(07-16-2017 11:27 PM)AZcats Wrote:  Central Washington has 13 sports (6m/7w) on a budget of $6.5 million. The budget is inflated because they make 3 trips to Alaska each year. Football plays in a 4,000 seat stadium with no permanent restrooms. Men's basketball averages 1,100 attendance. About 60 scholarships are awarded in the entire athletic department with less than 30 for football.

For a D1 move CWU would need: major facility improvements, more than double football scholarships and add scholarships across all sports to D1 levels, add sports, and double the athletic budget.

Please, show us a real action plan that fills those needs in a town of 18,000 people and a county of under 45,000 people. CWU has a lot of competitors; Pullman is 180 miles and Seattle is only 108 miles from campus.

Here's the thing. When you look at Eastern, Central, and even Western Washington, they all kind've look the same from just the institutional profile, number of enrolled students, endowment size, history, etc. And I do think CW has had some success in DII athletics, though no idea if it has been recent or not.

But then you look at a post like yours, and it's so easy to see that there is zero chance that a school like CW will move to DI short of some miracle Bill Gates donation.

And it makes you wonder, really, how the heck EW is where it is and why it isn't in DII.
(This post was last modified: 07-17-2017 09:54 AM by MplsBison.)
07-17-2017 09:52 AM
Find all posts by this user
Lopes87 Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,569
Joined: Jan 2017
Reputation: 38
I Root For: GCU
Location:
Post: #414
RE: So who goes to the Summit?
(07-17-2017 09:52 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 11:14 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  The BSC actions regarding our FB only membership (or lack thereof) is all the evidence needed...and the heavy recruitment of CA by the BSC members and the BSC's ability to sell a trip "home" to recruits.

You already have all the evidence you need to convince yourself you know the truth. And you won't accept anyone criticizing your theories.

There is nothing I can say. But I know you haven't proven anything.


(07-16-2017 12:50 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  Reading the Argus Leader story, it sounds like Augustana would rather stay a big fish in a small pond than move up to D-I.

(07-16-2017 06:37 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  Or it sounds like a school that knows where its right place is.

-OR- (my wild guess)

Augi was legitimately interesting in moving to DI and joining the Summit. But S Dak St said something to the effect of " ... uh ... where were you 15 years ago when we were trying to get the NCC to move up together as a conference?? Sorry, but we're good splitting the state with USD. If you want to move up and join the WAC, knock yourself out. But you ain't getting into the Summit." And they quickly got the support of the other Dakota flagships and Omaha, and send that message to the Summit commissioner. And he was forced to tell Augi, "I like you, and we need another member, but my hands are tied. Sorry!"


(07-16-2017 05:51 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  To SoCalBobcat

WAC contract called for Chicago State to:

* Significantly increase athletic budget (it's actually much smaller, less than 50% of expected levels)
* Add Men's Soccer to their sponsored sports (DOA, Chicago State's AD forgot and now pushing Pioneer Football pipe dream)
* Increase staffing levels (triple) to WAC average, especially in compliance and support (head count is lower)
* Meet all facilities safety requirements (WAC has open complaint about T&F safety, and others)

By comparison UTRGV has met all these requirements, adding Men's and Women's soccer, upping the budget 150% from when they joined, and increasing staffing to WAC averages (over 20 hires).

In addition to the above non-compliance Chicago State's student enrollment has dropped from 7,850 when they signed the contract to under 3200 now. They have collect $0 in donations, and less than $80K in gate for all sports over the last four years. While Hurd has praised UTRGV as an example of a school that is everything the WAC wants in a partner, and even had them meet with CBU as part of their wooing; when asked to confirm Chicago State's status as a WAC member after 2017-18 he has repeatedly refused to comment, except to say "we are monitoring the situation."

I think there is more than enough evidence Chicago State is not likely to be retained or get a new contract. Where are the 6 votes to keep them going to come from?

I am trusting all this info to be correct. But assuming it is, this is exactly what I'm referring to when I say that it's likely that WAC won't extend Chicago St's membership contract. How could they possibly do that, given this info??

Of course, like I said before, that all goes out the window if they lose a member.


(07-16-2017 11:27 PM)AZcats Wrote:  Central Washington has 13 sports (6m/7w) on a budget of $6.5 million. The budget is inflated because they make 3 trips to Alaska each year. Football plays in a 4,000 seat stadium with no permanent restrooms. Men's basketball averages 1,100 attendance. About 60 scholarships are awarded in the entire athletic department with less than 30 for football.

For a D1 move CWU would need: major facility improvements, more than double football scholarships and add scholarships across all sports to D1 levels, add sports, and double the athletic budget.

Please, show us a real action plan that fills those needs in a town of 18,000 people and a county of under 45,000 people. CWU has a lot of competitors; Pullman is 180 miles and Seattle is only 108 miles from campus.

Here's the thing. When you look at Eastern, Central, and even Western Washington, they all kind've look the same from just the institutional profile, number of enrolled students, endowment size, history, etc. And I do think CW has had some success in DII athletics, though no idea if it has been recent or not.

But then you look at a post like yours, and it's so easy to see that there is zero chance that a school like CW will move to DI short of some miracle Bill Gates donation.

And it makes you wonder, really, how the heck EW is where it is and why it isn't in DII.

I have some family that works at WSU and they say that CWU is planing to grow to 25/35k students by 2025 and they are building like crazy around the Ellensburg. I could see CWU also going Pioneer for football is the jumped to the FCS level. Western Washington is in a nice town but the leadership there is anti athletics. Both schools are getting upgrades for their campuses and their facilities. Should be fun to see what happens down the road.
07-17-2017 07:26 PM
Find all posts by this user
NoDak Offline
Jersey Retired
Jersey Retired

Posts: 6,958
Joined: Oct 2005
Reputation: 105
I Root For: UND
Location:
Post: #415
RE: So who goes to the Summit?
(07-17-2017 07:26 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  
(07-17-2017 09:52 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 11:14 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  The BSC actions regarding our FB only membership (or lack thereof) is all the evidence needed...and the heavy recruitment of CA by the BSC members and the BSC's ability to sell a trip "home" to recruits.

You already have all the evidence you need to convince yourself you know the truth. And you won't accept anyone criticizing your theories.

There is nothing I can say. But I know you haven't proven anything.


(07-16-2017 12:50 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  Reading the Argus Leader story, it sounds like Augustana would rather stay a big fish in a small pond than move up to D-I.

(07-16-2017 06:37 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  Or it sounds like a school that knows where its right place is.

-OR- (my wild guess)

Augi was legitimately interesting in moving to DI and joining the Summit. But S Dak St said something to the effect of " ... uh ... where were you 15 years ago when we were trying to get the NCC to move up together as a conference?? Sorry, but we're good splitting the state with USD. If you want to move up and join the WAC, knock yourself out. But you ain't getting into the Summit." And they quickly got the support of the other Dakota flagships and Omaha, and send that message to the Summit commissioner. And he was forced to tell Augi, "I like you, and we need another member, but my hands are tied. Sorry!"


(07-16-2017 05:51 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  To SoCalBobcat

WAC contract called for Chicago State to:

* Significantly increase athletic budget (it's actually much smaller, less than 50% of expected levels)
* Add Men's Soccer to their sponsored sports (DOA, Chicago State's AD forgot and now pushing Pioneer Football pipe dream)
* Increase staffing levels (triple) to WAC average, especially in compliance and support (head count is lower)
* Meet all facilities safety requirements (WAC has open complaint about T&F safety, and others)

By comparison UTRGV has met all these requirements, adding Men's and Women's soccer, upping the budget 150% from when they joined, and increasing staffing to WAC averages (over 20 hires).

In addition to the above non-compliance Chicago State's student enrollment has dropped from 7,850 when they signed the contract to under 3200 now. They have collect $0 in donations, and less than $80K in gate for all sports over the last four years. While Hurd has praised UTRGV as an example of a school that is everything the WAC wants in a partner, and even had them meet with CBU as part of their wooing; when asked to confirm Chicago State's status as a WAC member after 2017-18 he has repeatedly refused to comment, except to say "we are monitoring the situation."

I think there is more than enough evidence Chicago State is not likely to be retained or get a new contract. Where are the 6 votes to keep them going to come from?

I am trusting all this info to be correct. But assuming it is, this is exactly what I'm referring to when I say that it's likely that WAC won't extend Chicago St's membership contract. How could they possibly do that, given this info??

Of course, like I said before, that all goes out the window if they lose a member.


(07-16-2017 11:27 PM)AZcats Wrote:  Central Washington has 13 sports (6m/7w) on a budget of $6.5 million. The budget is inflated because they make 3 trips to Alaska each year. Football plays in a 4,000 seat stadium with no permanent restrooms. Men's basketball averages 1,100 attendance. About 60 scholarships are awarded in the entire athletic department with less than 30 for football.

For a D1 move CWU would need: major facility improvements, more than double football scholarships and add scholarships across all sports to D1 levels, add sports, and double the athletic budget.

Please, show us a real action plan that fills those needs in a town of 18,000 people and a county of under 45,000 people. CWU has a lot of competitors; Pullman is 180 miles and Seattle is only 108 miles from campus.

Here's the thing. When you look at Eastern, Central, and even Western Washington, they all kind've look the same from just the institutional profile, number of enrolled students, endowment size, history, etc. And I do think CW has had some success in DII athletics, though no idea if it has been recent or not.

But then you look at a post like yours, and it's so easy to see that there is zero chance that a school like CW will move to DI short of some miracle Bill Gates donation.

And it makes you wonder, really, how the heck EW is where it is and why it isn't in DII.

I have some family that works at WSU and they say that CWU is planing to grow to 25/35k students by 2025 and they are building like crazy around the Ellensburg. I could see CWU also going Pioneer for football is the jumped to the FCS level. Western Washington is in a nice town but the leadership there is anti athletics. Both schools are getting upgrades for their campuses and their facilities. Should be fun to see what happens down the road.

Evergreen State is self destructing worse than Mizzou. Those students will have to go somewhere.

Central Washington has a minimal endowment and no real fan base except for rodeo. Those factors don't lend itself to an FCS power.

Western Washington would be better off with lacrosse. Too much Evergreen students there for football.
(This post was last modified: 07-17-2017 07:39 PM by NoDak.)
07-17-2017 07:37 PM
Find all posts by this user
Lopes87 Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,569
Joined: Jan 2017
Reputation: 38
I Root For: GCU
Location:
Post: #416
RE: So who goes to the Summit?
(07-17-2017 07:37 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(07-17-2017 07:26 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  
(07-17-2017 09:52 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 11:14 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  The BSC actions regarding our FB only membership (or lack thereof) is all the evidence needed...and the heavy recruitment of CA by the BSC members and the BSC's ability to sell a trip "home" to recruits.

You already have all the evidence you need to convince yourself you know the truth. And you won't accept anyone criticizing your theories.

There is nothing I can say. But I know you haven't proven anything.


(07-16-2017 12:50 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  Reading the Argus Leader story, it sounds like Augustana would rather stay a big fish in a small pond than move up to D-I.

(07-16-2017 06:37 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  Or it sounds like a school that knows where its right place is.

-OR- (my wild guess)

Augi was legitimately interesting in moving to DI and joining the Summit. But S Dak St said something to the effect of " ... uh ... where were you 15 years ago when we were trying to get the NCC to move up together as a conference?? Sorry, but we're good splitting the state with USD. If you want to move up and join the WAC, knock yourself out. But you ain't getting into the Summit." And they quickly got the support of the other Dakota flagships and Omaha, and send that message to the Summit commissioner. And he was forced to tell Augi, "I like you, and we need another member, but my hands are tied. Sorry!"


(07-16-2017 05:51 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  To SoCalBobcat

WAC contract called for Chicago State to:

* Significantly increase athletic budget (it's actually much smaller, less than 50% of expected levels)
* Add Men's Soccer to their sponsored sports (DOA, Chicago State's AD forgot and now pushing Pioneer Football pipe dream)
* Increase staffing levels (triple) to WAC average, especially in compliance and support (head count is lower)
* Meet all facilities safety requirements (WAC has open complaint about T&F safety, and others)

By comparison UTRGV has met all these requirements, adding Men's and Women's soccer, upping the budget 150% from when they joined, and increasing staffing to WAC averages (over 20 hires).

In addition to the above non-compliance Chicago State's student enrollment has dropped from 7,850 when they signed the contract to under 3200 now. They have collect $0 in donations, and less than $80K in gate for all sports over the last four years. While Hurd has praised UTRGV as an example of a school that is everything the WAC wants in a partner, and even had them meet with CBU as part of their wooing; when asked to confirm Chicago State's status as a WAC member after 2017-18 he has repeatedly refused to comment, except to say "we are monitoring the situation."

I think there is more than enough evidence Chicago State is not likely to be retained or get a new contract. Where are the 6 votes to keep them going to come from?

I am trusting all this info to be correct. But assuming it is, this is exactly what I'm referring to when I say that it's likely that WAC won't extend Chicago St's membership contract. How could they possibly do that, given this info??

Of course, like I said before, that all goes out the window if they lose a member.


(07-16-2017 11:27 PM)AZcats Wrote:  Central Washington has 13 sports (6m/7w) on a budget of $6.5 million. The budget is inflated because they make 3 trips to Alaska each year. Football plays in a 4,000 seat stadium with no permanent restrooms. Men's basketball averages 1,100 attendance. About 60 scholarships are awarded in the entire athletic department with less than 30 for football.

For a D1 move CWU would need: major facility improvements, more than double football scholarships and add scholarships across all sports to D1 levels, add sports, and double the athletic budget.

Please, show us a real action plan that fills those needs in a town of 18,000 people and a county of under 45,000 people. CWU has a lot of competitors; Pullman is 180 miles and Seattle is only 108 miles from campus.

Here's the thing. When you look at Eastern, Central, and even Western Washington, they all kind've look the same from just the institutional profile, number of enrolled students, endowment size, history, etc. And I do think CW has had some success in DII athletics, though no idea if it has been recent or not.

But then you look at a post like yours, and it's so easy to see that there is zero chance that a school like CW will move to DI short of some miracle Bill Gates donation.

And it makes you wonder, really, how the heck EW is where it is and why it isn't in DII.

I have some family that works at WSU and they say that CWU is planing to grow to 25/35k students by 2025 and they are building like crazy around the Ellensburg. I could see CWU also going Pioneer for football is the jumped to the FCS level. Western Washington is in a nice town but the leadership there is anti athletics. Both schools are getting upgrades for their campuses and their facilities. Should be fun to see what happens down the road.

Evergreen State is self destructing worse than Mizzou. Those students will have to go somewhere.

Central Washington has a minimal endowment and no real fan base except for rodeo. Those factors don't lend itself to an FCS power.

Western Washington would be better off with lacrosse. Too much Evergreen students there for football.

Evergreen and Western don't sponsor football. Evergreen pays their basketball coaches 21k a year to give you reference of how poorly they are doing athletics.
(This post was last modified: 07-17-2017 09:17 PM by Lopes87.)
07-17-2017 09:16 PM
Find all posts by this user
SoCalBobcat78 Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,859
Joined: Jan 2014
Reputation: 302
I Root For: TXST, UCLA, CBU
Location:
Post: #417
RE: So who goes to the Summit?
(07-16-2017 11:01 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 11:55 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  Chicago State just got a commit from a 3 star point guard out of Chicago, Marquis Brown. They also offered his teammate, a 3 star forward. With the new state budget, Chicago State is receiving from the state $23 million for last fiscal year and $35 million for next fiscal.

They can start paying bills and recruiting students again. They can spend money on capital improvements. They are not going out of business, they are not dropping down to NAIA and they are not getting kicked out of the WAC. There is zero evidence that the WAC or Chicago State are breaking up.

Like I said before, I actually tip my hat to you for being literally the only poster on this whole board who believes in Chicago St. Even if you're just playing devil's advocate.

Chicago St made several commitments to the WAC conf in the contract it signed for temporary membership in the conf. They haven't come close to meeting those commitments, so the WAC would be well within their right to not renew membership. Would also save its other members trips to Chicago.


But as MSB made a very good point in the post above yours, if UMKC (or someone else) leaves the WAC during this coming sports year ... they could well hang onto Chicago St until they get a replacement lined up and/or a waiver from the NCAA teed up and agreed upon.

They are staying. The WAC needs them and they need the WAC. The agreement was to add men's and women soccer. They have added women's soccer, they built a $2.5 million baseball field but they did not add men's soccer. They had the money budgeted for the hiring of a men's soccer coach, but then the state budget crisis hit.

They will have the money to get it done this year, the question is how important is it to the WAC? The WAC will have 12 men's soccer schools in 2018. Anyway, the schools in the WAC understand what has happened in Illinois the past two years with the state budget crisis and they are not going to ask them to leave. Common sense should tell you that the WAC is in no position to tell any school to leave. I could say the same about the Summit.
07-18-2017 09:35 AM
Find all posts by this user
jacksfan29 Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 592
Joined: May 2016
Reputation: 19
I Root For: So Dak St/CU
Location: Western Colorado
Post: #418
RE: So who goes to the Summit?
(07-18-2017 09:35 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(07-16-2017 11:01 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 11:55 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  Chicago State just got a commit from a 3 star point guard out of Chicago, Marquis Brown. They also offered his teammate, a 3 star forward. With the new state budget, Chicago State is receiving from the state $23 million for last fiscal year and $35 million for next fiscal.

They can start paying bills and recruiting students again. They can spend money on capital improvements. They are not going out of business, they are not dropping down to NAIA and they are not getting kicked out of the WAC. There is zero evidence that the WAC or Chicago State are breaking up.

Like I said before, I actually tip my hat to you for being literally the only poster on this whole board who believes in Chicago St. Even if you're just playing devil's advocate.

Chicago St made several commitments to the WAC conf in the contract it signed for temporary membership in the conf. They haven't come close to meeting those commitments, so the WAC would be well within their right to not renew membership. Would also save its other members trips to Chicago.


But as MSB made a very good point in the post above yours, if UMKC (or someone else) leaves the WAC during this coming sports year ... they could well hang onto Chicago St until they get a replacement lined up and/or a waiver from the NCAA teed up and agreed upon.

They are staying. The WAC needs them and they need the WAC. The agreement was to add men's and women soccer. They have added women's soccer, they built a $2.5 million baseball field but they did not add men's soccer. They had the money budgeted for the hiring of a men's soccer coach, but then the state budget crisis hit.

They will have the money to get it done this year, the question is how important is it to the WAC? The WAC will have 12 men's soccer schools in 2018. Anyway, the schools in the WAC understand what has happened in Illinois the past two years with the state budget crisis and they are not going to ask them to leave. Common sense should tell you that the WAC is in no position to tell any school to leave. I could say the same about the Summit.

Chicago State will not be in the WAC once the contract expires. The more recent budget trouble is only the most recent issue Chicago State has had. They do not belong in D1 and once the WAC sends them packing they will no longer be in D1.
07-18-2017 10:27 AM
Find all posts by this user
DavidSt Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 23,011
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 732
I Root For: ATU, P7
Location:
Post: #419
RE: So who goes to the Summit?
Western Washington was on the list for a possible WAC expansion a few years ago. Western Washington went 25-6 in men's basketball and went to the tournament.

Central Washington went 14-12 last year, and they played an exhibition game against Washington State in men's basketball losing 81-76. They seem to be able to compete at the D1 levels at all sports.
07-18-2017 10:39 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
jacksfan29 Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 592
Joined: May 2016
Reputation: 19
I Root For: So Dak St/CU
Location: Western Colorado
Post: #420
RE: So who goes to the Summit?
(07-14-2017 10:57 AM)NoDak Wrote:  Augustana (SD) has been told the Summit isn't interested, says a the Sioux Falls Argus-Leader.

So the only DII to publicly express interest has been flat turned down. Very doubtful that any Minnesota school will declare public interest in DI except hockey.

So the Summit must have interest from at least one existing DI.

Denver and UND are not interested in Lindenwood as a hockey school now. Lindenwood can go DI right now in hockey without anotice invite and prove themselves. The WCHA can take them.

Can you provide a link to the story that states the Summit told them they weren't interested? I did find the article where Augustana very clearly said they will not go D1, which is a logical choice for them. They have less then 2,000 students and a budget of $10 million. They don't have the large alumni base nor state funding allowing for them to double their budget.

From what I can tell, at no time have Augustana or the Summit even talked, maybe I'm missing an article, please provide the link.
07-18-2017 10:48 AM
Find all posts by this user
Thread Closed 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2024 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2024 MyBB Group.