(06-22-2017 04:18 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  If people who lose coverage vote democrat, and people who lost the policies they liked and were told they could keep get them back and vote republican, I would guess that would be about a push.

XACLY!

it's always been about the 'numbers'....

(06-22-2017 05:14 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  But conservatives on this forum say that Trump's victory proves a majority of Americans want ACA repealed and replaced.

So why hasn't it happened yet? It's not because some GOP senators are randomly being dicks ...

Because you cannot repeal the law through the reconciliation process and the repubs don't have a filibuster proof 60 votes to repeal it through the normal procedures.. So they cannot repeal the law at all, but they can make changes to it with a simple majority. After 2018, they may pick up enough seats if the dems keep moving left.

(06-22-2017 05:14 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  But conservatives on this forum say that Trump's victory proves a majority of Americans want ACA repealed and replaced.

So why hasn't it happened yet? It's not because some GOP senators are randomly being dicks ...

It's it's because they're feckless cowards. Same reason Trump beat the field of them.

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(06-22-2017 03:54 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 02:26 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  The cat's out of the bag: people who previously weren't covered got coverage, and they like it. Any new policy that ultimately causes them to lose coverage will make them vote against the lawmakers who put the new policy in place.

That's an impossible nut to crack.

I had incredible coverage.

You know that promise: if you like your coverage you can keep your coverage?

yeah, well, it didn't quite work out like that.


So I voted for candidates who promised to repealObamaCare -- like Ted Cruz.

And I see that he's against the plan because it doesn't follow through on the GOP promise to REPEAL OBAMACARE.

Great job, Ted! Stick to your guns.

In other words, Ted Cruz is going to vote to KEEP Obamacare. That's my problem with the cut off your nose to spite your face Republicans. If you can't get 100%, settle for 0%.

(06-22-2017 04:36 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  This is where we need to end up.

1) Preexisting conditions covered. (Americans like it, so we are stuck with it---thats a win for Dems).

2) Mandated Coverage (everyone MUST buy insurance---cant have #1 without #2---another win for the Dems). However, the mandated plan tha everyone gets will be VERY basic and affordable---even for the poor.

3) No more laundry list of covered items in the required coverage plan. We need a very basic economy plan that everyone gets automatically. It will be paid for via payroll taxes. Its basically a tax. The plan will be basic, cheap, and will be limited. It will cover a few doctors visits a year, have a drug benefit, and basically cover nothing else under a 5K dedecutable. Basically, it will protect you from ruin due to catastrophic injuries and cover small day to day issues like a colds, infections, or chronic long term drug needs. Private insurance will be able to sell supplemental insurance that covers what the base plan does not. That way people can customize their plans to fit their budget and their needs/preferences. Its not one size fit all and not one price for all. This is a win for the Republicans.

Its not perfect, but given points #1 and #2 are the new political reality---its all that can be reasonable done at this point to fix the problem.

In other words, Bismarck.

(06-22-2017 06:55 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 04:36 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  This is where we need to end up.

1) Preexisting conditions covered. (Americans like it, so we are stuck with it---thats a win for Dems).

2) Mandated Coverage (everyone MUST buy insurance---cant have #1 without #2---another win for the Dems). However, the mandated plan tha everyone gets will be VERY basic and affordable---even for the poor.

3) No more laundry list of covered items in the required coverage plan. We need a very basic economy plan that everyone gets automatically. It will be paid for via payroll taxes. Its basically a tax. The plan will be basic, cheap, and will be limited. It will cover a few doctors visits a year, have a drug benefit, and basically cover nothing else under a 5K dedecutable. Basically, it will protect you from ruin due to catastrophic injuries and cover small day to day issues like a colds, infections, or chronic long term drug needs. Private insurance will be able to sell supplemental insurance that covers what the base plan does not. That way people can customize their plans to fit their budget and their needs/preferences. Its not one size fit all and not one price for all. This is a win for the Republicans.

Its not perfect, but given points #1 and #2 are the new political reality---its all that can be reasonable done at this point to fix the problem.

In other words, Bismarck.

Didn't the Bismarck sink!?

I guess that is better than disintegrating like Obamacare.

(06-22-2017 06:55 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 03:54 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 02:26 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  The cat's out of the bag: people who previously weren't covered got coverage, and they like it. Any new policy that ultimately causes them to lose coverage will make them vote against the lawmakers who put the new policy in place.

That's an impossible nut to crack.

I had incredible coverage.

You know that promise: if you like your coverage you can keep your coverage?

yeah, well, it didn't quite work out like that.


So I voted for candidates who promised to repealObamaCare -- like Ted Cruz.

And I see that he's against the plan because it doesn't follow through on the GOP promise to REPEAL OBAMACARE.

Great job, Ted! Stick to your guns.

In other words, Ted Cruz is going to vote to KEEP Obamacare. That's my problem with the cut off your nose to spite your face Republicans. If you can't get 100%, settle for 0%.

The bill in question keeps obamacare.

If obamacare is NOT repealed then it's still here.

Don't be fooled by RINOs trying to pull the wool over your eyes.

(06-22-2017 04:13 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 04:07 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 04:05 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 03:54 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 02:26 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  The cat's out of the bag: people who previously weren't covered got coverage, and they like it. Any new policy that ultimately causes them to lose coverage will make them vote against the lawmakers who put the new policy in place.

That's an impossible nut to crack.

I had incredible coverage.

You know that promise: if you like your coverage you can keep your coverage?

yeah, well, it didn't quite work out like that.


So I voted for candidates who promised to repealObamaCare -- like Ted Cruz.

And I see that he's against the plan because it doesn't follow through on the GOP promise to REPEAL OBAMACARE.

Great job, Ted! Stick to your guns.

It never ceases to amaze me that every poster on this site who is a conservative managed to lose their "flawless" and nearly free coverage due to the ACA. The odds are almost unbelievable.

I guess you're not paying attention that the people who are complaining the most tend to be from the same handful of states. Some got screwed more than others.

Well aware...and most all are from states with GOP governors who refused to embrace the law but fought it instead.

Regardless, not all con posters here are from the same place, but nearly all claim they had great coverage with bargain basement prices but no longer do. One even claimed that before the ACA that their insurance was so great that then only paid $15 for everything and magically no one else paid for the remainder of the health care costs as I guess the doctors decided to work for free!

No...I had schitty coverage..but cheap. Now I have schitty coverage and expensive. You do the math RTW. I was fine with the schitty coverage,high deductible and the associated risk before the UCA and still can now if allowed to purchase it. It does not exist anymore.
The UCA is nothing more than another Liberal income redistribution program. Id respect Liberal more if they just embraced it for what it is.

https://youtu.be/dPLrlFL67lo

The left has already won.

You guys are arguing over HOW the government should run healthcare.

The government should have nothing to do with free citizens healthcare.

(06-22-2017 10:48 PM)Claw Wrote:  The left has already won.

You guys are arguing over HOW the government should run healthcare.

The government should have nothing to do with free citizens healthcare.

Agree. Unfortunately, that is the reality right now. We have a turd and the only way to improve it is to polish it.

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The ACA can not be fixed....period. It is a irrevocable flawed piece of legislation. The only saving graces of the GOP plan is that it removes the individual mandate and it gives tax credits by age not income. The ACA will collapse as people just simply refuse to be a part of this nonsense. Hopefully insurance companies will now offer us low cost/high deductible policies again and allow those of us that can tolerate the risk to do so and be left the hell alone.

(06-23-2017 07:13 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  The ACA can not be fixed....period. It is a irrevocable flawed piece of legislation. The only saving graces of the GOP plan is that it removes the individual mandate and it gives tax credits by age not income. The ACA will collapse as people just simply refuse to be a part of this nonsense. Hopefully insurance companies will now offer us low cost/high deductible policies again and allow those of us that can tolerate the risk to do so and be left the hell alone.

The only way to get back to low cost plans is to reduce the costs of medical services. If that is not addressed, you are just shifting sand from one side of the room to the other. You can have a high deductible, but if it cost $100k to have an inpatient procedure and a few nights in a hospital, even for something relatively routine like a child birth, that isn't going to be low cost. I don't know enough about the medical industry to know why or how, but something like a routine child birth should only cost a few thousand... 2 night's stay, a few hours of an OBGYN's time, and hour of an anesthesiologist's time (assuming an epidural is requested) and maybe 8 hours of nurses' time. Doctors are making less than they did 20 years ago and nurses don't make obscene wages either. Where is the money going?

(06-22-2017 04:17 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 04:05 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 03:54 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 02:26 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  The cat's out of the bag: people who previously weren't covered got coverage, and they like it. Any new policy that ultimately causes them to lose coverage will make them vote against the lawmakers who put the new policy in place.

That's an impossible nut to crack.

I had incredible coverage.

You know that promise: if you like your coverage you can keep your coverage?

yeah, well, it didn't quite work out like that.


So I voted for candidates who promised to repealObamaCare -- like Ted Cruz.

And I see that he's against the plan because it doesn't follow through on the GOP promise to REPEAL OBAMACARE.

Great job, Ted! Stick to your guns.

It never ceases to amaze me that seemingly every poster on this site who is a conservative managed to lose their "flawless" and nearly free coverage due to the ACA. The odds are almost unbelievable.

Those darn cadillac plans were awesome.

In 1999 my wife went to her OBGYN when she was pregnant with our daughter. We paid a $20 copay.

Period.

My daughter was born in Feb 2000 and all we paid was $20.

Fast-forward to 2015. One of my coworkers and his wife were having their first child.

After our cadillac plans had been stripped down leaving a shell on blocks, I had to ask him how much they paid.

Over $4,000 out-of-pocket.

What was a $20 charge a decade prior exploded to $4,000 less than 15 years later.

I had the same. The second kid cost me only the cost of the epidural. I won't say it was cheap but it cost less than I'm paying now and my coverage is ****. The only reason I know I have insurance is because I see the deduction from my paycheck.

(06-22-2017 06:55 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 04:36 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  This is where we need to end up.

1) Preexisting conditions covered. (Americans like it, so we are stuck with it---thats a win for Dems).

2) Mandated Coverage (everyone MUST buy insurance---cant have #1 without #2---another win for the Dems). However, the mandated plan tha everyone gets will be VERY basic and affordable---even for the poor.

3) No more laundry list of covered items in the required coverage plan. We need a very basic economy plan that everyone gets automatically. It will be paid for via payroll taxes. Its basically a tax. The plan will be basic, cheap, and will be limited. It will cover a few doctors visits a year, have a drug benefit, and basically cover nothing else under a 5K dedecutable. Basically, it will protect you from ruin due to catastrophic injuries and cover small day to day issues like a colds, infections, or chronic long term drug needs. Private insurance will be able to sell supplemental insurance that covers what the base plan does not. That way people can customize their plans to fit their budget and their needs/preferences. Its not one size fit all and not one price for all. This is a win for the Republicans.

Its not perfect, but given points #1 and #2 are the new political reality---its all that can be reasonable done at this point to fix the problem.

In other words, Bismarck.

It's amazing that we never hear anyone within the beltway utter those words.

(06-23-2017 07:13 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  The ACA can not be fixed....period. It is a irrevocable flawed piece of legislation. The only saving graces of the GOP plan is that it removes the individual mandate and it gives tax credits by age not income. The ACA will collapse as people just simply refuse to be a part of this nonsense. Hopefully insurance companies will now offer us low cost/high deductible policies again and allow those of us that can tolerate the risk to do so and be left the hell alone.

You don't live out in the woods of the Yukon. You live in this country. So you are a socialist, to an extent. You prefer society. That has costs.

So either buck up, and become a true individualist, or pay the costs for living in society.

(06-23-2017 08:27 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(06-23-2017 07:13 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  The ACA can not be fixed....period. It is a irrevocable flawed piece of legislation. The only saving graces of the GOP plan is that it removes the individual mandate and it gives tax credits by age not income. The ACA will collapse as people just simply refuse to be a part of this nonsense. Hopefully insurance companies will now offer us low cost/high deductible policies again and allow those of us that can tolerate the risk to do so and be left the hell alone.

The only way to get back to low cost plans is to reduce the costs of medical services. If that is not addressed, you are just shifting sand from one side of the room to the other. You can have a high deductible, but if it cost $100k to have an inpatient procedure and a few nights in a hospital, even for something relatively routine like a child birth, that isn't going to be low cost. I don't know enough about the medical industry to know why or how, but something like a routine child birth should only cost a few thousand... 2 night's stay, a few hours of an OBGYN's time, and hour of an anesthesiologist's time (assuming an epidural is requested) and maybe 8 hours of nurses' time. Doctors are making less than they did 20 years ago and nurses don't make obscene wages either. Where is the money going?

it's become carte blanche administrative wand wielding....

I've mentioned this too many times....h'burg clinic is buying up real estate left and right....even the privately funded wesley center has grown by leaps....

if it's happening in po-dunk you-s-aye, it's a given it's happening elsewhere....

it didn't take long to turn 0-care into a cash cow cluster****....

and dems say the republicans are only for the rich.......fk'n idiots...

Pre-existing conditions without a mandate is a guarantee of failure.

It creates the double damning conditions of adverse selection and moral hazard.

(06-23-2017 08:52 AM)LeFlâneur Wrote:  Pre-existing conditions without a mandate is a guarantee of failure.

It creates the double damning conditions of adverse selection and moral hazard.

I don't think this is wrong, but it is political suicide to get rid of PEC, so they can't do it.

But getting rid of the mandate is a mandate, by their base, so they have to do it.


On one hand, some people might claim "now people will just refuse to buy health insurance". That is not an invalid claim .... but it also seems to gloss over the fact that without health insurance .... you don't have health insurance. That's quite a risk to take, especially if you have a family ...

(06-23-2017 08:52 AM)LeFlâneur Wrote:  Pre-existing conditions without a mandate is a guarantee of failure.

It creates the double damning conditions of adverse selection and moral hazard.

Taxes in one form or another are mandated. In the end that's where the extra money needed comes from.