Up from $36.3 in the current fiscal year ended June 30, 2017.

Benefit of New Television Deal

$51M is a ridiculous amount of money.

Remember back in 2009, when the BigTen announced it was going to explore expansion, how it was such a big deal that the BigTen was already making a whpping $17M per school per year, so much more than any other conference.

Now $17M seems like chump change for any P5 conference.

Congratulations! Last year your gross total revenue averages trailed those of the SEC schools by 16 million per school before subsidies were removed and by 20 million per school after subsidies were removed. This will help get you caught up. Last year you distributed 32 million each to the oldest 11 schools in the conference from your profit sharing which devalued the BTN by 39.2% of its previous year's valuation. Payments around 21 million went to the 3 newest schools. So if you distribute as much from that fund this year you will only trail the SEC schools by around 4 million per school in gross total revenue since we are expected to earn 43 million in TV payouts this year as opposed to the 41.4 million we received last year.

What is happening however is a very distinct distancing of the Big 10 and SEC revenue from that of the other three, specifically the PAC and ACC. The Big 12 should again be around the 35 million payout plus their T3 in most cases about 10 million behind (Oklahoma, Texas and Kansas excepted). Texas earned 49 million total this year and is expected to crack 50 million next year. Oklahoma should hit in around 43 million.

(06-15-2017 10:29 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The Big 12 should again be around the 35 million payout plus their T3

The value of the Big12's T3 rights is the myth that keeps on giving. Everyone has "tier 3 rights". The Big12 schools like to tack T3 numbers on to conference payouts pretending they don't exist in other conferences.

Monetizing those T3 TV rights in the B12 involves lumping them in with radio, coach shows, and other multimedia. It's a "kitchen sink" of media rights. The value of the B12's TV rights (one football game, usually FCS or bottom-feeder FBS, plus 4 hoops games) are a relatively small fraction of what it portends to be "Tier 3".

As an example, WVU has a contract with IMG that's worth around $6.5M per year. That contract involves their Big12 T3 TV rights, radio, coaches shows, and other multimedia.

VT has a contract with IMG that pays an average of $7M per year. It doesn't include any T3 TV rights since they're owned by ESPN, but includes everything else covered under WVU's IMG contract: Radio, coaches shows, other multimedia.

How is VT's contract roughly the same as WVU's if VT doesn't have any T3 TV rights? The answer is that the monetization of the Big12's "tier3" is lumped in with the kitchen sink, and that sink is worth way more than that 1 cupcake football game an 4 OOC basketball games.

If WVU wants to add $6M in "T3" to their Big12 payout, then then they should add $7M to VT's ACC payout for equivalence. Instead, they, and most other B12 schools, pretend the money from those T3 rights are mainly in TV and that no one else has anything of similar value, which is most certainly not the case.

(06-16-2017 12:29 AM)ColKurtz Wrote:  

(06-15-2017 10:29 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The Big 12 should again be around the 35 million payout plus their T3 in most cases about 10 million behind (Oklahoma, Texas and Kansas excepted). Texas earned 49 million total this year and is expected to crack 50 million next year. Oklahoma should hit in around 43 million.

The value of the Big12's T3 rights is the myth that keeps on giving. Everyone has "tier 3 rights". The Big12 schools like to tack T3 numbers on to conference payouts pretending they don't exist in other conferences.

Monetizing those T3 TV rights in the B12 involves lumping them in with radio, coach shows, and other multimedia. It's a "kitchen sink" of media rights. The value of the B12's TV rights (one football game, usually FCS or bottom-feeder FBS, plus 4 hoops games) are a relatively small fraction of what it portends to be "Tier 3".

As an example, WVU has a contract with IMG that's worth around $6.5M per year. That contract involves their Big12 T3 TV rights, radio, coaches shows, and other multimedia.

VT has a contract with IMG that pays an average of $7M per year. It doesn't include any T3 TV rights since they're owned by ESPN, but includes everything else covered under WVU's IMG contract: Radio, coaches shows, other multimedia.

How is VT's contract roughly the same as WVU's if VT doesn't have any T3 TV rights? The answer is that the monetization of the Big12's "tier3" is lumped in with the kitchen sink, and that sink is worth way more than that 1 cupcake football game an 4 OOC basketball games.

If WVU wants to add $6M in "T3" to their Big12 payout, then then they should add $7M to VT's ACC payout for equivalence. Instead, they, and most other B12 schools, pretend the money from those T3 rights are mainly in TV and that no one else has anything of similar value, which is most certainly not the case.

Well first of all it is because every conference has a different understanding about T3 rights and what the composition of those rights shall be.

Where the Big 12 gets into this is that the Big 10, SEC, PAC and ACC have revenue coming in from all of their football and basketball games and that portion of the their T3 is already built into the reported TV revenues from their contracts. The Big 12 sells their 1 or 2 games not included in the T1 and T2 contracts individually so their conference doesn't report that number. When they talk about T3 rights they mean those 1 or 2 games they sell for themselves. In the case of Texas that is the game that is on the LHN every year along with a few basketball games and some baseball games.

In the ACC and SEC it means gate, concessions, merchandise sales, trademark usage, radio broadcasts, etc. And no those aren't reported in the TV revenue and we all have them.

So it's fair for the Big 12 schools to add in that last bit of TV revenue that is theirs to sell individually. But it chronically makes apples to apples comparisons practically meaningless.

That's why I use the gross revenue totals averaged by the # of conference teams to determine a Mean Gross Revenue Total. It encompasses all revenue before any of it is written off for tax purposes. While still not a perfect comparison it is better than most.

Last year the SEC's Mean Gross was 124 million per school. The B1G's was 108 million and the Big 12 was 102 million. The PAC was 89 million and the ACC was 87 million.

Many folks then break that down by subtracting the subsidies. But subsidies are categorized differently as well so even that is still not as accurate as we would like.

We'll see what happens when the ACCN is up and running. I have a feeling it will catapult you into third position even if the Big 12 is still around.

if your such finicial genius
why can't u see thru the smoke
tier 3 is tier 3, it's not arangeable to fit my story

(06-15-2017 08:03 PM)MadisonHawk Wrote:  Up from $36.3 in the current fiscal year ended June 30, 2017.

Benefit of New Television Deal

I've been predicting this for a long time ... the B1G is now in the driver's seat in terms of media revenue, well ahead of even the SEC.

It's an echo of the 2007 decisions by Slive to sign solely with ESPN/CBS and Delaney to hold out 50% of their rights for the BTN.

How many of you red hot rocket aces can do simple math???

2.6 billion over 6 years. That's 433.33 million per year divided by 15 equal shares. Yes 15. The conference gets a share too. That works out to a total revenue payment of 28.9 million per school in media money.

Where is the other 22.7 million per school coming from???

Last year the Big 10 disbursed 32.4 million to each of the 11 oldest members and approximately 21 million to the newest 3 members, or roughly 420 million dollars. At the same time the BTN lost 39.2% of its total value roughly 448 million. Hmmm??? Gee that's mighty close considering that Delany got a 20 million dollar bonus and it lost about 2% of its value due to cord cutting.

I say 2% because that is what the SEC lost to cord cutting and I figured they would relatively close to the same.

Michigan may get a 51.7 million dollar payout but only 28.9 million of it will be coming from the new contracts.

If the BTN loses another 30% of its value this year we'll have the answer.

But that's okay. If they are divesting from the BTN it's a smart move for two reasons.

1. That model is dying and it's better to divest and change models than to lose equity.
2. It means they are eliminating the conference buy in which might help with future additions.

But let's call it what it is. The media deal itself is simply not that big. At least not unless there is another 330 million that's not being reported in annual media revenue.

Now bowl revenue and tournament credits might account for a bit more per school. But I don't think it's enough to make up even half of the 22.7 million. And you'll note the title of the OP. It said the Big 10 would distribute 51.7 million. There's more here than meets the eye.

These revenues should be taxable for all public universities.

(06-16-2017 07:37 AM)miko33 Wrote:  These revenues should be taxable for all public universities.

They're the Big Ten's revenues, plain and simple. And the Big Ten does pay taxes on them ... how do you think the media ultimately figures out the numbers? Tax filings.

The Big Ten simply chooses to then give each school in the conference the majority of the remaining (after taxes) money. It does keep some for itself, but I doubt an equal share to what the schools get. It has minimal operating costs itself (just an office location, supplies, and a few staff plus their travel).

JRSec, like you're saying -- there are many different revenue streams being rolled up here, into this $51M figure.

The contracts that the Big Ten signed with ESPN and FOX are just one revenue stream of several, that get rolled up every year before the final disbursement is made to each school.


Definitely important that apples are identified for apples, in conference revenue discussions.

(06-16-2017 08:57 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  JRSec, like you're saying -- there are many different revenue streams being rolled up here, into this $51M figure.

The contracts that the Big Ten signed with ESPN and FOX are just one revenue stream of several, that get rolled up every year before the final disbursement is made to each school.


Definitely important that apples are identified for apples, in conference revenue discussions.

Agreed. What I want to see is a "clean" comparison, that is, just what the SEC and B1G are getting from their tier-1 TV deals, the SEC from the SECN and CBS, and the B1G from the BTN and its new FOX/ESPN deal. No conflation from gate sharing, bowl/CFP money, and mixing in of local media rights.

Not that those other streams aren't important, they are, but we have to screen them out if the goal is to compare media deals.

That will tell the media tale.

(06-15-2017 10:29 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Congratulations! Last year your gross total revenue averages trailed those of the SEC schools by 16 million per school before subsidies were removed and by 20 million per school after subsidies were removed. This will help get you caught up. Last year you distributed 32 million each to the oldest 11 schools in the conference from your profit sharing which devalued the BTN by 39.2% of its previous year's valuation. Payments around 21 million went to the 3 newest schools. So if you distribute as much from that fund this year you will only trail the SEC schools by around 4 million per school in gross total revenue since we are expected to earn 43 million in TV payouts this year as opposed to the 41.4 million we received last year.

What is happening however is a very distinct distancing of the Big 10 and SEC revenue from that of the other three, specifically the PAC and ACC. The Big 12 should again be around the 35 million payout plus their T3 in most cases about 10 million behind (Oklahoma, Texas and Kansas excepted). Texas earned 49 million total this year and is expected to crack 50 million next year. Oklahoma should hit in around 43 million.

Congratulations to you too, as regards your conference's larger revenue-stream.

Why make this thread a revenue-measuring contest?

The biggest problem the big 10 and sec face is if their expansion efforts kill off the popularity of college athletics nationwide. The other issue is salaries of coaches turning off fans. Having universities run a pro league in football and basketball for the top tier has created a monster for them to manage.

(06-16-2017 09:48 AM)Nittany_Bearcat Wrote:  

(06-15-2017 10:29 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Congratulations! Last year your gross total revenue averages trailed those of the SEC schools by 16 million per school before subsidies were removed and by 20 million per school after subsidies were removed. This will help get you caught up. Last year you distributed 32 million each to the oldest 11 schools in the conference from your profit sharing which devalued the BTN by 39.2% of its previous year's valuation. Payments around 21 million went to the 3 newest schools. So if you distribute as much from that fund this year you will only trail the SEC schools by around 4 million per school in gross total revenue since we are expected to earn 43 million in TV payouts this year as opposed to the 41.4 million we received last year.

What is happening however is a very distinct distancing of the Big 10 and SEC revenue from that of the other three, specifically the PAC and ACC. The Big 12 should again be around the 35 million payout plus their T3 in most cases about 10 million behind (Oklahoma, Texas and Kansas excepted). Texas earned 49 million total this year and is expected to crack 50 million next year. Oklahoma should hit in around 43 million.

Congratulations to you too, as regards your conference's larger revenue-stream.

Why make this thread a revenue-measuring contest?

Exactly!

Sent from my SM-G920V using CSNbbs mobile app

(06-16-2017 09:42 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Agreed. What I want to see is a "clean" comparison, that is, just what the SEC and B1G are getting from their tier-1 TV deals, the SEC from the SECN and CBS, and the B1G from the BTN and its new FOX/ESPN deal. No conflation from gate sharing, bowl/CFP money, and mixing in of local media rights.

Not that those other streams aren't important, they are, but we have to screen them out if the goal is to compare media deals.

That will tell the media tale.

I would think the numbers from CBS, ESPN, and FOX would be relatively easy, for both conferences. I would think in both cases, each deal should have a public announcement of $X total over Y years.

The BTN and SECN numbers, though, might be harder or impossible to parse out from a grand roll-up disbursement figure, without insider knowledge of the books.

(06-15-2017 08:03 PM)MadisonHawk Wrote:  Up from $36.3 in the current fiscal year ended June 30, 2017.

Benefit of New Television Deal

I don't really pay much attention to these numbers.

It is not like they are sending me any "mailbox money".

Notre Dame wouldn't be able to send you anything ... their football budget alone was $39M for FY15-16.

And betting a decent chunk of the $27.4M "not allocated by gender/sport" in FY15-16 is being incurred by the athletic dept for the benefit of the football team.

(06-16-2017 08:54 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(06-16-2017 07:37 AM)miko33 Wrote:  These revenues should be taxable for all public universities.

They're the Big Ten's revenues, plain and simple. And the Big Ten does pay taxes on them ... how do you think the media ultimately figures out the numbers? Tax filings.

The Big Ten simply chooses to then give each school in the conference the majority of the remaining (after taxes) money. It does keep some for itself, but I doubt an equal share to what the schools get. It has minimal operating costs itself (just an office location, supplies, and a few staff plus their travel).

Excellent. However, all athletic dollar revenue streams should be taxed. These AD's are being run as profit centers and not as a nonprofit.

They aren't though .... I challenge you to find an athletic dept where all revenues are significantly exceeding expenses.

Trust me, they find ways to spend it.