I would like to know what exactly Leftist believe in? What is their political philosophy? I can explain mine very simply. Relying on big Government programs is not the road to prosperity or to freedom. When you rely on big government programs, that means the government owns you. This is certainly not the desired outcome for a peoples that claim to value freedom. So lets put it out there....What is it you stand for?

Violence

To be fair let's have a real dialogue. Conservatives; what is it you believe in? I have explained what I believe the conservative message is. How about the rest of you? This I believe is a way to begin to come together and hopefully find a method of compromise. The journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step: Confucius, I believe, although I could be wrong about that.

Their agenda is truth and everything else are lies, personal attacks and have no place in society.

Taxing people and entities and using that money to enforce their will upon those people and entities. And oh yes, enriching themselves in the process.

(06-18-2017 03:29 PM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  Taxing people and entities and using that money to enforce their will upon those people and entities. And oh yes, enriching themselves in the process.

To be fair, I would hope people on the left, could explain their own beliefs. If you are on the right then by all means, explain what that means to you.

(06-18-2017 03:25 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  To be fair let's have a real dialogue. Conservatives; what is it you believe in? I have explained what I believe the conservative message is. How about the rest of you? This I believe is a way to begin to come together and hopefully find a method of compromise. The journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step: Confucius, I believe, although I could be wrong about that.

1 - All people have innate rights as captured in the Bill of rights
2 - The only purpose of the federal government is to prevent states or other people from stepping on our rights, and to protect / negotiate against /with foreign powers.

(06-18-2017 04:49 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(06-18-2017 03:25 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  To be fair let's have a real dialogue. Conservatives; what is it you believe in? I have explained what I believe the conservative message is. How about the rest of you? This I believe is a way to begin to come together and hopefully find a method of compromise. The journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step: Confucius, I believe, although I could be wrong about that.

1 - All people have innate rights as captured in the Bill of rights
2 - The only purpose of the federal government is to prevent states or other people from stepping on our rights, and to protect / negotiate against /with foreign powers.

This.

The bigger question is: Why am I not a republican. I see nearly everything the GOP does as a sellout to special interests/big business. Republican politicians in my mind only care about serving corporations than being American. Today one of the news stories I saw I reddit was a GOP state assemblyman who had lobbied hard for deregulation for daycare centers despite his owning a daycare center himself and a child in the care of one of his daycare centers died. That pretty much sums up exactly why I think so low of Republicans.

the republicans ***** about the libs and wealth redistribution, but we already saw a massive change in wealth redistribution. but we just spent the last 40 years undergoing a massive wealth redistribution. republicans complaining about "not taking my money" but they have literally robbed pension funds of public employees only to use that very money for a taxcut for the wealthy. So I see nothing but a shitload of hypocrisy and their only caring about their own talking points specifically when it suits them and ignoring said talking points when it doesn't. see the "small govt" abortion ban supporters.

as to why I'm a liberal: while I see the issue of big federal govt suppressing the rights of the people, I also see an even bigger threat of local govt suppressing the rights of the people. It's a logical fallacy to say it happens to one but not the other. For example that Missouri teen rape case where this small rural town was described as a lawless hellhole. Or the historical issues of the states playing the largest role in civil rights violations. at least the federal govt which answers to the entire nation will be a medium on overreach rather than going batshit crazy. a strong federal govt has historically been the counterweight to govt overreach on the state/local level.

and honestly I just understand basic math. spending on numerous programs actually nets us more money in return. want to pay for low cost contraception? you will save money doing it given that it will lower costs associated with unintended pregnancies that far exceed proving birth control.

business can't afford a $1 minimum wage hike? well let's see: say a small business has 7 employees that work a total of 8 hours each. If a business is going to go broke over that $56 dollars then clearly the problem is not the minimum wage increase.

I believe: In a govt that protects the consumer in regards to business and protects our rights in regards to govt.

(06-18-2017 05:00 PM)john01992 Wrote:  business can't afford a $1 minimum wage hike? well let's see: say a small business has 7 employees that work a total of 8 hours each. If a business is going to go broke over that $56 dollars then clearly the problem is not the minimum wage increase.

What percent of actual businesses average 8 hours per employee? seriously....

(06-18-2017 05:06 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(06-18-2017 05:00 PM)john01992 Wrote:  business can't afford a $1 minimum wage hike? well let's see: say a small business has 7 employees that work a total of 8 hours each. If a business is going to go broke over that $56 dollars then clearly the problem is not the minimum wage increase.

What percent of actual businesses average 8 hours per employee? seriously....

why does it matter? it comes down to $1/hr per employee which for a small business isn't going to be anything but an incredibly small percentage of the actual revenue.

(06-18-2017 05:15 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(06-18-2017 05:06 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(06-18-2017 05:00 PM)john01992 Wrote:  business can't afford a $1 minimum wage hike? well let's see: say a small business has 7 employees that work a total of 8 hours each. If a business is going to go broke over that $56 dollars then clearly the problem is not the minimum wage increase.

What percent of actual businesses average 8 hours per employee? seriously....

why does it matter? it comes down to $1/hr per employee which for a small business isn't going to be anything but an incredibly small percentage of the actual revenue.

Well first let's dissect this straw man a bit... Where is the minimum wage going up by only a dollar? most place are going from 4-5

(06-18-2017 05:19 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(06-18-2017 05:15 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(06-18-2017 05:06 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(06-18-2017 05:00 PM)john01992 Wrote:  business can't afford a $1 minimum wage hike? well let's see: say a small business has 7 employees that work a total of 8 hours each. If a business is going to go broke over that $56 dollars then clearly the problem is not the minimum wage increase.

What percent of actual businesses average 8 hours per employee? seriously....

why does it matter? it comes down to $1/hr per employee which for a small business isn't going to be anything but an incredibly small percentage of the actual revenue.

Well first let's dissect this straw man a bit... Where is the minimum wage going up by only a dollar? most place are going from 4-5

um link to that assertion? I was thinking places like Ohio and the flyover states where the only time it is ever brought up is in the context of very small increases. and let's face it: if it is going up by $4-5 it's either long long overdue or in a high cost of living state if not both.

I mean seriously you see headlines like this:

No full-time minimum-wage worker can afford a 2-bedroom apartment in any US state.

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/12/nobody-ma...tment.html

(06-18-2017 05:00 PM)john01992 Wrote:  The bigger question is: Why am I not a republican. I see nearly everything the GOP does as a sellout to special interests/big business. Republican politicians in my mind only care about serving corporations than being American. Today one of the news stories I saw I reddit was a GOP state assemblyman who had lobbied hard for deregulation for daycare centers despite his owning a daycare center himself and a child in the care of one of his daycare centers died. That pretty much sums up exactly why I think so low of Republicans.

This perhaps explains why you don't like Republicans. But it does little to explain why you are a leftist.

the republicans ***** about the libs and wealth redistribution, but we already saw a massive change in wealth redistribution. but we just spent the last 40 years undergoing a massive wealth redistribution. republicans complaining about "not taking my money" but they have literally robbed pension funds of public employees only to use that very money for a taxcut for the wealthy. So I see nothing but a shitload of hypocrisy and their only caring about their own talking points specifically when it suits them and ignoring said talking points when it doesn't. see the "small govt" abortion ban supporters.

Do you really believe the Republicans have controlled our Government for the last 40 years?

as to why I'm a liberal: while I see the issue of big federal govt suppressing the rights of the people, I also see an even bigger threat of local govt suppressing the rights of the people. It's a logical fallacy to say it happens to one but not the other. For example that Missouri teen rape case where this small rural town was described as a lawless hellhole. Or the historical issues of the states playing the largest role in civil rights violations. at least the federal govt which answers to the entire nation will be a medium on overreach rather than going batshit crazy. a strong federal govt has historically been the counterweight to govt overreach on the state/local level.

What happens when it's small community and state governments that are the counterweight to a far reaching federal government? As I believe it is today. After all it's the federal government that is running up all the debt. A pox on both houses.

and honestly I just understand basic math. spending on numerous programs actually nets us more money in return. want to pay for low cost contraception? you will save money doing it given that it will lower costs associated with unintended pregnancies that far exceed proving birth control.

Again as in the previous point, if this is the case please explain our massive debt.

business can't afford a $1 minimum wage hike? well let's see: say a small business has 7 employees that work a total of 8 hours each. If a business is going to go broke over that $56 dollars then clearly the problem is not the minimum wage increase.

But we are talking about a weeks worth of wages and not one day. And....there is a lot more that goes into an employee benefit package than mere wages.

I believe: In a govt that protects the consumer in regards to business and protects our rights in regards to govt.
Your first point I tend to agree with. Your second point not so much.

the fed overrules the state. so no state govt can be a counterweight to an overreaching federal govt. only the SCOTUS can check the govt and the leg and exec check each other.

If you want to blame our debt: that would be the republicans and their taxcuts for the rich which caused that in the firstplace and part D. what's going to keep it going is medical costs which I put the blame squarely on republicans as their "protecting corporate interests" bulls*** makes them unwilling to tackle the real issue of healthcare which is the massive costs of providing it. so instead we only get half measure fixes where we can tackle coverage for americans but not cost of coverage.

your "fix" would be to just cut coverage to protect the medical care lobby rather than taking on that lobby directly and the net result is thousands of americans die because you would rather do that than place a tax burden on the rich which is a choice given to you only because you don't want to challenge a massive corporate lobby.

It Depends on the issue. I know you think all liberals fall in line with party platform but that is just ridiculous.

I do share some positions with cons and unlike a lot of republicans I'm not ashamed to admit the other side has some good ideas.

Im...
Pro second amendment
Pro death penalty
I agree with the decision to go into Iraq but not for the dumbed down reasons Bush gave to the American people
Very capitalistic but don't agree with unfettered free market capitalism
I think that we can and should have social programs without going full retard and becoming a socialist country
If your gay and want to get married I don't feel like its my place to tell you no.
Pro choice
It's important to me we remain secular and religion should have no place in government
I believe in climate change
Trickle down economics is irrational
I believe the main contributor to illegal immigration is the lack of a legitimate path to citizenship, especially for the illegals already here.
I believe flat taxes disproportionately hurt the poor
We should join every other industrialised nation and provide healthcare for our citizens
I feel social justice warriors are ruining the ideology narrative of my party akin to the kkk and republicans
I want money out of politics
I think globalisation is a very good thing even though it comes with new challenges

Most importantly I think that identity politics and the factionistic environment in government is hurting our country and hate that scoring political points has become more important than effectively running our country, compromise should not be a dirty word.

If you want to know my view on any other specific issue just ask.

(06-18-2017 05:25 PM)john01992 Wrote:  um link to that assertion?

Lighten up francis, I'm simply asking a question. I *thought* most onimum wafges were going up over several years by far more than $1

Minnesota is going up by about 3.50$ an hour between 2013 and 2018.

Quote:I was thinking places like Ohio and the flyover states where the only time it is ever brought up is in the context of very small increases. and let's face it: if it is going up by $4-5 it's either long long overdue or in a high cost of living state if not both.

And as a republican I am happy to let the people of Ohio do as they wish with their minimum wage.

Quote:No full-time minimum-wage worker can afford a 2-bedroom apartment in any US state.

The *average* apartment in Wichita is $623... That would leave a full time minimum wage worker with 630$ a month after they pay their rent (157$ a week)

So that statement is factually incorrect.

I feel social justice warriors are ruining the ideology narrative of my party akin to the kkk and republicans

holy F*** this ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

(06-18-2017 05:46 PM)john01992 Wrote:  If you want to blame our debt: that would be the republicans and their taxcuts for the rich

Are you saying our tax receipts are down?

(06-18-2017 05:56 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  The *average* apartment in Wichita is $623... That would leave a full time minimum wage worker with 630$ a month after they pay their rent (157$ a week)

So that statement is factually incorrect.

go read that link I posted which you seem keen on disregarding.

and exhibit A as to why I think the cons on here are total ------------- and hence the reason I'm not one of them.