(06-19-2017 09:12 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  It's taken out of context. She was answering a question on why people don't like it. They will appreciate it once it has passed is the context. They knew exactly what was in it and it will help many many people.

Dang, Mach. You 've lost it buddy.

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(06-16-2017 08:12 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  It was a half true because the guy said hundreds of amendments were approved. That's a far far cry from them being shut out of the process like Owl claimed. Look you either side on the falsehood or the truth. It's not a half truth. They were involved. Nothing like it is today. Stop the lies. That's all I am saying.

And the plantation owner was "involved" in the picking of the cotton...

you realize how ludicrous this sounds?

Damn, man. Damn.

There were next to NO significant inputs from R's in the making of this schit sausage. They DID however work, a LOT, to improve a number of things after this turd sandwich was foisted on the American people.

What was the true lie about those efforts? "60 some gazillion efforts to repeal zerOcare!!!", getting nothing else done". Over and over and over again. When MOST of those were good hearted efforts to fix crap and improve this complete disaster. And guess what?

Shocker- the R's were demonized repeatedly by the lying socialists and their complicit fake news MSM. So, what's the point?

Dim bill, plain and simple. The people have recognized this since '10 and have resoundingly rebuked the leftist overreach by the dishonest left. Well over 1000 (!) seats and exec offices since then.

Wear that albatross proudly, ladies. It's a good look in some circles so I've heard.

(06-19-2017 09:12 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  It's taken out of context. She was answering a question on why people don't like it. They will appreciate it once it has passed is the context. They knew exactly what was in it and it will help many many people.

There is no context in which those words have any meaning other than F U.

(06-19-2017 09:12 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  It's taken out of context. She was answering a question on why people don't like it. They will appreciate it once it has passed is the context. They knew exactly what was in it and it will help many many people.

They may have known, but nobody else did. That's the point.

(06-19-2017 06:50 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(06-19-2017 03:47 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-19-2017 02:27 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(06-19-2017 02:25 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Democrats were just as secretive about the bill that was actually passed as republicans are about this one.


He's such a better poster than this. When you lose a guy like Owl to the dark side stick a fork in us. We've disagreed on plenty but I've never seen him be this disingenuous. I don't understand it and I'm hoping one of these yahoots has hijacked his passwords. The past year he's changed. Shoot I've changed too. Sign of the times but we have to have a little shred of honesty left. This pains me. It really does.

"We have to pass it to see whats in it." - Democrat Ghoul

So where is he being disingenuous?

That's not what she said...we've covered this dozens of times.

She never said "We have to pass the bill, so that you can find out what is in it"??

That's exactly what she said. She DID NOT say what HOD quoted. They're two very distinct things.

Why does everyone seem to forget that we live in a Representative Republic. We elect officials to make laws for us. We don't get to write the nuts and bolts of laws...they do. Hence, the general populous won't ever know all that is in the laws until they are passed and are put into effect.

It's also no secret that our elected officials have staff that do much of the research, combined with industry experts and the like which write the nuts and bolts of complex law like health care policy. It's then up to the elected officials to know and understand what the law will do and disseminate that to the electorate.

And many of you seem to think the law was designed purposely to fail. So to say this and then say Pelosi didn't know these "toxic pills" were in it doesn't seem to bolster that argument now does it?

(06-20-2017 12:17 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-19-2017 09:12 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  It's taken out of context. She was answering a question on why people don't like it. They will appreciate it once it has passed is the context. They knew exactly what was in it and it will help many many people.

They may have known, but nobody else did. That's the point.

Again, since when is it the general public's' obligation or a congressional requirement to disseminate everything and every consequence of every law before it is passed?

Also, there can be NO reasonable comparison to the year long exercise of the ACA to this current iteration where reportedly only about a dozen or so GOP senators know what is in this new bill, which will be scored by the CBO over the weekend, reported back early next week, and then voted on by the full Senate by next Thursday.

Those of you, and there are MANY, who continually complained about the Obama administrations perceived lack of transparency should be screaming bloody murder about his...but you're basically silent. And we all know why...and it's sad what you've let trump do to you in such a short amount of time.

(06-20-2017 09:29 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-20-2017 12:17 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-19-2017 09:12 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  It's taken out of context. She was answering a question on why people don't like it. They will appreciate it once it has passed is the context. They knew exactly what was in it and it will help many many people.

They may have known, but nobody else did. That's the point.

Again, since when is it the general public's' obligation or a congressional requirement to disseminate everything and every consequence of every law before it is passed?

Also, there can be NO reasonable comparison to the year long exercise of the ACA to this current iteration where reportedly only about a dozen or so GOP senators know what is in this new bill, which will be scored by the CBO over the weekend, reported back early next week, and then voted on by the full Senate by next Thursday.

Those of you, and there are MANY, who continually complained about the Obama administrations perceived lack of transparency should be screaming bloody murder about his...but you're basically silent. And we all know why...and it's sad what you've let trump do to you in such a short amount of time.

What lack of transparency? I know a hell of a lot more about the ACHA than the ACA, and the only reason I knew what I did about the ACA was because my members of congress spent the time to go through as much of it as they could to raise concerns. It certainly wasnt because the libturds were announcing any of it. Hell, most of them probably red a few pages of that bill at the most.

(06-20-2017 09:29 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-20-2017 12:17 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-19-2017 09:12 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  It's taken out of context. She was answering a question on why people don't like it. They will appreciate it once it has passed is the context. They knew exactly what was in it and it will help many many people.

They may have known, but nobody else did. That's the point.

Again, since when is it the general public's' obligation or a congressional requirement to disseminate everything and every consequence of every law before it is passed?

Also, there can be NO reasonable comparison to the year long exercise of the ACA to this current iteration where reportedly only about a dozen or so GOP senators know what is in this new bill, which will be scored by the CBO over the weekend, reported back early next week, and then voted on by the full Senate by next Thursday.

Those of you, and there are MANY, who continually complained about the Obama administrations perceived lack of transparency should be screaming bloody murder about his...but you're basically silent. And we all know why...and it's sad what you've let trump do to you in such a short amount of time.

They learned from the Democrats. The Dems don't care about "fairness" or hypocrisy---they just care about getting thier way. I for one am glad to see the Elephants finally playing the game like the Donkeys. Now that the shoe is on the other foot---Mach is just feeling what we have felt for most of the last decade under the Obama Regime.

(06-20-2017 09:42 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-20-2017 09:29 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-20-2017 12:17 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-19-2017 09:12 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  It's taken out of context. She was answering a question on why people don't like it. They will appreciate it once it has passed is the context. They knew exactly what was in it and it will help many many people.

They may have known, but nobody else did. That's the point.

Again, since when is it the general public's' obligation or a congressional requirement to disseminate everything and every consequence of every law before it is passed?

Also, there can be NO reasonable comparison to the year long exercise of the ACA to this current iteration where reportedly only about a dozen or so GOP senators know what is in this new bill, which will be scored by the CBO over the weekend, reported back early next week, and then voted on by the full Senate by next Thursday.

Those of you, and there are MANY, who continually complained about the Obama administrations perceived lack of transparency should be screaming bloody murder about his...but you're basically silent. And we all know why...and it's sad what you've let trump do to you in such a short amount of time.

They learned from the Democrats. The Dems don't care about "fairness" or hypocrisy---they just care about getting thier way. I for one am glad to see the Elephants finally playing the game like the Donkeys.

The sooner we stop pretending that one side does something better than the other, we might actually start to improve our country. The continued blind partisanship is maddening. Republicans are not better than Democrats and Democrats are not better than Republicans. THEY ALL SUCK!

(06-20-2017 09:46 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-20-2017 09:42 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-20-2017 09:29 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-20-2017 12:17 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-19-2017 09:12 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  It's taken out of context. She was answering a question on why people don't like it. They will appreciate it once it has passed is the context. They knew exactly what was in it and it will help many many people.

They may have known, but nobody else did. That's the point.

Again, since when is it the general public's' obligation or a congressional requirement to disseminate everything and every consequence of every law before it is passed?

Also, there can be NO reasonable comparison to the year long exercise of the ACA to this current iteration where reportedly only about a dozen or so GOP senators know what is in this new bill, which will be scored by the CBO over the weekend, reported back early next week, and then voted on by the full Senate by next Thursday.

Those of you, and there are MANY, who continually complained about the Obama administrations perceived lack of transparency should be screaming bloody murder about his...but you're basically silent. And we all know why...and it's sad what you've let trump do to you in such a short amount of time.

They learned from the Democrats. The Dems don't care about "fairness" or hypocrisy---they just care about getting thier way. I for one am glad to see the Elephants finally playing the game like the Donkeys.

The sooner we stop pretending that one side does something better than the other, we might actually start to improve our country. The continued blind partisanship is maddening. Republicans are not better than Democrats and Democrats are not better than Republicans. THEY ALL SUCK!

Funny, during the past 8 years of Obama, I never heard you once say this.

(06-20-2017 09:46 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-20-2017 09:42 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-20-2017 09:29 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-20-2017 12:17 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-19-2017 09:12 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  It's taken out of context. She was answering a question on why people don't like it. They will appreciate it once it has passed is the context. They knew exactly what was in it and it will help many many people.

They may have known, but nobody else did. That's the point.

Again, since when is it the general public's' obligation or a congressional requirement to disseminate everything and every consequence of every law before it is passed?

Also, there can be NO reasonable comparison to the year long exercise of the ACA to this current iteration where reportedly only about a dozen or so GOP senators know what is in this new bill, which will be scored by the CBO over the weekend, reported back early next week, and then voted on by the full Senate by next Thursday.

Those of you, and there are MANY, who continually complained about the Obama administrations perceived lack of transparency should be screaming bloody murder about his...but you're basically silent. And we all know why...and it's sad what you've let trump do to you in such a short amount of time.

They learned from the Democrats. The Dems don't care about "fairness" or hypocrisy---they just care about getting thier way. I for one am glad to see the Elephants finally playing the game like the Donkeys.

The sooner we stop pretending that one side does something better than the other, we might actually start to improve our country. The continued blind partisanship is maddening. Republicans are not better than Democrats and Democrats are not better than Republicans. THEY ALL SUCK!

Well, there is no doubt that the driving force behind almost every politician is "staying In power" rather than the "public good". That goes for both parties.

(06-20-2017 10:52 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-20-2017 09:46 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-20-2017 09:42 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-20-2017 09:29 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-20-2017 12:17 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  They may have known, but nobody else did. That's the point.

Again, since when is it the general public's' obligation or a congressional requirement to disseminate everything and every consequence of every law before it is passed?

Also, there can be NO reasonable comparison to the year long exercise of the ACA to this current iteration where reportedly only about a dozen or so GOP senators know what is in this new bill, which will be scored by the CBO over the weekend, reported back early next week, and then voted on by the full Senate by next Thursday.

Those of you, and there are MANY, who continually complained about the Obama administrations perceived lack of transparency should be screaming bloody murder about his...but you're basically silent. And we all know why...and it's sad what you've let trump do to you in such a short amount of time.

They learned from the Democrats. The Dems don't care about "fairness" or hypocrisy---they just care about getting thier way. I for one am glad to see the Elephants finally playing the game like the Donkeys.

The sooner we stop pretending that one side does something better than the other, we might actually start to improve our country. The continued blind partisanship is maddening. Republicans are not better than Democrats and Democrats are not better than Republicans. THEY ALL SUCK!

Well, there is no doubt that the driving force behind almost every politician is "staying In power" rather than the "public good". That goes for both parties.

Agreed. We either need term limits or a severe reduction in the amount of personal wealth congress readily accumulates while in office.

Dem Sen. Murphy Blames Trump For Obamacare’a Failures, Refuses To Commit To Working On Bipartisan Solution…

How in the hell is it Trump's fault?

(06-19-2017 09:15 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Stand back folks...he's an "expert"!

How much you wanna bet all those who crafted the nuts and bolts of the ACA and those who are now crafting the nuts and bolts of the AHCA also fancy themselves as "experts"?

Here's the thing that people like you don't get... I don't care if you DO call them experts. It makes no difference to the point. I was giving you a hypothetical of how one can consult an expert from the beginning, or wait until major decisions have been made and get completely different responses from the same person.

Paraphrasing a movie...

Quote:Can you tell me how to get to Pixley?

Well, If I were trying to get to Pixley, I sure wouldn't start from here.

What if you had to?

It's not MY fault if you don't understand the language.

Quote:But the funniest part is that the Democrats did not consult the the Republicans on key components...you know...like the individual mandate!

This comment only demonstrates that you're not AT ALL an expert on the subject. Yeah, the reason it was included is NOT because Democrats needed 'healthy' people to pay for insurance they didn't want, but because Republicans insisted that it be included in the plan.

What a ridiculous comment.

Quote:And the biggest flaw in this "expert" analysis is the fantasy of democrats and republicans working together on the ACA or anything major...you know...like they did throughout the entire presidencies of Clinton and Bush.

THIS comment only demonstrates that you don't even know the topic of the discussion. I've not claimed to be an expert in 'political discourse from 1992-present'. I claimed to be an expert on healthcare and the ACAs impact on it... something I've routinely demonstrated on this board. Others are aware of my personal qualifications for the claim... but i really don't care if you accept it or not. The fact is immaterial to the comment.

Choose your expert... Start with a blank slate and they will give you their expert opinion. Start with some major preconceptions and hold them to those and they will give you a DIFFERENT expert opinion.

(06-20-2017 11:38 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-20-2017 10:52 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-20-2017 09:46 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-20-2017 09:42 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-20-2017 09:29 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Again, since when is it the general public's' obligation or a congressional requirement to disseminate everything and every consequence of every law before it is passed?

Also, there can be NO reasonable comparison to the year long exercise of the ACA to this current iteration where reportedly only about a dozen or so GOP senators know what is in this new bill, which will be scored by the CBO over the weekend, reported back early next week, and then voted on by the full Senate by next Thursday.

Those of you, and there are MANY, who continually complained about the Obama administrations perceived lack of transparency should be screaming bloody murder about his...but you're basically silent. And we all know why...and it's sad what you've let trump do to you in such a short amount of time.

They learned from the Democrats. The Dems don't care about "fairness" or hypocrisy---they just care about getting thier way. I for one am glad to see the Elephants finally playing the game like the Donkeys.

The sooner we stop pretending that one side does something better than the other, we might actually start to improve our country. The continued blind partisanship is maddening. Republicans are not better than Democrats and Democrats are not better than Republicans. THEY ALL SUCK!

Well, there is no doubt that the driving force behind almost every politician is "staying In power" rather than the "public good". That goes for both parties.

Agreed. We either need term limits or a severe reduction in the amount of personal wealth congress readily accumulates while in office.

I'd go with limits on wealth accumulation, if there were some way to enforce them. That would take are of the term limits issue. I would definitely favor holding them toinsider trading rules.

(06-20-2017 06:19 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-20-2017 11:38 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-20-2017 10:52 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-20-2017 09:46 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-20-2017 09:42 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  They learned from the Democrats. The Dems don't care about "fairness" or hypocrisy---they just care about getting thier way. I for one am glad to see the Elephants finally playing the game like the Donkeys.

The sooner we stop pretending that one side does something better than the other, we might actually start to improve our country. The continued blind partisanship is maddening. Republicans are not better than Democrats and Democrats are not better than Republicans. THEY ALL SUCK!

Well, there is no doubt that the driving force behind almost every politician is "staying In power" rather than the "public good". That goes for both parties.

Agreed. We either need term limits or a severe reduction in the amount of personal wealth congress readily accumulates while in office.

I'd go with limits on wealth accumulation, if there were some way to enforce them. That would take are of the term limits issue. I would definitely favor holding them toinsider trading rules.

My idea was always to take away their salary basically. Just provide them with a modest stipend and then benefits like travel to and from their district, health care, and board while living in DC coupled with a retirement plan totally vested after a second full term.

And also, we need some major campaign finance reform. I'd go with no donations other than totally transparent public ones from individuals capped at a small dollar amount that can only be used for their election campaigns.

Of course I don't have all the nuts and bolts, but this would be a decent starting point anyway.

I'd prefer completely publicly funded elections... with budget caps for every office.... say $10,000 for city council and $100mm for President.

Job 1 would be to win within a budget and that would be a good qualification for any position. Coming in UNDER budget could be good advertising/campaign goal.

Especially in that so much advertising these days is 'free' (the internet)

(06-20-2017 05:40 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  Dem Sen. Murphy Blames Trump For Obamacare’a Failures, Refuses To Commit To Working On Bipartisan Solution…

How in the hell is it Trump's fault?

The sad fact is, it doesn't matter what this slimy snake says and does, the CT electorate is so stupid they're going to re-elect him to another term in the Senate.

(06-21-2017 11:21 AM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(06-20-2017 05:40 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  Dem Sen. Murphy Blames Trump For Obamacare’a Failures, Refuses To Commit To Working On Bipartisan Solution…

How in the hell is it Trump's fault?

The sad fact is, it doesn't matter what this slimy snake says and does, the CT electorate is so stupid they're going to re-elect him to another term in the Senate.

And that differs from around 90% of them from both parties how exactly?

(06-21-2017 12:27 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 11:21 AM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(06-20-2017 05:40 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  Dem Sen. Murphy Blames Trump For Obamacare’a Failures, Refuses To Commit To Working On Bipartisan Solution…

How in the hell is it Trump's fault?

The sad fact is, it doesn't matter what this slimy snake says and does, the CT electorate is so stupid they're going to re-elect him to another term in the Senate.

And that differs from around 90% of them from both parties how exactly?

in ways that you apparently can not comprehend.