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Minnesota officer acquitted
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rath v2.0 Offline
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Post: #161
RE: Minnesota officer acquitted
(06-21-2017 07:15 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(06-21-2017 07:04 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  
(06-21-2017 09:37 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(06-21-2017 09:18 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(06-21-2017 09:06 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  The threat isn't totally eliminated until they are disarmed and secured. Period.

The threat was totally eliminated and secured after the first shot. Beyond doubt totally eliminated and secured after the seven shots.

It would've looked better if he tried to do more to help the situation, after those shots were fired.

I'm sorry.....I must have missed it. How much law enforcement experience do you have again? What about emergency trauma experience?

1Sgt Bradley Kasal, USMC, was wounded seven times by an insurgent's machine gun, a much more powerful weapon than any sidearm carried by law enforcement today, AND by 43 pieces of shrapnel from a grenade and still killed insurgents. Here's a picture of him being carried out of the house he was wounded in between 45 minutes to an hour AFTER he was wounded and BEFORE receiving any medical attention.
[Image: 6tN4hWk.jpg]

Notice what's in his hand? He's been shot seven times, hit with 43 pieces of shrapnel, lost over half of his total volume of blood while bleeding for close to an hour and still could put three in your center mass if he had to.

That is one bad mo-effer.
Indeed he is. He's currently the SGT Major of the I Marine Expeditionary Force.

Sgt Majors are made of titanium frames with black rhinoceros hide stretched over it.
06-22-2017 09:56 AM
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Bull_Is_Back Offline
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Post: #162
RE: Minnesota officer acquitted
(06-22-2017 09:44 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  I disagree. If he hadn't told Yanez that he had a gun in his pocket, then none of this might have even happened.

And if he had driven down a different street, then none of this might have even happened.

You can't fix this from happening in the future by saying "he should not have told the cop" or "what if"

You fix this by finding the moment where this broke down and what caused it. Yanez gave ambiguous directions, that's where you fix this.
06-22-2017 09:59 AM
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ark30inf Offline
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Post: #163
RE: Minnesota officer acquitted
(06-22-2017 09:59 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  
(06-22-2017 09:44 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  I disagree. If he hadn't told Yanez that he had a gun in his pocket, then none of this might have even happened.

And if he had driven down a different street, then none of this might have even happened.

You can't fix this from happening in the future by saying "he should not have told the cop" or "what if"

You fix this by finding the moment where this broke down and what caused it. Yanez gave ambiguous directions, that's where you fix this.
This.

There also may need to be changes to required CCW training to reinforce exactly how you deal with police while carrying and its importance.
06-22-2017 10:13 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #164
RE: Minnesota officer acquitted
(06-22-2017 09:59 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  You can't fix this from happening in the future by saying "he should not have told the cop" or "what if"

You fix this by finding the moment where this broke down and what caused it. Yanez gave ambiguous directions, that's where you fix this.

I don't disagree that your proposed fix is the correct way to fix it.

But you're absolutely wrong to say that not volunteering the info can't have the same effect .... and I can, unfortunately, very much see black men who are armed taking this stance ...
(This post was last modified: 06-22-2017 10:21 AM by MplsBison.)
06-22-2017 10:20 AM
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Bull_Is_Back Offline
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Post: #165
RE: Minnesota officer acquitted
(06-22-2017 10:20 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  But you're absolutely wrong to say that not volunteering the info can't have the same effect .... and I can, unfortunately, very much see black men who are armed taking this stance ...

I never said it could not have changed things, but it also could have led to the same conclusion if his id was in the same pocket as his gun... And if that had been the case then Yanez would have been 100% in the right instead of being in the wrong because he screwed up by not giving clear instructions.
06-22-2017 10:37 AM
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Bull_Is_Back Offline
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Post: #166
RE: Minnesota officer acquitted
(06-22-2017 10:13 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  There also may need to be changes to required CCW training to reinforce exactly how you deal with police while carrying and its importance.

I'm fine with augmenting the training to include things like:

"During a stop when you are carrying do not take your hands off the steering wheel until the officer has acknowledged you and told you that it is ok to reach for your license"

But I don't think you can legally mandate that behavior. The burden for communication has to be on the police officer.
06-22-2017 10:41 AM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #167
RE: Minnesota officer acquitted
(06-21-2017 09:16 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(06-21-2017 06:03 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Guide for dealing with officer involved shooting put out by the International Association of Police Chiefs in conjunction with the United States Dept. of Justice.
http://www.theiacp.org/portals/0/documen...ved_v8.pdf

Quote:The safety and well-being of the involved officer(s) and innocent bystanders is the first priority. On-scene personnel should ensure that the subject is not a threat, to include disarming, handcuffing, or otherwise securing the person. An officer should never assume that because a subject has been shot or otherwise incapacitated, he or she is unable to take aggressive action

Moved past the issue of him helping Castille, long ago. It was a side issue.

Just wanted to make it known that you were wrong once again.
06-22-2017 01:48 PM
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rath v2.0 Offline
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Post: #168
RE: Minnesota officer acquitted
Day #4 of deliberations in the Officer Ray Tensing re-trial here in Cincinnati and still no verdict.

26 hours of deliberations so far....in the first trial it was declared a mistrial due to a hung jury after 25 hours of deliberations.

Tomorrow will be interesting. If its declared another mistrial on a hot Friday afternoon, I will avoid downtown this weekend like a case of herpes.
06-22-2017 04:26 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #169
RE: Minnesota officer acquitted
(06-22-2017 10:37 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  I never said it could not have changed things, but it also could have led to the same conclusion if his id was in the same pocket as his gun... And if that had been the case then Yanez would have been 100% in the right instead of being in the wrong because he screwed up by not giving clear instructions.

I don't follow your hypothetical. His gun is in the pocket, out of sight. He doesn't tell Yanez that he has a gone. It remains in his pocket, out of sight. Hands Yanez his ID, Yanez realizes he isn't the guy from the robbery early, and is just trying to get home, and lets him gone. Nothing happens ...
06-23-2017 09:00 AM
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Bull_Is_Back Offline
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Post: #170
RE: Minnesota officer acquitted
(06-23-2017 09:00 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(06-22-2017 10:37 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  I never said it could not have changed things, but it also could have led to the same conclusion if his id was in the same pocket as his gun... And if that had been the case then Yanez would have been 100% in the right instead of being in the wrong because he screwed up by not giving clear instructions.

I don't follow your hypothetical. His gun is in the pocket, out of sight. He doesn't tell Yanez that he has a gone. It remains in his pocket, out of sight. Hands Yanez his ID, Yanez realizes he isn't the guy from the robbery early, and is just trying to get home, and lets him gone. Nothing happens ...

If his gun was in the same pocket with his ID and while pulling the id out the gun became visible...
06-23-2017 06:54 PM
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ArmyBlazer Offline
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Post: #171
RE: Minnesota officer acquitted
(06-22-2017 09:56 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  
(06-21-2017 07:15 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(06-21-2017 07:04 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  
(06-21-2017 09:37 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(06-21-2017 09:18 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  The threat was totally eliminated and secured after the first shot. Beyond doubt totally eliminated and secured after the seven shots.

It would've looked better if he tried to do more to help the situation, after those shots were fired.

I'm sorry.....I must have missed it. How much law enforcement experience do you have again? What about emergency trauma experience?

1Sgt Bradley Kasal, USMC, was wounded seven times by an insurgent's machine gun, a much more powerful weapon than any sidearm carried by law enforcement today, AND by 43 pieces of shrapnel from a grenade and still killed insurgents. Here's a picture of him being carried out of the house he was wounded in between 45 minutes to an hour AFTER he was wounded and BEFORE receiving any medical attention.
[Image: 6tN4hWk.jpg]

Notice what's in his hand? He's been shot seven times, hit with 43 pieces of shrapnel, lost over half of his total volume of blood while bleeding for close to an hour and still could put three in your center mass if he had to.

That is one bad mo-effer.
Indeed he is. He's currently the SGT Major of the I Marine Expeditionary Force.

Sgt Majors are made of titanium frames with black rhinoceros hide stretched over it.

A wise man once told me that s Sgt. Major is only good for 1 of 2 things. Either measuring grass or kicking ass. Cheesy, but fairly accurate.
06-23-2017 07:17 PM
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rath v2.0 Offline
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Post: #172
RE: Minnesota officer acquitted
(06-22-2017 04:26 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Day #4 of deliberations in the Officer Ray Tensing re-trial here in Cincinnati and still no verdict.

26 hours of deliberations so far....in the first trial it was declared a mistrial due to a hung jury after 25 hours of deliberations.

Tomorrow will be interesting. If its declared another mistrial on a hot Friday afternoon, I will avoid downtown this weekend like a case of herpes.

On day 5, second mistrial is declared.
06-23-2017 07:27 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #173
RE: Minnesota officer acquitted
(06-23-2017 06:54 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  If his gun was in the same pocket with his ID and while pulling the id out the gun became visible...

Of course.

So just make sure your wallet isn't in the same pocket as your gun, and make sure you don't volunteer to the cop who pulled you over that you have a gun in your pocket, and you won't get shot by the police during a traffic stop.
06-25-2017 11:45 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #174
RE: Minnesota officer acquitted
We probably knew this was coming anyway, but ...

http://www.startribune.com/philando-cast...430840813/

Quote:The mother of Philando Castile, a black motorist killed by a Minnesota police officer last July, has reached a nearly $3 million settlement with the city that employed the officer, avoiding a federal wrongful death lawsuit that attorneys said could have taken years to resolve.


The interesting thing is that Falcon Heights, where the incident took place, is a tiny little speck of a suburb. Yanez was employed by the city police dept of St Anthony, which is only slightly larger but still quite small, as far as MSP suburbs go. $3M would not be insignificant for them ... I guess insurance pays for it.
(This post was last modified: 06-27-2017 08:12 AM by MplsBison.)
06-27-2017 08:11 AM
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #175
RE: Minnesota officer acquitted
(06-27-2017 08:11 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  We probably knew this was coming anyway, but ...

http://www.startribune.com/philando-cast...430840813/

Quote:The mother of Philando Castile, a black motorist killed by a Minnesota police officer last July, has reached a nearly $3 million settlement with the city that employed the officer, avoiding a federal wrongful death lawsuit that attorneys said could have taken years to resolve.


The interesting thing is that Falcon Heights, where the incident took place, is a tiny little speck of a suburb. Yanez was employed by the city police dept of St Anthony, which is only slightly larger but still quite small, as far as MSP suburbs go. $3M would not be insignificant for them ... I guess insurance pays for it.

Insurance likely covered the loss, although the community may have had a deductible or a self-insured retention amount. However, the city will likely face a stiff surcharge, raising their premium in the ensuing years.
06-27-2017 08:34 AM
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