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So who goes to the Summit?
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #81
RE: So who goes to the Summit?
(06-28-2017 05:34 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  NoCo is not interested. The Big Sky is better for them, fits their sports mix and western orientation and Mountain Time zone. They recruit Colorado 1st, California and Seattle 2nd, then a big gap to Texas 3rd and another gap to Florida and Chicago - you have to add all three together to equal California. The Summit makes not sense for NoCo in terms of students or recruiting. The travel would be mo better heading to small towns in the Midwest. Makes ZERO sense for NoCo.

You guys need to not pay much attention to the North Dakota based posters when evaluating these things. They have a very warped view of geography and regional leanings. Everything they post is about what would be good for North Dakota (or NDSU) and not what makes sense for the schools they want to join them. If you notice nobody from the Mountain or Pacific time zones agrees with their opinion. They seem to think Grand Forks is located just outside Santa Barbara and Fargo is nearer Carlsbad. (Cabin Fever ... but in late June?)

On Chicago State, I threw that out as a break glass three alarm fire, nobody is willing to join and you just lost Ft. Wayne! But that was to demonstrate the pickings are slim.

UMKC the issue is bad blood.

SIU-E wants to leave the OVC, its a bad fit. They recognize their dependence upon Chicago and the Midwest for students, not the upper South. SIUE are the most likely to accept an invite tomorrow. EIu would very likely consider after SIUE joined, as that would be a conference with WIU and SIUE as well as themselves, and they would be the only Illinois school in the OVC. The OVC does not look very secure. Murray wanting to leave and SIUE also trying to leave, everyone courting Belmont, is obvious to everyone in the league. If one leaves they are likely to see two or three more.

Anyway my point is the Summit should focus on the schools who are most likely to be interested and not on North Dakota posters wet dreams.

SiU-E strategic priorities are (a) MVC, (b) Horizon, © OVC. The Summit is just off their radar. With MAC affiliate membership now in men's soccer and it having Mizzou too, the Summit is a laughable alternative.
06-28-2017 05:45 PM
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Rube Dali Offline
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Post: #82
RE: So who goes to the Summit?
Stugray,

What's your opinion on what would happen if the Summit needed to reach into Minnesota if needed.
06-28-2017 05:45 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #83
RE: So who goes to the Summit?
(06-28-2017 05:41 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Interesting that Montana signed a long term football deal today with UND. Guess it helped that I went on their board this weekend and said the Montanas and Idaho were moving to the Summit as soon as it's truly a plains conference. The Montana AD must have wanted to dispell such heresy among fans!

I am sure that is it.
06-28-2017 05:54 PM
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HawaiiMongoose Offline
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Post: #84
RE: So who goes to the Summit?
It doesn't seem like the Summit has good options. UMKC doesn't bring baseball or men's soccer. Northern Colorado probably isn't interested, but if it were a home would be needed for its football team, which would require expanding or splitting up the MVFC. Messy. SIUE ticks a lot of boxes from the Summit's perspective -- brings baseball and men's soccer, doesn't play football, is in a good spot geographically -- but it's not clear to me how SIUE benefits from trading a bus league for difficult winter travel to the Dakotas.
06-28-2017 05:59 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #85
RE: So who goes to the Summit?
(06-28-2017 05:41 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Interesting that Montana signed a long term football deal today with UND. Guess it helped that I went on their board this weekend and said the Montanas and Idaho were moving to the Summit as soon as it's truly a plains conference. The Montana AD must have wanted to dispell such heresy among fans!

You mean this trainwreck of a thread where all the Griz posters laugh and make fun of your ideas and ask why Montana would want to drop down like that?

http://egriz.com/grizboard/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=76583


03-lmfao03-lmfao
06-28-2017 06:03 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #86
RE: So who goes to the Summit?
(06-28-2017 05:10 PM)Rube Dali Wrote:  
(06-28-2017 04:46 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Stugray--you're missing a big one and one I think the Summit will pursue--

Northern Colorado--much like EIU they'd bring a football program and they also would be a travel partner for Denver. They are a former conference mate of 5 Summit schools too.

I think there are some flaws with a few of those schools as candidates:

SIU-E and EIU have better travel situations in the OVC and I don't see the, wanting to trek up to the Dakotas. I think they are happy where they are.

I think option 1 is Northern Colorado
2nd pick is forgiving a silly UMKC. While there might be some hard feelings the Summit doesn't have a lot of top 35 tv markets so getting KC back would be a plus.
I don't think Chicago St is even an option since they are such a dumpster fire. The Summit is not in danger of falling below the minimum number of eligible schools so I think they would being in Minnesota D2s before taking the Chi St Cougars.

Again, someone with no knowledge of Minnesota politics. No one will be allowed to move up, even if they were to move as a group(which isn't allowed anymore, anyway). The opposition isn't going to come from the Dakota schools, it's coming from the legislature.


It is the same with Omaha. Nebraska politics would not allow a second school in D1. Guess what? Omaha got the call and the politics did not block them. Same thing will be the same with Minnesota. Not all politicians come from Minnesota. They come from other schools including the D2 schools. Enough of them could cause a hassle that any D2 Minnesota schools could move up. Many politicians in Arkansas are from schools that they did not came from Arkansas. Politicians these days are not from a P5, or FBS schools. They come from FCS, D2, D3 and NAIA schools. They really outnumbered the P5 schools these days.
06-28-2017 06:05 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #87
RE: So who goes to the Summit?
Montana playing UND in a long series does not mean they want to trade their western rivals or recruiting for Dakota schools.
Consider Notre Dame has long, almost permanent series with Stanford and USC, but they are not going to join the Pac-12

Ignore the North Dakota perspective and focus on the possible.

SIUE the sell is Midwest, join WIU, and down the road EIU, as well as Ft. Wayne. The travel is more, but the exposure is with the region you kids come from. I would offer to eat the entry fee if I'm the Summit, or stretch it out over five or more years, even delay is a couple years so they can pay the OVC exit fee. The big point is SIUE has made it abundantly clear they want to leave the OVC, it's not a culture fit. And that makes the Midwest a sell point.

Prying SIUE loose will make recruiting EIU far easier in a year or two -- the sell for them is a Summit Football, which would mean Midwestern rather than upper South opponents, and only 6 schools vying for an AQ instead of 10.
06-28-2017 06:12 PM
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NDBison Offline
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Post: #88
RE: So who goes to the Summit?
If the Summit gets SIUE, it doesn't need EIU. Also the Summit would take UMKC back, the league took ORU back and they would do the same for UMKC.

NDSU has absolutely no interest at all in playing a six team football conference. The school is very happy in the MVFC and I don't see that changing.
(This post was last modified: 06-28-2017 07:15 PM by NDBison.)
06-28-2017 07:12 PM
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Post: #89
RE: So who goes to the Summit?
(06-28-2017 05:59 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  It doesn't seem like the Summit has good options. UMKC doesn't bring baseball or men's soccer. Northern Colorado probably isn't interested, but if it were a home would be needed for its football team, which would require expanding or splitting up the MVFC. Messy. SIUE ticks a lot of boxes from the Summit's perspective -- brings baseball and men's soccer, doesn't play football, is in a good spot geographically -- but it's not clear to me how SIUE benefits from trading a bus league for difficult winter travel to the Dakotas.

UMKC has men's soccer.
06-28-2017 07:27 PM
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AZcats Offline
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Post: #90
RE: So who goes to the Summit?
(06-28-2017 06:05 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(06-28-2017 05:10 PM)Rube Dali Wrote:  
(06-28-2017 04:46 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Stugray--you're missing a big one and one I think the Summit will pursue--

Northern Colorado--much like EIU they'd bring a football program and they also would be a travel partner for Denver. They are a former conference mate of 5 Summit schools too.

I think there are some flaws with a few of those schools as candidates:

SIU-E and EIU have better travel situations in the OVC and I don't see the, wanting to trek up to the Dakotas. I think they are happy where they are.

I think option 1 is Northern Colorado
2nd pick is forgiving a silly UMKC. While there might be some hard feelings the Summit doesn't have a lot of top 35 tv markets so getting KC back would be a plus.
I don't think Chicago St is even an option since they are such a dumpster fire. The Summit is not in danger of falling below the minimum number of eligible schools so I think they would being in Minnesota D2s before taking the Chi St Cougars.

Again, someone with no knowledge of Minnesota politics. No one will be allowed to move up, even if they were to move as a group(which isn't allowed anymore, anyway). The opposition isn't going to come from the Dakota schools, it's coming from the legislature.


It is the same with Omaha. Nebraska politics would not allow a second school in D1. Guess what? Omaha got the call and the politics did not block them. Same thing will be the same with Minnesota. Not all politicians come from Minnesota. They come from other schools including the D2 schools. Enough of them could cause a hassle that any D2 Minnesota schools could move up. Many politicians in Arkansas are from schools that they did not came from Arkansas. Politicians these days are not from a P5, or FBS schools. They come from FCS, D2, D3 and NAIA schools. They really outnumbered the P5 schools these days.

Politics DID block them. Omaha was forced to give up football and wrestling before they could move up. Trev Alberts may wear the Omaha "O" but everyone knows he really works for the big "N" in Lincoln.
06-28-2017 07:39 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #91
RE: So who goes to the Summit?
(06-28-2017 06:03 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(06-28-2017 05:41 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Interesting that Montana signed a long term football deal today with UND. Guess it helped that I went on their board this weekend and said the Montanas and Idaho were moving to the Summit as soon as it's truly a plains conference. The Montana AD must have wanted to dispell such heresy among fans!

You mean this trainwreck of a thread where all the Griz posters laugh and make fun of your ideas and ask why Montana would want to drop down like that?

http://egriz.com/grizboard/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=76583


03-lmfao03-lmfao

The intelligent and connected ones, though they are few, didn't comment.

The same week the Montana supporters were begging to start a series against NDSU, but they conveniently didn't talk about it.

I only said that to get you and Stugray riled up after your own insane comments about the Montanas wanting to drop UND. Montana wants NoDak competition longterm, no matter how much you deny it.
(This post was last modified: 06-28-2017 07:54 PM by NoDak.)
06-28-2017 07:46 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: So who goes to the Summit?
Central Oklahoma raised over $25 million dollars the last couple of years to make some upgrades to their facilities. If they continue doing this? They could go into Summit and be part of the MVFC for football.
06-28-2017 07:54 PM
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Post: #93
RE: So who goes to the Summit?
(06-28-2017 07:27 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(06-28-2017 05:59 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  It doesn't seem like the Summit has good options. UMKC doesn't bring baseball or men's soccer. Northern Colorado probably isn't interested, but if it were a home would be needed for its football team, which would require expanding or splitting up the MVFC. Messy. SIUE ticks a lot of boxes from the Summit's perspective -- brings baseball and men's soccer, doesn't play football, is in a good spot geographically -- but it's not clear to me how SIUE benefits from trading a bus league for difficult winter travel to the Dakotas.

UMKC has men's soccer.

Thank you, I stand corrected.
06-28-2017 07:59 PM
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Post: #94
RE: So who goes to the Summit?
(06-28-2017 07:12 PM)NDBison Wrote:  If the Summit gets SIUE, it doesn't need EIU. Also the Summit would take UMKC back, the league took ORU back and they would do the same for UMKC.

NDSU has absolutely no interest at all in playing a six team football conference. The school is very happy in the MVFC and I don't see that changing.

Agree, not right away anyway. SIUE would give the Summit 10 schools.

The problem is the Horizon might need to replace Milwaukee in a couple years, and that could mean they target Purdue-Ft Wayne or Omaha. Then you would need Eastern Illinois.

But if Eastern wants to come with Edwardsville, I would not be stupid and turn them down. There is a good chance at some point in the next three or four years one of Denver, Omaha or Fort Wayne will depart. Having insurance is a better policy than scrambling. Also starting Summit football would be a big boost. (Eastern is better add than Edwardsville because of football)

NDSU would not object. They would play 5 league games, and have 2 or 3 MVC foes by the two leagues schedule agreement, which would amount to swapping EIU for Indy St (or similar) on the schedule. Not exactly an earth shattering difference. The MVFC is going to split in a few years anyway, it might as well be on the Summit's terms.
06-28-2017 08:10 PM
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NDBison Offline
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RE: So who goes to the Summit?
NDSU would certainly object, to the point where the school would block EIU. The MVFC isn't splitting anytime soon, there is no reason for it to split.

If you are going to create a new football league for NDSU, I suggest at least be like Nodak and make it a viable league that can stand on its own. NDSU was in a smaller league before and it was a constant scheduling nightmare.
(This post was last modified: 06-28-2017 08:35 PM by NDBison.)
06-28-2017 08:33 PM
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Post: #96
RE: So who goes to the Summit?
(06-28-2017 08:10 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(06-28-2017 07:12 PM)NDBison Wrote:  If the Summit gets SIUE, it doesn't need EIU. Also the Summit would take UMKC back, the league took ORU back and they would do the same for UMKC.

NDSU has absolutely no interest at all in playing a six team football conference. The school is very happy in the MVFC and I don't see that changing.

Agree, not right away anyway. SIUE would give the Summit 10 schools.

The problem is the Horizon might need to replace Milwaukee in a couple years, and that could mean they target Purdue-Ft Wayne or Omaha. Then you would need Eastern Illinois.

But if Eastern wants to come with Edwardsville, I would not be stupid and turn them down. There is a good chance at some point in the next three or four years one of Denver, Omaha or Fort Wayne will depart. Having insurance is a better policy than scrambling. Also starting Summit football would be a big boost. (Eastern is better add than Edwardsville because of football)

NDSU would not object. They would play 5 league games, and have 2 or 3 MVC foes by the two leagues schedule agreement, which would amount to swapping EIU for Indy St (or similar) on the schedule. Not exactly an earth shattering difference. The MVFC is going to split in a few years anyway, it might as well be on the Summit's terms.

SiU-E and EIU, with Illinois teetering on bankruptcy, are not in a position to pay $0.5 million in exit fees and forfeit two years of conference payments from the OVC. Try again. It may have gone up since 2013 too.

IUPUI has to pay $1.5 mill in Summit exit fees. Indiana schools see that as a bargain prices for a Horizon opening. An $ 0.5 mill was recently added as a surcharge, and the fee was raised two years ago because the Summit was fearful of schools leaving.
(This post was last modified: 06-28-2017 08:41 PM by NoDak.)
06-28-2017 08:33 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #97
RE: So who goes to the Summit?
(06-28-2017 08:33 PM)NDBison Wrote:  NDSU would certainly object, to the point where the school would block EIU. The MVFC isn't splitting anytime soon, there is no reason for it to split.

If you are going to create a new football league for NDSU, I suggest at least be like Nodak and make it a viable league that can stand on its own. NDSU was in a smaller league before and it was a constant scheduling nightmare.

I'm sure they will object when the MVC starts football and leaves the Summit schools and YSU out. NDSU wont have a choiice. When your parent conference starts a sport, you are obligated to join. Ask Minnesota fans about being forced to join B1G Hockey.

It's going to happen. You might as well start planning for it. I could see NDSU signing a long term deal with Northern Iowa or Illinois State to ensure quality opponents.
(This post was last modified: 06-28-2017 08:57 PM by Stugray2.)
06-28-2017 08:46 PM
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Post: #98
RE: So who goes to the Summit?
(06-28-2017 08:46 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(06-28-2017 08:33 PM)NDBison Wrote:  NDSU would certainly object, to the point where the school would block EIU. The MVFC isn't splitting anytime soon, there is no reason for it to split.

If you are going to create a new football league for NDSU, I suggest at least be like Nodak and make it a viable league that can stand on its own. NDSU was in a smaller league before and it was a constant scheduling nightmare.

I'm sure they will object when the MVC starts football and leaves the Summit schools and YSU out.

It's going to happen. You might as well start planning for it

No it's not, you are clueless.
06-28-2017 08:48 PM
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Post: #99
So who goes to the Summit?
(06-28-2017 05:41 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Interesting that Montana signed a long term football deal today with UND. Guess it helped that I went on their board this weekend and said the Montanas and Idaho were moving to the Summit as soon as it's truly a plains conference. The Montana AD must have wanted to dispell such heresy among fans!


what a home and home deal? better then the non scholly fcs team they often bring in


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06-28-2017 08:51 PM
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Post: #100
RE: So who goes to the Summit?
(06-28-2017 08:46 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(06-28-2017 08:33 PM)NDBison Wrote:  NDSU would certainly object, to the point where the school would block EIU. The MVFC isn't splitting anytime soon, there is no reason for it to split.

If you are going to create a new football league for NDSU, I suggest at least be like Nodak and make it a viable league that can stand on its own. NDSU was in a smaller league before and it was a constant scheduling nightmare.

I'm sure they will object when the MVC starts football and leaves the Summit schools and YSU out.

It's going to happen. You might as well start planning for it

The MVC has no reason to do that and Murray State isn't going to be the reason it happens.
06-28-2017 08:54 PM
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