(07-27-2017 06:49 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(07-27-2017 06:41 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(07-27-2017 06:39 PM)billings Wrote:  

(07-27-2017 06:32 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(07-27-2017 05:34 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Again, for the 2,000th time, the late arrival was because the Big Sky already had conference football schedules through 2019, and in an effort to not burn bridges with the main OOC conference, the MVFC agreed to delay until 2020

The Big Sky has not yet announced the 2018 schedule, so what you posted are lies. According to you and your version of rewritten history, the Montanas were against USD and UND getting Big Sky invites too.

According to UND the Big sky did release 2016-2019 schedules

http://www.undsports.com/ViewArticle.dbm...=209494583

The 2018 and 2019 schedules have been withdrawn by the Big Sky.

Link?

I listened to you and was chewed out on the Idaho board. Those schedules didn't include Idaho. Last time I'm listening to your garbage.

(07-27-2017 06:52 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(07-27-2017 06:49 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(07-27-2017 06:41 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(07-27-2017 06:39 PM)billings Wrote:  

(07-27-2017 06:32 PM)NoDak Wrote:  The Big Sky has not yet announced the 2018 schedule, so what you posted are lies. According to you and your version of rewritten history, the Montanas were against USD and UND getting Big Sky invites too.

According to UND the Big sky did release 2016-2019 schedules

http://www.undsports.com/ViewArticle.dbm...=209494583

The 2018 and 2019 schedules have been withdrawn by the Big Sky.

Link?

I listened to you and was chewed out on the Idaho board. Those schedules didn't include Idaho. Last time I'm listening to your garbage.

Link?

Quote:Williams hopes the NCAA will approve the league’s petition to play into a 14th week. That not only would set the stage for nine conference games, but would start in earnest the discussion about divisions and an overall championship game at the end.

http://www.davisenterprise.com/sports/bi...-schedule/

They'll also have to decide on how to deal with "rivals" as Idaho joins and UND plays as an independent.

(07-27-2017 05:50 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Guys ... you all know it's a shtick. He states wild guesses as if they're fact, and then berates anyone who doesn't accept them as such.

It grows tiresome.

I vote that we just ignore him for a while. And any new poster who gets caught in his fly paper, we'll calmly explain the situation and encourage them to also ignore him.

It's the offseason, what better things are there to do on message boards?

(07-27-2017 07:05 PM)NoQuestion Wrote:  

Quote:Williams hopes the NCAA will approve the league’s petition to play into a 14th week. That not only would set the stage for nine conference games, but would start in earnest the discussion about divisions and an overall championship game at the end.

http://www.davisenterprise.com/sports/bi...-schedule/

They'll also have to decide on how to deal with "rivals" as Idaho joins and UND plays as an independent.

Wouldn't the CCG cost the BSC its playoff bids (see SWAC)? To avoid this wouldn't this mean the season starts in the 2nd to last week of August?

U of Manitoba

(07-27-2017 10:47 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  Wouldn't the CCG cost the BSC its playoff bids (see SWAC)? To avoid this wouldn't this mean the season starts in the 2nd to last week of August?

I think it all comes down to if the rules governing the maximum number of games in the regular season are violated. Currently, there are no rules allowing FCS conferences to hold an exempt CCG ... and the reason is that the playoffs take up so many weeks, there's just no room to allow that. In fact, FCS currently only allows 11 regular season games (except when there's an extra week, depending how the calendar works out that year). Though I think there may be a proposal to expand the season to the August weekend you're talking about ("Week 0").

However, if you do a flex-schedule for the last week of the regular season, then technically you can always match the top two teams in the conference for a "defacto CCG". If the conf plays 9 conf games, then it should work out that the highest ranked team (hosting the CCG) would wind up with five home conf games. The negatives of this are: 1) could be a rematch of a regular season game already played, 2) if the same team is the second highest ranked team in consecutive years, it would wind up with only four conf home games in consecutive years, 3) could potentially "screw up" the schedules for the rest of the league, in terms of playing rematches or getting the "fair" number of conf home games in consecutive years.

(07-27-2017 11:56 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  U of Manitoba

Not sure if you were being serious, but this is a cool idea for outside the box. They'd fit right in with the Dakotas institutionally and geography wise. However, their facilities with exception of their indoor track and the track stadium are DII (or lower) level. They offer enough sports to meet DI requirements, but no idea if they offer enough scholarship equivalences.

If they made the minimum requirements, and were actually interested in moving soccer, vball, bball, swiming, golf, and XC/indoor/outdoor T&F to the Summit ... they wouldn't be turned down.

No idea if their talent level and attendance level in hockey would warrant consideration for the NCHC, but guessing not.

Also no idea how popular their Canadian rules college football team is ... they play in the Blue Bombers stadium, which is very, very nice (FBS level quality). But guessing they would not have the interest or money to move the team to American rules and MVFC level.

(07-28-2017 09:14 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(07-27-2017 10:47 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  Wouldn't the CCG cost the BSC its playoff bids (see SWAC)? To avoid this wouldn't this mean the season starts in the 2nd to last week of August?

I think it all comes down to if the rules governing the maximum number of games in the regular season are violated. Currently, there are no rules allowing FCS conferences to hold an exempt CCG ... and the reason is that the playoffs take up so many weeks, there's just no room to allow that. In fact, FCS currently only allows 11 regular season games (except when there's an extra week, depending how the calendar works out that year). Though I think there may be a proposal to expand the season to the August weekend you're talking about ("Week 0").

However, if you do a flex-schedule for the last week of the regular season, then technically you can always match the top two teams in the conference for a "defacto CCG". If the conf plays 9 conf games, then it should work out that the highest ranked team (hosting the CCG) would wind up with five home conf games. The negatives of this are: 1) could be a rematch of a regular season game already played, 2) if the same team is the second highest ranked team in consecutive years, it would wind up with only four conf home games in consecutive years, 3) could potentially "screw up" the schedules for the rest of the league, in terms of playing rematches or getting the "fair" number of conf home games in consecutive years.

I think you are 99.9% right. But, there is not an actual rule against CCG in FCS. They just don't make any sense to actually have one. Every school would have to give up their bye week and leave the last regular season weekend open. Nobody would do that.

Correct that there is no rule against branding the last regular season conf game as a "CCG". That's true at the FBS level, too. But no conference, FCS or FBS, has ever done that, to date.

However, there is no rule to allow a FCS conference to hold a CCG that is exempt from the 11 game max (ie, as a 12th game). In the FBS, on the other hand, there is a rule to allow a FBS conference to hold a CCG that is exempt from the 12 game max (ie, as a 13th game). The rule (which was just updated this offseason) requires either: a) two divisions, round-robin play within divisions, and division champions meeting in the CCG, or b) no divisions, complete round-robin in the conference, the top two teams meeting in the CCG.

I'm not sure if an exempt CCG is what the Big Sky commish will be angling for. I think getting to nine Big Sky games in the regular season is her primary focus, for now.

I was semi-serious about U of Manitoba. NAU actually played a football game against them back in the 80's - one half US rules, one half Canadian rules. It was a fun game to watch.

Geographically, they would be a perfect fit, and all four Dakota schools are closer than the most rivals - and the ND schools are closer than any non Manitoba schools (all three of them). And for football, nearest is 8 hours away - only 6 schools play football west of Ontario.

I think they're pretty happy in the Canada West, at least for hockey and football.

Think at best it would be a Summit only deal ... and then I'm just not sure they could afford the move to DI, fees and scholarships wide, let alone their facilities.

http://www.thespectrum.com/story/sports/...522096001/

Good article on the old Great West football conference. Didn't get much acclaim in its day, but modified the whole of FCS with a new class of power teams.

Tim Walsh says UND has the resources to be very good at fb, but many of the posters here seem to disagree, as they think know so much more.

The Blue Bombers stadium is on the U of Manitoba campus.

The U of Winnipeg plays baseball in an NAIA Dakota league. Neither are the least bit interested in the NCAA and can't compete as a DI school anyway under current NCAA rules.

Alberta schools like the U of Alberta and Calgary U might be more interested in a decade.

Manitoba doesn't produce many good fb players, but UND signs the ones that are produced. Their hockey teams aren't really that good either, as major juniors or the NCAA are of much more appealing to the players for development.

What are the penalties to leave the Big Sky and cost to join the Summit?
If Denver and the Summit worked on adding UNC and covered the cost I think they take it.
A core of six would make the conference pretty stable.
Losing PUFW would be a plus if they got six for a core group.
Then a Western expansion would be easier.
Really Dakota four and Denver make Midwestern candidates less likely except for Minnesota call ups.
ORU and Omaha are flight risk but probably not short term.
St Cloud or Duluth would be options B and C after UNC.

The Nodak dream four from the Big Sky would welcome the Denver- UNC trip vs current BSC trips. WIU, ORU and PUFW not so much.

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(07-28-2017 08:29 PM)MJG Wrote:  What are the penalties to leave the Big Sky and cost to join the Summit?
If Denver and the Summit worked on adding UNC and covered the cost I think they take it.
A core of six would make the conference pretty stable.
Losing PUFW would be a plus if they got six for a core group.
Then a Western expansion would be easier.
Really Dakota four and Denver make Midwestern candidates less likely except for Minnesota call ups.
ORU and Omaha are flight risk but probably not short term.
St Cloud or Duluth would be options B and C after UNC.

The Nodak dream four from the Big Sky would welcome the Denver- UNC trip vs current BSC trips. WIU, ORU and PUFW not so much.

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If a Big Sky school gives at least one year for Olympic Sports and two years for football, there is no exit fee. A refundable Summit entrance fee is charged.

IUPUI is paying about $1.5 mill to exit as it gave short notice. IPFW's exit fee will still be $1 mill even if it gives a full years notice.

If Denver sensed that a Summit collapse was imminent, they would now be gone.

I don't really look at the Dakota's as Midwestern like Minnesota or Western like Montana.
Texas is like that kinda in the middle TCU did not seem odd in MWC and would fit in AAC.

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(07-28-2017 08:16 PM)NoDak Wrote:  The Blue Bombers stadium is on the U of Manitoba campus.

The U of Winnipeg plays baseball in an NAIA Dakota league. Neither are the least bit interested in the NCAA and can't compete as a DI school anyway under current NCAA rules.

Alberta schools like the U of Alberta and Calgary U might be more interested in a decade.

Manitoba doesn't produce many good fb players, but UND signs the ones that are produced. Their hockey teams aren't really that good either, as major juniors or the NCAA are of much more appealing to the players for development.

The Wesmen dropped baseball in May.

Instead of an impossible task of getting Big Sky schools to leave, with possible exception of UNC, the best bet is for the Summit to fold.


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(07-28-2017 09:44 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  Instead of an impossible task of getting Big Sky schools to leave, with possible exception of UNC, the best bet is for the Summit to fold.


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BYU-Idaho has more support in eastern Idaho than Idaho St, and BYU-I doesn't even have varsity sports. Why should any Montana school possibly want to hang with ISU?

Well for starters there are more people residing in the small state eof Idaho than there are in all of North and South Dakota combined. Second the population centers of Montana are considerably closer to Idaho and Utah than they are to the population centers of the Dakotas which are 70% living within 50 miles of the eastern borders of those states.

It's also much prettier country than the midwest. But the real reason to stay connected to the west is demographic. CA, AZ, CO, UT, WA, OR, ID, NV, NM have grown from in 1990 to 49.2m people to over 73 m today. These are the feeders for out of state students in their schools. The Dakotas combined have grown too, but they added only about 275,000 in the same time span -- Idaho alone grew 600,000 in the same time span -- two orders of magnitude smaller than the West, and as a percentage 1/3rd the growth rate of the West. Per capita income and wealth have also grown much faster in the West as well.

Nobody in their right mind would shift focus from the West to the Midwest, and especially the thinly populated upper great plains. North Dakota likes to boast it has 462 students in WUE, but California has 17,515, Washington 3,468, Oregon 1,417, Arizona 1,632, Utah 942, Colorado 2,730 ... and Idaho even has 1,789. Clearly looking west makes much more sense than looking east.