(06-25-2017 09:37 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  Why shouldn't the AAC call themselves P6? They have higher budgets on average than the G4, with their top budgets comparable to low level P5's. They have more depth & greater potential than any other G4. Outside of Boise who can consistently compete with the AAC depth? Over a ten year period I can see the AAC getting the access bowl slot half the time. Do they have the power of a P5, no but they are the tweener conference. P6 is a brilliant marketing campaign.

They don't have a P5 playoff payout. They don't have a P5 ny6 bowl tie-in. They don't have anywhere near revenue from P5 conference TV contract.

That's why they're G5. Best of G5 probably, but still a wide gap to the P5.

I don't have any strong feelings about the status of the American Athletic Conference, but I did some research and came up with the following numbers:

Average Athletic Revenue of Football Schools (2015-16)
https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/datafile/list

SEC: $121,240,534
Big Ten: $108,269,417
Big 12: $102,170,537
Pac-12: $89,239,736
ACC: $87,031,358
American: $51,685,662
MWC: $36,910,030
MAC: $30,180,173
C-USA: $29,606,192
Sun Belt: $22,425,092

Gap between American and lowest P5: $35,345,696
Gap between American and next highest G5: $14,775,632

Average Football Sagarin Rating (2016)
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaaf/sagarin/2016/team/

ACC: 79.15
SEC: 78.49
Big 12: 76.03
Pac-12: 75.26
Big Ten: 74.13
American: 66.87
MWC: 62.58
MAC: 59.14
Sun Belt: 59.12
C-USA: 57.50

Gap between American and lowest P5: 7.26
Gap between American and next highest G5: 4.29

It would seem that while the American is a cut above the rest of the G5, it still has more in common with the G5 than the P5.

At the end of the day, you can call yourself the Mega Ultra Super Power Conference 1 if you like but all that actually matters for conferences is: Do you sell a product that lots of people want to watch, yes or no?

That's the only criteria for being a power conference

All the money, TV deals etc come from being able to answer "yes" to that one question

(06-20-2017 10:03 AM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(06-20-2017 09:53 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  All the "former BCS member in American" are misleading. It was a one year overlap, and the BCS status had nothing to do w/ the team mentioned.

The same goes for Temple and Tulane. Temple was an outlier in the BE, so much so that they got the boot. Yes, Temple was brought back as WVU's replacement, but the conference had been completely gutted w/ WVU gone and Pitt and SU waiting for their 2 years to expire. As for Tulane, I love the school, but you might as well include Chicago and Sawanee.

But the SWC members, BE members, and Navy are legit - albeit, Navy is built to win in a different era.

Navy is built to win now. They have had a remarkable run the past 10-15 years. If you, for example only, put them in the ACC, they'd be competitive year in and year out. I know that sounds outrageous, but it's true.

I agree with this. There is remarkable amnesia about Navy on this board. For the first 40 years I followed college football, from basically 1970 - 2010, Navy, like Army, was regarded as a basket-case program from a big-time perspective, a team you scheduled as a breather or automatic win. A team with hopelessy undersized players playing an antiquated system. Sure, we all tipped our hat to Navy (and Army) from a "respect the armed forces perspective", but from a purely football perspective they were regarded as Cupcake City.

Every year, Notre Dame had to fend off criticism of continuing to play Navy because everyone thought it was a patsy game.

(06-26-2017 05:34 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  I don't have any strong feelings about the status of the American Athletic Conference, but I did some research and came up with the following numbers:

.....

Gap between American and lowest P5: 7.26
Gap between American and next highest G5: 4.29

It would seem that while the American is a cut above the rest of the G5, it still has more in common with the G5 than the P5.

Yes, and throw in football attendance and you see the same thing: The AAC is about 1/3 of the way between the lowest P5 and highest other G4.

Still more in common with the other G5 than the P5.

(06-25-2017 11:25 PM)ColKurtz Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 09:37 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  Why shouldn't the AAC call themselves P6? They have higher budgets on average than the G4, with their top budgets comparable to low level P5's. They have more depth & greater potential than any other G4. Outside of Boise who can consistently compete with the AAC depth? Over a ten year period I can see the AAC getting the access bowl slot half the time. Do they have the power of a P5, no but they are the tweener conference. P6 is a brilliant marketing campaign.

They don't have a P5 playoff payout. They don't have a P5 ny6 bowl tie-in. They don't have anywhere near revenue from P5 conference TV contract.

That's why they're G5. Best of G5 probably, but still a wide gap to the P5.

The AAC is the 6th conference by just about every metric, if not all. According to a link someone posted in another thread awhile ago, UCONN has greater athletic revenue than WF. With an ACC payout they would be no worse than mid pack in the ACC right now.

(06-26-2017 09:02 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  The AAC is the 6th conference by just about every metric, if not all. According to a link someone posted in another thread awhile ago, UCONN has greater athletic revenue than WF. With an ACC payout they would be no worse than mid pack in the ACC right now.

I assume you are talking about revenue and not wins? By the [football] wins metric - they would be fighting with BC for a ZERO win season.

(06-26-2017 09:02 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  The AAC is the 6th conference by just about every metric, if not all. According to a link someone posted in another thread awhile ago, UCONN has greater athletic revenue than WF. With an ACC payout they would be no worse than mid pack in the ACC right now.

Well, in terms of metrics like "bowl games won" and "Access Bowl Bids" we aren't the 6th conference.

But, even if we are on most metrics the 6th conference, that doesn't mean we are the 6th Power conference. Power status is determined by things we don't have, like a $20m per school media deal and automatic champ placement in an NY6 bowl.

This is a completely arbitrary discussion until some 'decider' decides the following:

What is the metric that defines P status: on the field, facilities, TV $$$, ratings, attendance... and for each, what is the dividing line?

I say again, the casual fan is not tracking TV $$, or anything else so wonkish... The casual fan sees the AAC routinely beat 'Power' schools, and intuitively knows that the P5/G5 line is a made up fantasy. Otherwise how could UCF and Houston (and Boise) knock off Power elite in NY bowls?

I admit the 'practical' line is in the contract bowls and TV$$... but the point is, for now there is clear and obvious overlap between the AAC and the P conferences. Not separation. Anyone who does not want to admit that is simply being political or stubborn.

Any of you who bust the AAC for attempting to change the narrative to P6... Are YOU accepting the separation? If so, go ahead and admit you can't complete and form your own 'G' National Championship. I applaud the AAC for trying to keep up with the big boys.

(06-26-2017 10:09 AM)Bull Wrote:  I say again, the casual fan is not tracking TV $$, or anything else so wonkish... The casual fan sees the AAC routinely beat 'Power' schools, and intuitively knows that the P5/G5 line is a made up fantasy. Otherwise how could UCF and Houston (and Boise) knock off Power elite in NY bowls?

I admit the 'practical' line is in the contract bowls and TV$$... but the point is, for now there is clear and obvious overlap between the AAC and the P conferences. Not separation.

Do you think that in the mind of the casual fan that the AAC is regarded as being in the same group as the SEC, B1G, etc. and not in the same group as the MWC, Conference USA, etc.?

Seriously? IMO, that is a fantasy. To the great mass of casual fans, the AAC is clearly lumped in with the lesser group.

(06-26-2017 10:09 AM)Bull Wrote:  This is a completely arbitrary discussion until some 'decider' decides the following:

What is the metric that defines P status: on the field, facilities, TV $$$, ratings, attendance... and for each, what is the dividing line?

I say again, the casual fan is not tracking TV $$, or anything else so wonkish... The casual fan sees the AAC routinely beat 'Power' schools, and intuitively knows that the P5/G5 line is a made up fantasy. Otherwise how could UCF and Houston (and Boise) knock off Power elite in NY bowls?

I admit the 'practical' line is in the contract bowls and TV$$... but the point is, for now there is clear and obvious overlap between the AAC and the P conferences. Not separation. Anyone who does not want to admit that is simply being political or stubborn.

Any of you who bust the AAC for attempting to change the narrative to P6... Are YOU accepting the separation? If so, go ahead and admit you can't complete and form your own 'G' National Championship. I applaud the AAC for trying to keep up with the big boys.

You don't get to compete for power status. Sorry. The separation exists in brands. ESPN is paying for those brands so the conferences in which those brands exist keeps all the money. According to the NCAA we're on equal footing. The rules (supposedly) apply the same for everyone. So what are you asking for when you say you want to be considered a power conference? Money. It's 100% about money.

(06-26-2017 10:15 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-26-2017 10:09 AM)Bull Wrote:  I say again, the casual fan is not tracking TV $$, or anything else so wonkish... The casual fan sees the AAC routinely beat 'Power' schools, and intuitively knows that the P5/G5 line is a made up fantasy. Otherwise how could UCF and Houston (and Boise) knock off Power elite in NY bowls?

I admit the 'practical' line is in the contract bowls and TV$$... but the point is, for now there is clear and obvious overlap between the AAC and the P conferences. Not separation.

Do you think that in the mind of the casual fan that the AAC is regarded as being in the same group as the SEC, B1G, etc. and not in the same group as the MWC, Conference USA, etc.?

Seriously? IMO, that is a fantasy. To the great mass of casual fans, the AAC is clearly lumped in with the lesser group.

Define 'In the same group'. Seriously, that matters. When Houston beats FSU, or a ranked Louisville, or UCF beats Baylor... the answer is that there is no separation, clear overlap. If there was separation, we would NEVER be able to beat ranked P5 opponents in major bowls. That's their BEST teams we are playing.

Don't misquote me in an attempt to be inflammatory... the usual MO. I'm not saying the AAC is the same as the SEC. I'm saying that, yes to the casual fan, they do realize there is not a 'separation'. Hell that's obvious to anyone willing to be honest.

(06-26-2017 10:26 AM)Bull Wrote:  

(06-26-2017 10:15 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-26-2017 10:09 AM)Bull Wrote:  I say again, the casual fan is not tracking TV $$, or anything else so wonkish... The casual fan sees the AAC routinely beat 'Power' schools, and intuitively knows that the P5/G5 line is a made up fantasy. Otherwise how could UCF and Houston (and Boise) knock off Power elite in NY bowls?

I admit the 'practical' line is in the contract bowls and TV$$... but the point is, for now there is clear and obvious overlap between the AAC and the P conferences. Not separation.

Do you think that in the mind of the casual fan that the AAC is regarded as being in the same group as the SEC, B1G, etc. and not in the same group as the MWC, Conference USA, etc.?

Seriously? IMO, that is a fantasy. To the great mass of casual fans, the AAC is clearly lumped in with the lesser group.

Define 'In the same group'. Seriously, that matters. When Houston beats FSU, or a ranked Louisville, or UCF beats Baylor... the answer is that there is no separation, clear overlap.

Don't misquote me. I'm not saying the AAC is the same as the SEC. I'm saying that, yes to the casual fan, they do realize there is not a 'separation'. Hell that's obvious to anyone willing to be honest.

You're still seen as "Giant Killers" and not "Giants"

Especially when the coaches that got you that success promptly leave for a better job.

(06-26-2017 10:28 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(06-26-2017 10:26 AM)Bull Wrote:  

(06-26-2017 10:15 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-26-2017 10:09 AM)Bull Wrote:  I say again, the casual fan is not tracking TV $$, or anything else so wonkish... The casual fan sees the AAC routinely beat 'Power' schools, and intuitively knows that the P5/G5 line is a made up fantasy. Otherwise how could UCF and Houston (and Boise) knock off Power elite in NY bowls?

I admit the 'practical' line is in the contract bowls and TV$$... but the point is, for now there is clear and obvious overlap between the AAC and the P conferences. Not separation.

Do you think that in the mind of the casual fan that the AAC is regarded as being in the same group as the SEC, B1G, etc. and not in the same group as the MWC, Conference USA, etc.?

Seriously? IMO, that is a fantasy. To the great mass of casual fans, the AAC is clearly lumped in with the lesser group.

Define 'In the same group'. Seriously, that matters. When Houston beats FSU, or a ranked Louisville, or UCF beats Baylor... the answer is that there is no separation, clear overlap.

Don't misquote me. I'm not saying the AAC is the same as the SEC. I'm saying that, yes to the casual fan, they do realize there is not a 'separation'. Hell that's obvious to anyone willing to be honest.

You're still seen as "Giant Killers" and not "Giants"

Especially when the coaches that got you that success promptly leave for a better job.

Depends on how often. If we can kill the Giant... routinely... what does that say?

You make a good point on coaching, but as I said, we're not claiming to be the SEC here... words matter.

The casual fan does not "intuitively know that the P5/G5 line is a made up fantasy."

The casual fan follows the P5/G5 line, because the media feeds them so.

(06-26-2017 10:47 AM)Bull Wrote:  

(06-26-2017 10:28 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(06-26-2017 10:26 AM)Bull Wrote:  

(06-26-2017 10:15 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-26-2017 10:09 AM)Bull Wrote:  I say again, the casual fan is not tracking TV $$, or anything else so wonkish... The casual fan sees the AAC routinely beat 'Power' schools, and intuitively knows that the P5/G5 line is a made up fantasy. Otherwise how could UCF and Houston (and Boise) knock off Power elite in NY bowls?

I admit the 'practical' line is in the contract bowls and TV$$... but the point is, for now there is clear and obvious overlap between the AAC and the P conferences. Not separation.

Do you think that in the mind of the casual fan that the AAC is regarded as being in the same group as the SEC, B1G, etc. and not in the same group as the MWC, Conference USA, etc.?

Seriously? IMO, that is a fantasy. To the great mass of casual fans, the AAC is clearly lumped in with the lesser group.

Define 'In the same group'. Seriously, that matters. When Houston beats FSU, or a ranked Louisville, or UCF beats Baylor... the answer is that there is no separation, clear overlap.

Don't misquote me. I'm not saying the AAC is the same as the SEC. I'm saying that, yes to the casual fan, they do realize there is not a 'separation'. Hell that's obvious to anyone willing to be honest.

You're still seen as "Giant Killers" and not "Giants"

Especially when the coaches that got you that success promptly leave for a better job.

Depends on how often. If we can kill the Giant... routinely... what does that say?

You make a good point on coaching, but as I said, we're not claiming to be the SEC here... words matter.

Well, when you get to the point where you routinely are "killing giants" I imagine the P5 will rip your conference apart as opposed to promoting the entire league.

(06-26-2017 10:26 AM)Bull Wrote:  Define 'In the same group'. Seriously, that matters. When Houston beats FSU, or a ranked Louisville, or UCF beats Baylor... the answer is that there is no separation, clear overlap. If there was separation, we would NEVER be able to beat ranked P5 opponents in major bowls. That's their BEST teams we are playing.

Don't misquote me in an attempt to be inflammatory... the usual MO. I'm not saying the AAC is the same as the SEC. I'm saying that, yes to the casual fan, they do realize there is not a 'separation'. Hell that's obvious to anyone willing to be honest.

I live in P5 country and no, not a single college football fan I've ever run in to regards the AAC as being in the same competitive group as the rest of the P5. That idea has no traction whatsoever. Single games don't matter. E.g., in college baseball this year, the AAC's Tulane swept LSU, playing for the national title right now, in their two games, but nobody in their right mind regards AAC baseball as anywhere near the level of SEC baseball.

Just look at this past season, which was easily the best the AAC has had overall, and yet looking at the final AP top 25, every P5 conference had at least *three* teams ranked ahead of the first AAC team, our USF at #19, and two of them had four.

That's overlap all right - overlap between us and the rest of the G5. And that's how just about everyone who isn't an AAC homer sees it.

(06-26-2017 01:08 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-26-2017 10:26 AM)Bull Wrote:  Define 'In the same group'. Seriously, that matters. When Houston beats FSU, or a ranked Louisville, or UCF beats Baylor... the answer is that there is no separation, clear overlap. If there was separation, we would NEVER be able to beat ranked P5 opponents in major bowls. That's their BEST teams we are playing.

Don't misquote me in an attempt to be inflammatory... the usual MO. I'm not saying the AAC is the same as the SEC. I'm saying that, yes to the casual fan, they do realize there is not a 'separation'. Hell that's obvious to anyone willing to be honest.

I live in P5 country and no, not a single college football fan I've ever run in to regards the AAC as being in the same competitive group as the rest of the P5. That idea has no traction whatsoever. Single games don't matter. E.g., in college baseball this year, the AAC's Tulane swept LSU, playing for the national title right now, in their two games, but nobody in their right mind regards AAC baseball as anywhere near the level of SEC baseball.

Just look at this past season, which was easily the best the AAC has had overall, and yet looking at the final AP top 25, every P5 conference had at least *three* teams ranked ahead of the first AAC team, our USF at #19, and two of them had four.

That's overlap all right - overlap between us and the rest of the G5. And that's how just about everyone who isn't an AAC homer sees it.

Do all of these people that you have run into give you strange looks when you start asking this completely random question? I find this very odd.

(06-26-2017 10:47 AM)Bull Wrote:  Depends on how often. If we can kill the Giant... routinely... what does that say?

I made this same point in another thread and the same holds true here for the most part.

Winning one game basically validates the "on any given Sunday" theory. Winning every week in a P5 conference is a different story. None of you AAC'ers are walking into any of those conferences and just start winning conference titles - you would be hard pressed to go .500.

Also there is no magic metric that defines P5 over the G5 - they just are what they are - everyone like to talk about TV numbers and metropolitan access blah blah blah.
Frank the Tank said it best in the Blue Blood argument, having money and having old money are two different things. Even if the TV gods come down and give you a $10M per school per year deal (which is beyond laughable and probably at least twice what you will actually get) You still can't just join the club because you are rich.

There is no way in f-ing hell the AAC will get a seat at that table - EVER - there is too much money being horded by the P5 to want to slice up another serving. If a team like Houston (for example) was worthy of a P5 invite they would be offered and Houston would jump at it in a nano-second no matter how good the AAC gets. Let's see Houston (or any of you) have the balls to say no to a P5 invite

Can you be a P6 when you agree to play bodybag games?

http://www.fbschedules.com/2017/06/repor...-schedule/

Quote:The UConn Huskies have added the Clemson Tigers to their 2021 football schedule, according to a document in UConn’s Board of Trustees upcoming meeting agenda.

Quote:According to the document, UConn will travel to take on Clemson at Memorial Stadium on Sept. 11, 2021. The Huskies will receive a $1.2 million guarantee for the game, per the document.