https://hbcusports.com/2017/06/20/invest...-Q.twitter


Since full-fledged desegregation that resulted in the influx of black amateur athletes suiting up for predominately white colleges and universities began nearly a half-century ago, HBCUs have struggled to keep in the talent acquisition arms race.

The decline in blue chip athletes has left black colleges behind in generating revenue, landing lucrative TV contracts and winning national championships.

But one person — a brave, forward-thinking soul — believes that HBCUs can be competitive by doing what no other group of universities legally can do.

Paying the athletes.

Longtime critic of the NCAA and San Francisco-based economist Andy Schwarz suggests that an HBCU-exclusive basketball league can be formed with the idea of compensating the America’s best young basketball players.

Probably a good idea, but the issue is how are the going to be able to offer to pay the players enough to keep them out of the NCAA.

Lol

Schwarz has been on any podcast which will take him to (poorly) discuss his proposal. His appearance on Slate's "Hang Up & Listen" wasn't inspiring.

A blue chipper isn't going to an HBCU simply because that school offers $10k on top of a full ride, whereas Duke can "only" offer $4-5k on top of a full ride.

The value of going to Duke for the blue chipper is the chance to be developed into a top draft pick for the NBA, plus a chance to win the national title.

sounds like minor leauge that gets students from a college
50,000 to 100,000 would be paycut after tution & living expenses

If the HBCU's go this route, then they have to cover the full cost of attendance for all of their sports. And I don't see North Carolina taking a road trip to Maryland-Eastern Shore even under this scenario.

Well the HBCU's would have to leave the NCAA, in this scenario. Their best bet would be to go after top players who don't academically qualify for top college teams and give those players something like an NBA-DL experience in lieu of the high-major DI college experience ...

But can't see how this will attract any media attention, simply because the talent on the court might actually be as good as the high-majors. It's just going to be the same fans of HBCU bball teams that currently watch, who will watch these teams.

(06-21-2017 07:46 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Well the HBCU's would have to leave the NCAA, in this scenario. Their best bet would be to go after top players who don't academically qualify for top college teams and give those players something like an NBA-DL experience in lieu of the high-major DI college experience ...

But can't see how this will attract any media attention, simply because the talent on the court might actually be as good as the high-majors. It's just going to be the same fans of HBCU bball teams that currently watch, who will watch these teams.

Agreed. This concept assumes fans watch games to see particular players. They don't, they watch games to see representatives of their schools. As some pro fans describe it, they cheer for the "laundry." Minor league baseball is played at a much higher level than college baseball, for instance, but they don't show the "AAA World Series" on ESPN.

(06-21-2017 08:07 AM)orangefan Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 07:46 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Well the HBCU's would have to leave the NCAA, in this scenario. Their best bet would be to go after top players who don't academically qualify for top college teams and give those players something like an NBA-DL experience in lieu of the high-major DI college experience ...

But can't see how this will attract any media attention, simply because the talent on the court might actually be as good as the high-majors. It's just going to be the same fans of HBCU bball teams that currently watch, who will watch these teams.

Agreed. This concept assumes fans watch games to see particular players. They don't, they watch games to see representatives of their schools. As some pro fans describe it, they cheer for the "laundry." Minor league baseball is played at a much higher level than college baseball, for instance, but they don't show the "AAA World Series" on ESPN.

I do think it's a bit of a mix. The "rooting for laundry" is very strong in college sports, but there's also still an assumption that you're watching the best players at that particular level. (Hence, the "rooting for laundry" is stronger for the P5 compared to the G5, for FBS compared to FCS, for FCS compared to Division III, etc.)

The best comparison to me is actually watching theater. I might not know the names of individual Broadway actors, but I can tell the difference between watching "The Lion King" on Broadway and "The Lion King" as performed by a local community group and the amount that I'll pay for tickets will adjust accordingly. Likewise, most of us can instantly see the difference in the quality of play between FBS and FCS teams (occasional FCS upsets notwithstanding) or the difference between a Major League Baseball team and a minor league baseball team even if we don't know the individual players.

So, I do believe that there's a limit to the "rooting for laundry" element in the sense that fans insist upon seeing a certain level of quality. A community theater version of Ohio State football isn't going to suffice when fans know what the Broadway version looks like. They might not know the names of the offensive linemen, but they know when they're watching a *bad* offensive line.

Frank,

But that theater argument only works when you're talking about a high level league potentially losing quality of play.

If Y of X total people watching HBCU bball now care about quality of play, then the quality of play going up isn't going to bother them. The point is that increasing the quality of play isn't necessarily going to increase that total X number.

I believe that there are very few people watching college bball who aren't loyal to certain schools/confs/brands first, before quality of play comes into the equation. So if they aren't already paying attention to HBCU now, I don't think quality of play alone is going to grab many people's attention.

(06-21-2017 11:27 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 08:07 AM)orangefan Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 07:46 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Well the HBCU's would have to leave the NCAA, in this scenario. Their best bet would be to go after top players who don't academically qualify for top college teams and give those players something like an NBA-DL experience in lieu of the high-major DI college experience ...

But can't see how this will attract any media attention, simply because the talent on the court might actually be as good as the high-majors. It's just going to be the same fans of HBCU bball teams that currently watch, who will watch these teams.

Agreed. This concept assumes fans watch games to see particular players. They don't, they watch games to see representatives of their schools. As some pro fans describe it, they cheer for the "laundry." Minor league baseball is played at a much higher level than college baseball, for instance, but they don't show the "AAA World Series" on ESPN.

I do think it's a bit of a mix. The "rooting for laundry" is very strong in college sports, but there's also still an assumption that you're watching the best players at that particular level. (Hence, the "rooting for laundry" is stronger for the P5 compared to the G5, for FBS compared to FCS, for FCS compared to Division III, etc.)

The best comparison to me is actually watching theater. I might not know the names of individual Broadway actors, but I can tell the difference between watching "The Lion King" on Broadway and "The Lion King" as performed by a local community group and the amount that I'll pay for tickets will adjust accordingly. Likewise, most of us can instantly see the difference in the quality of play between FBS and FCS teams (occasional FCS upsets notwithstanding) or the difference between a Major League Baseball team and a minor league baseball team even if we don't know the individual players.

So, I do believe that there's a limit to the "rooting for laundry" element in the sense that fans insist upon seeing a certain level of quality. A community theater version of Ohio State football isn't going to suffice when fans know what the Broadway version looks like. They might not know the names of the offensive linemen, but they know when they're watching a *bad* offensive line.

Yeah but where is the money coming from to pay these kids until the fan base comes around and starts paying to see them play? Also most of these schools are in the south. Why is anyone in CA going to be interested in watching? Or how about someone in Illinois?

Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to just start another pro basketball league in medium size markets and have no age limit? This would allow you to pick up players not good enough for the NBA and pay players who do not want to go to college but will play in that league for only one year. Just have your draft after the NBA draft and go from there.

This is an interesting idea. I don't have too much to add, but it's interesting.

(06-21-2017 12:12 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to just start another pro basketball league in medium size markets and have no age limit? This would allow you to pick up players not good enough for the NBA and pay players who do not want to go to college but will play in that league for only one year. Just have your draft after the NBA draft and go from there.

I agree, but I don't even believe that would work very well.

On the plus side, the promoters could pick markets where there is space for such teams. There are some decent markets in the SWAC and MEAC, but also some very small ones. My guess is that for basketball, the best markets would be major league markets. In addition, not linking the teams to schools that lack an existing strong fan base would allow the teams try to appeal to a broader group of fans.

Someone could try to do the same thing in football. In that case, I might focus on cities in the South including Texas.

The problem with this approach (and the HBCU idea), though, is that even with a few star players, it would be no different than any other minor league. Fan interest would be limited. It's unlikely to get much of a tv deal, but rather would depend largely on ticket sales. For ticket sales, it would depend on a lot of promotions and marketing gimmicks. Further, the league wouldn't have an event equivalent to the NCAA tournament that drives fan interest.

I think they're targeting HBCU's because that is a group with fairly strong alumni interest in football (not sure about bball), that has arenas, teams, etc already in place, and that might be interested in leaving the NCAA for a better opportunity than being mired down in the low end of DI.

I don't think the investors would have to put up much of anything, other than some money to attract players.


But then the problem comes in of: there won't be any new, additional revenue to be had. And then the business ROI case is dead.

Stillman might have been saved if this was in place. I don't know if it would work, because the HBCUs are scattered from D1, D2, D3, NAIA, NCCAA and NCCAA. Some don't have sports like the Los Angeles school.

(06-21-2017 12:12 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to just start another pro basketball league in medium size markets and have no age limit? This would allow you to pick up players not good enough for the NBA and pay players who do not want to go to college but will play in that league for only one year. Just have your draft after the NBA draft and go from there.

This is actually much cheaper. You already have established brands. No advertising and promotion for the Memphis Hustle G League team, people already have heard of Grambling Tigers and FAMU Rattlers.

Facilities are already in place.

You know this actually would not be a bad idea.......