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Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #141
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
(07-15-2017 10:57 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 06:54 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 04:44 PM)stever20 Wrote:  the problem with Georgetown is sure they might be in the top 20, but they are right now for instance tied for 19th in appearances. Before John Thompson got there, they had exactly 1 NCAA and 2 NIT spots. So really of their 47 wins in the NCAA tourney-16th in basketball right now- all but 5 of them came in a period from 1980-2007.

Also, the stretch of long tournament runs that you mention every decade- it's only 3 decades long. 80's, 90's, and 00's.

I like Georgetown- but they are definitely the program that got right place at the right time with the right person with JT and the start of the Big East. Before the 1979-80 season- Georgetown had all of 2 NCAA tourney wins, and those were back in the 1943 tourney.

Before 1960....Nothing
1980 - 1987... Best team in college basketball
1987 - 1997....Elite Program
1997 - 2007... 1 Final Four and a lot of 'meh'
2007 - 2017... Nothing

That Final Four in 2007 was huge for them. Its really all they have to keep them in the discussion as an elite program. But lots of teams have been to 1 Final Four in the last 20 years.

These stats are fine, but again, IMO they don't mean a whole lot. They might explain 'why' a program has a certain brand stature. They don't define that brand stature.

For whatever reason, deserved or not deserved, Georgetown is still a pretty big college basketball brand name. They are in the second tier with schools like Michigan State, Syracuse, UConn, and Louisville, and a handful of others. Doesn't matter what the stats are, or when they were achieved, that's where they are at right now.

If UConn is second tier, who the f*ck is tier one? They've been the best team in college basketball the last 20 years. And no one really has come close to them.
(This post was last modified: 07-16-2017 11:14 AM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
07-16-2017 11:13 AM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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Post: #142
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
(07-16-2017 11:13 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 10:57 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 06:54 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 04:44 PM)stever20 Wrote:  the problem with Georgetown is sure they might be in the top 20, but they are right now for instance tied for 19th in appearances. Before John Thompson got there, they had exactly 1 NCAA and 2 NIT spots. So really of their 47 wins in the NCAA tourney-16th in basketball right now- all but 5 of them came in a period from 1980-2007.

Also, the stretch of long tournament runs that you mention every decade- it's only 3 decades long. 80's, 90's, and 00's.

I like Georgetown- but they are definitely the program that got right place at the right time with the right person with JT and the start of the Big East. Before the 1979-80 season- Georgetown had all of 2 NCAA tourney wins, and those were back in the 1943 tourney.

Before 1960....Nothing
1980 - 1987... Best team in college basketball
1987 - 1997....Elite Program
1997 - 2007... 1 Final Four and a lot of 'meh'
2007 - 2017... Nothing

That Final Four in 2007 was huge for them. Its really all they have to keep them in the discussion as an elite program. But lots of teams have been to 1 Final Four in the last 20 years.

These stats are fine, but again, IMO they don't mean a whole lot. They might explain 'why' a program has a certain brand stature. They don't define that brand stature.

For whatever reason, deserved or not deserved, Georgetown is still a pretty big college basketball brand name. They are in the second tier with schools like Michigan State, Syracuse, UConn, and Louisville, and a handful of others. Doesn't matter what the stats are, or when they were achieved, that's where they are at right now.

If UConn is second tier, who the f*ck is tier one? They've been the best team in college basketball the last 20 years. And no one really has come close to them.

Duke, North Carolina and Kentucky all say "hello"
07-16-2017 11:19 AM
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stever20 Online
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Post: #143
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
20 year period- that would be between 1998-2017.
Duke 01 10 15
UNC 05 09 17
Kentucky 98 12
UConn 99 04 11 14

So UConn with 4 titles, while Duke and UNC have 3. Kentucky in this great period with "only" 2. You can make a pretty darn good argument that UConn is the best team the last 20 years.

UConn's not a blue blood because basketball is more than just the last 20 years.
07-16-2017 11:26 AM
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BePcr07 Online
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Post: #144
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
(07-16-2017 11:26 AM)stever20 Wrote:  20 year period- that would be between 1998-2017.
Duke 01 10 15
UNC 05 09 17
Kentucky 98 12
UConn 99 04 11 14

So UConn with 4 titles, while Duke and UNC have 3. Kentucky in this great period with "only" 2. You can make a pretty darn good argument that UConn is the best team the last 20 years.

UConn's not a blue blood because basketball is more than just the last 20 years.

Unfortunately for Connecticut, this is the case. While championships are important, there are other factors such as Final Four appearances, conference titles (specifically which conference), etc.
07-16-2017 12:41 PM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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Post: #145
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
UConn missing the tournament four of the past seven years (2017, 2015, 2013, 2010) immensely hurts their perception as a blue blood. Duke has not missed an NCAA Tournament since 1995. Since 1975, UNC has only missed the tournament three times. Kentucky only a couple in that same time frame. Kansas hasn't missed a tournament since 1983.

Blue bloods are long term successful programs, through many coaches and eras. The case can be made that UConn was only successful under Calhoun (and his players). Time will tell though.
07-16-2017 01:01 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #146
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
(07-16-2017 01:01 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  UConn missing the tournament four of the past seven years (2017, 2015, 2013, 2010) immensely hurts their perception as a blue blood. Duke has not missed an NCAA Tournament since 1995. Since 1975, UNC has only missed the tournament three times. Kentucky only a couple in that same time frame. Kansas hasn't missed a tournament since 1983.

Blue bloods are long term successful programs, through many coaches and eras. The case can be made that UConn was only successful under Calhoun (and his players). Time will tell though.

The question of how much time it takes to be considered a "blueblood" will likely be debated until long after I'm dead. Which will be at least how long it will be before schools like UConn and Georgetown can start to be part of the conversation.

Has UCLA been successful long enough to qualify already? They only emerged in the 60's. Duke has been excellent since the 50's at least, but didn't start winning national championships until relatively recently.

Being an old fart, I tend to view only those schools that were already legends by the time I started following them as true bluebloods. Even then I realized that while the San Francisco teams featuring Bill Russell were great, their blood was still very red. It never got bluer. Which is why we need to wait before anointing a team with that title, no matter how good they are or have been recently.

Talk to me about UConn in 2050. Maybe then we'll know.
07-16-2017 01:24 PM
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BePcr07 Online
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Post: #147
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
Perhaps a blue blood should be further defined as a school which is unanimously agreed upon to be a blue blood: North Carolina, Duke, Kentucky, Kansas. UCLA and Indiana seem to have doubters due to a lack of more recent success. Connecticut seems to have doubters due to a lack of historical success.

I'd be in favor of some kind of point system (ex: championship = 10 points, final four appearance = 5 points, conference title = 3 points, etc.) but that can get very subjective and could favor schools like UCLA who have a lot of historical success and Connecticut who have a lot of recent success while possibly penalizing schools who have less championships but have been consistently successful for a long time.
07-16-2017 01:56 PM
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C2__ Offline
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Post: #148
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
(07-16-2017 11:13 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 10:57 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 06:54 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 04:44 PM)stever20 Wrote:  the problem with Georgetown is sure they might be in the top 20, but they are right now for instance tied for 19th in appearances. Before John Thompson got there, they had exactly 1 NCAA and 2 NIT spots. So really of their 47 wins in the NCAA tourney-16th in basketball right now- all but 5 of them came in a period from 1980-2007.

Also, the stretch of long tournament runs that you mention every decade- it's only 3 decades long. 80's, 90's, and 00's.

I like Georgetown- but they are definitely the program that got right place at the right time with the right person with JT and the start of the Big East. Before the 1979-80 season- Georgetown had all of 2 NCAA tourney wins, and those were back in the 1943 tourney.

Before 1960....Nothing
1980 - 1987... Best team in college basketball
1987 - 1997....Elite Program
1997 - 2007... 1 Final Four and a lot of 'meh'
2007 - 2017... Nothing

That Final Four in 2007 was huge for them. Its really all they have to keep them in the discussion as an elite program. But lots of teams have been to 1 Final Four in the last 20 years.

These stats are fine, but again, IMO they don't mean a whole lot. They might explain 'why' a program has a certain brand stature. They don't define that brand stature.

For whatever reason, deserved or not deserved, Georgetown is still a pretty big college basketball brand name. They are in the second tier with schools like Michigan State, Syracuse, UConn, and Louisville, and a handful of others. Doesn't matter what the stats are, or when they were achieved, that's where they are at right now.

If UConn is second tier, who the f*ck is tier one? They've been the best team in college basketball the last 20 years. And no one really has come close to them.

UConn is really good at the crapshoot. They're top 5 for sure but as many titles as they have, they've also missed the Dance 6 times since 1997. That's more than Duke, UNC, Kansas and Kentucky combined.

That's highly inconsistent.
07-16-2017 04:58 PM
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C2__ Offline
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Post: #149
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
(07-16-2017 01:01 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  UConn missing the tournament four of the past seven years (2017, 2015, 2013, 2010) immensely hurts their perception as a blue blood. Duke has not missed an NCAA Tournament since 1995. Since 1975, UNC has only missed the tournament three times. Kentucky only a couple in that same time frame. Kansas hasn't missed a tournament since 1983.

Blue bloods are long term successful programs, through many coaches and eras. The case can be made that UConn was only successful under Calhoun (and his players). Time will tell though.

Heck, Duke hasn't missed the NCAA's in a full Krzyz--Alphabet Soup season since 1983 IIRC. They missed the year he got hurt and had to sit out.
07-16-2017 05:02 PM
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OrangeDude Offline
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Post: #150
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
(07-16-2017 04:58 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(07-16-2017 11:13 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 10:57 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 06:54 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 04:44 PM)stever20 Wrote:  the problem with Georgetown is sure they might be in the top 20, but they are right now for instance tied for 19th in appearances. Before John Thompson got there, they had exactly 1 NCAA and 2 NIT spots. So really of their 47 wins in the NCAA tourney-16th in basketball right now- all but 5 of them came in a period from 1980-2007.

Also, the stretch of long tournament runs that you mention every decade- it's only 3 decades long. 80's, 90's, and 00's.

I like Georgetown- but they are definitely the program that got right place at the right time with the right person with JT and the start of the Big East. Before the 1979-80 season- Georgetown had all of 2 NCAA tourney wins, and those were back in the 1943 tourney.

Before 1960....Nothing
1980 - 1987... Best team in college basketball
1987 - 1997....Elite Program
1997 - 2007... 1 Final Four and a lot of 'meh'
2007 - 2017... Nothing

That Final Four in 2007 was huge for them. Its really all they have to keep them in the discussion as an elite program. But lots of teams have been to 1 Final Four in the last 20 years.

These stats are fine, but again, IMO they don't mean a whole lot. They might explain 'why' a program has a certain brand stature. They don't define that brand stature.

For whatever reason, deserved or not deserved, Georgetown is still a pretty big college basketball brand name. They are in the second tier with schools like Michigan State, Syracuse, UConn, and Louisville, and a handful of others. Doesn't matter what the stats are, or when they were achieved, that's where they are at right now.

If UConn is second tier, who the f*ck is tier one? They've been the best team in college basketball the last 20 years. And no one really has come close to them.

UConn is really good at the crapshoot. They're top 5 for sure but as many titles as they have, they've also missed the Dance 6 times since 1997. That's more than Duke, UNC, Kansas and Kentucky combined.

That's highly inconsistent.

No matter what one says about UConn, I think we can all agree that they make the most out of their opportunities - reaching the Final Four 5 times and winning it all in 4 of them.

Cheers,
Neil
07-16-2017 05:16 PM
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C2__ Offline
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Post: #151
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
Yep, can't say the same for a certain fallen college basketball power.
07-16-2017 05:27 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #152
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
(07-16-2017 11:13 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 10:57 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 06:54 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 04:44 PM)stever20 Wrote:  the problem with Georgetown is sure they might be in the top 20, but they are right now for instance tied for 19th in appearances. Before John Thompson got there, they had exactly 1 NCAA and 2 NIT spots. So really of their 47 wins in the NCAA tourney-16th in basketball right now- all but 5 of them came in a period from 1980-2007.

Also, the stretch of long tournament runs that you mention every decade- it's only 3 decades long. 80's, 90's, and 00's.

I like Georgetown- but they are definitely the program that got right place at the right time with the right person with JT and the start of the Big East. Before the 1979-80 season- Georgetown had all of 2 NCAA tourney wins, and those were back in the 1943 tourney.

Before 1960....Nothing
1980 - 1987... Best team in college basketball
1987 - 1997....Elite Program
1997 - 2007... 1 Final Four and a lot of 'meh'
2007 - 2017... Nothing

That Final Four in 2007 was huge for them. Its really all they have to keep them in the discussion as an elite program. But lots of teams have been to 1 Final Four in the last 20 years.

These stats are fine, but again, IMO they don't mean a whole lot. They might explain 'why' a program has a certain brand stature. They don't define that brand stature.

For whatever reason, deserved or not deserved, Georgetown is still a pretty big college basketball brand name. They are in the second tier with schools like Michigan State, Syracuse, UConn, and Louisville, and a handful of others. Doesn't matter what the stats are, or when they were achieved, that's where they are at right now.

If UConn is second tier, who the f*ck is tier one? They've been the best team in college basketball the last 20 years. And no one really has come close to them.

You keep confusing "accomplishments" with "blue blood", which is about brand and stature and historical legacy. No program that won its first title in 1999 can be a blue blood. You might as well say Notre Dame isn't a football blue blood because they haven't won a title in almost 30 years, or Michigan isn't because they've won just one in the past half-century, which would be absurd, as they are still among the biggest brands in football.

Kentucky, Duke, UNC, UCLA, Indiana, and Kansas are the hoops Blue Bloods. Every hoops fan knows that.
07-16-2017 05:34 PM
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Eldonabe Offline
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Post: #153
RE: Is Georgetown a basketball blue blood?
Why is this such a big deal in the end? Do you get a special key card or some other perk for being a Blue Blood instead of just a great basketball school? This is just another bleeding heart "everyone gets a trophy" kind of title that you all hate but still somehow need to be included in.....

Anyone who follows College Basketball even casually knows who the great programs are right now and historically as well. I highly doubt Alford is walking into a recruit's house with his shiny Blue Blood ring on his finger and winning recruiting battles against Ollie because Ollie doesn't have one of those fancy rings of his own.....

This argument is ALMOST as dumb as the AAC being a P conference....... Actually as I think about it - the AAC is a P conference.......

The P5 is the Devil and the G4 is in heaven - The AAC is in Purgatory
07-17-2017 11:51 AM
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