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University of Cincinnati Expects Record Enrollment in Fall 2017
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Bearcat 1985 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: University of Cincinnati Expects Record Enrollment in Fall 2017
(07-12-2017 03:08 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 03:01 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 02:52 PM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  How do they rank the schools? The six metrics shown seemingly don't matter at all.
They show UC with better SAT/ACT scores than Xavier, better starting salary, half the cost of attendance, but somehow X is 9 schools better than UC in Ohio. Lol.

I can't believe people get paid to make these lists...I want in on that action.

Yea...their methodology seems very sketchy. UC costs less, has better students and its students make more out of school than Xavier students... who cares the percentage who get grants if the grants are just used to get it closer to UC's costs?

Many rankings use 4-year graduation rate as a metric, which immediately discounts the education value at schools with extended curriculum...such as the one that about half of our students are a part of (w/ Engineering, DAAP, Nursing, and Business). That drastically skews towards liberal arts schools who, by and large, do not offer extended programs.

Also skews things heavily to schools that pull a huge percentage of their students from families with incomes over 150K and conversely a tiny percentage of first generation college students. Schools, particularly public schools, shouldn't be penalized for being engines of social mobility, which is why a 6 year rate is a much better barometer.
 
07-12-2017 03:15 PM
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OKIcat Offline
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Post: #32
RE: University of Cincinnati Expects Record Enrollment in Fall 2017
(07-12-2017 03:01 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 02:52 PM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  How do they rank the schools? The six metrics shown seemingly don't matter at all.
They show UC with better SAT/ACT scores than Xavier, better starting salary, half the cost of attendance, but somehow X is 9 schools better than UC in Ohio. Lol.

I can't believe people get paid to make these lists...I want in on that action.

Yea...their methodology seems very sketchy. UC costs less, has better students and its students make more out of school than Xavier students... who cares the percentage who get grants if the grants are just used to get it closer to UC's costs?

Bolded, is a looming crisis for many private schools, especially if their endowments are small (by the way, the XU endowment is small relative to what they might consider their academic peer group). Sadly, this may be a race to the bottom financially as private school resources are increasingly allocated to subsidize tuition in an effort to compete on a cost basis. St. Joseph's College of Indiana is a cautionary tale in this regard and I believe we'll see many more private schools merging and/or closing in the coming decade as a result.
 
07-12-2017 03:33 PM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #33
RE: University of Cincinnati Expects Record Enrollment in Fall 2017
(07-12-2017 03:33 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 03:01 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 02:52 PM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  How do they rank the schools? The six metrics shown seemingly don't matter at all.
They show UC with better SAT/ACT scores than Xavier, better starting salary, half the cost of attendance, but somehow X is 9 schools better than UC in Ohio. Lol.

I can't believe people get paid to make these lists...I want in on that action.

Yea...their methodology seems very sketchy. UC costs less, has better students and its students make more out of school than Xavier students... who cares the percentage who get grants if the grants are just used to get it closer to UC's costs?

Bolded, is a looming crisis for many private schools, especially if their endowments are small (by the way, the XU endowment is small relative to what they might consider their academic peer group). Sadly, this may be a race to the bottom financially as private school resources are increasingly allocated to subsidize tuition in an effort to compete on a cost basis. St. Joseph's College of Indiana is a cautionary tale in this regard and I believe we'll see many more private schools merging and/or closing in the coming decade as a result.

That's why a recent report on the financial health of private schools in America done by the Commission on Higher Education states that 15%-20% of Private Institutions of Higher Learning are at risk of closure by 2030.
 
07-12-2017 04:02 PM
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FlyingTiger2016 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: University of Cincinnati Expects Record Enrollment in Fall 2017
(06-15-2017 02:24 PM)bearcatseminole Wrote:  As a higher-ed professional, the spin on this is interesting. Growth is definitely important, but so is retention. It's easy to put out these numbers and feel good about UC's prospects, but at the same time, some additional information would paint a much clearer picture.

Other pieces of information that would have been helpful:
- 1st year retention rate (from the previous year)
- 5-6 year graduation rate
- Enrollment numbers into which college? Is engineering growing? DAAP? A&S? Business? Where are all of these students going?

It's one thing to keep growing, but it's an entirely different story about the success of the university to see these numbers broken down.

For example, I currently work for Texas A&M - they have a huge amount of growth the past couple of years for their on-campus student body and a large proportion of those students are going into engineering. Part of this was a Texas wide recommendation that Texas (as a state) needs more engineers. The other part is TAMU's goal of having 25,000 students in the engineering college (not sure if that is solely undergrads or if that is a combination of all types of engineering students).

The point being - what are UC's growth goals? And are those goals connected to initiatives that will continue to raise the bar for the university? Or are they just a numbers race.

I also used to work at Middle Tennessee State University - now THAT is an example of a school that just sought enrollment numbers but didn't have the services to support the students. Although they were, at the time, the largest public university in the state of Tennessee, they had horrible retention numbers and graduation rates.

We need UC to have smart growth - which I think they are doing - but we also need more information to understand what is truly going on.

They had a reputation to say the least when I was in school, which is rather recent. The younger kids I talk to now seems like UTC has that reputation now.

Outside of Memphis, The majority of TBR schools are dropping now in enrollment.

I think a statewide trend since many more students are heading to community college because it's essentially free. Either way, the funding formula in TN makes schools be more selective anyway since graduation rates are so important. Memphis is up to around 50%, while our local community college is down to like 9%.
 
07-12-2017 04:23 PM
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FlyingTiger2016 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: University of Cincinnati Expects Record Enrollment in Fall 2017
(07-12-2017 04:02 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 03:33 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 03:01 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 02:52 PM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  How do they rank the schools? The six metrics shown seemingly don't matter at all.
They show UC with better SAT/ACT scores than Xavier, better starting salary, half the cost of attendance, but somehow X is 9 schools better than UC in Ohio. Lol.

I can't believe people get paid to make these lists...I want in on that action.

Yea...their methodology seems very sketchy. UC costs less, has better students and its students make more out of school than Xavier students... who cares the percentage who get grants if the grants are just used to get it closer to UC's costs?

Bolded, is a looming crisis for many private schools, especially if their endowments are small (by the way, the XU endowment is small relative to what they might consider their academic peer group). Sadly, this may be a race to the bottom financially as private school resources are increasingly allocated to subsidize tuition in an effort to compete on a cost basis. St. Joseph's College of Indiana is a cautionary tale in this regard and I believe we'll see many more private schools merging and/or closing in the coming decade as a result.

That's why a recent report on the financial health of private schools in America done by the Commission on Higher Education states that 15%-20% of Private Institutions of Higher Learning are at risk of closure by 2030.

Private schools are the worst. Especially, schools like XU. We have a local school like that called CBU. They cost $35,000 a year for a bare-bones education. Memphis has better students, deeper ties in with the local business community, and way cheaper. But somehow they convince kids to sign up for that scheme. It's sad really. The school was a two year school before the 1960s. The worst part is that their campus is right next to our Football stadium.

I can't wait for them to go bankrupt. Their undergraduate enrollment dropped from 1800 to 1200 from like 2002 - 2013. They are lucky they have some rich alumni who will keep the school up for a bit. And they are attempting to shift to a more diverse enrollment base since their old target demographic of kids want to attend SEC schools now.

And they are the smuggest tools in the world. But my experience with XU fans on Reddit, you guys might have it worst.

BTW, your report on the financial health of private schools is from Moody's. [1] Memphis benefited when Lambuth went under in 2010. We got a whole new campus in Jackson, TN. 02-13-banana

[1] - https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015...riple-2017
 
07-12-2017 04:44 PM
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FlyingTiger2016 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: University of Cincinnati Expects Record Enrollment in Fall 2017
(07-12-2017 04:44 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 04:02 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 03:33 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 03:01 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 02:52 PM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  How do they rank the schools? The six metrics shown seemingly don't matter at all.
They show UC with better SAT/ACT scores than Xavier, better starting salary, half the cost of attendance, but somehow X is 9 schools better than UC in Ohio. Lol.

I can't believe people get paid to make these lists...I want in on that action.

Yea...their methodology seems very sketchy. UC costs less, has better students and its students make more out of school than Xavier students... who cares the percentage who get grants if the grants are just used to get it closer to UC's costs?

Bolded, is a looming crisis for many private schools, especially if their endowments are small (by the way, the XU endowment is small relative to what they might consider their academic peer group). Sadly, this may be a race to the bottom financially as private school resources are increasingly allocated to subsidize tuition in an effort to compete on a cost basis. St. Joseph's College of Indiana is a cautionary tale in this regard and I believe we'll see many more private schools merging and/or closing in the coming decade as a result.

That's why a recent report on the financial health of private schools in America done by the Commission on Higher Education states that 15%-20% of Private Institutions of Higher Learning are at risk of closure by 2030.

Private schools are the worst. Especially, schools like XU. We have a local school like that called CBU. They cost $35,000 a year for a bare-bones education. Memphis has better students, deeper ties in with the local business community, and way cheaper. But somehow they convince kids to sign up for that scheme. It's sad really. The school was a two year school before the 1960s. The worst part is that their campus is right next to our Football stadium.

I can't wait for them to go bankrupt. Their undergraduate enrollment dropped from 1800 to 1200 from like 2002 - 2013. They are lucky they have some rich alumni who will keep the school up for a bit. And they are attempting to shift to a more diverse enrollment base since their old target demographic of kids want to attend SEC schools now.

And they are the smuggest tools in the world. But my experience with XU fans on Reddit, you guys might have it worst.

BTW, your report on the financial health of private schools is from Moody's. [1] Memphis benefited when Lambuth went under in 2010. We got a whole new campus in Jackson, TN. 02-13-banana

[1] - https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015...riple-2017

My last post, I don't mean to spam your forum. A big indicator of the health of private schools is the discount rate they apply to tuition. The average rate for private schools hit a historic high of 49.1% in 2016. [1] That chart is telling.

[1] - http://www.nacubo.org/About_NACUBO/Press...Again.html
 
07-12-2017 05:10 PM
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KCat Offline
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Post: #37
RE: University of Cincinnati Expects Record Enrollment in Fall 2017
The article has a negative slant too it (UC being ranked #22)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This looks like they got us mixed up the Cincinnati State.... No way 22.......
 
07-12-2017 05:22 PM
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BJUnklFkr Offline
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Post: #38
RE: University of Cincinnati Expects Record Enrollment in Fall 2017
(07-12-2017 01:52 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Woo hoo! My degrees from 1995 are both worth more than the new ones are!

IMPOSSIBLE! We both attended well before "Ms. Brand Equity" took over shop 04-jawdrop
 
07-12-2017 05:25 PM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #39
RE: University of Cincinnati Expects Record Enrollment in Fall 2017
(07-12-2017 05:10 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 04:44 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 04:02 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 03:33 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 03:01 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Yea...their methodology seems very sketchy. UC costs less, has better students and its students make more out of school than Xavier students... who cares the percentage who get grants if the grants are just used to get it closer to UC's costs?

Bolded, is a looming crisis for many private schools, especially if their endowments are small (by the way, the XU endowment is small relative to what they might consider their academic peer group). Sadly, this may be a race to the bottom financially as private school resources are increasingly allocated to subsidize tuition in an effort to compete on a cost basis. St. Joseph's College of Indiana is a cautionary tale in this regard and I believe we'll see many more private schools merging and/or closing in the coming decade as a result.

That's why a recent report on the financial health of private schools in America done by the Commission on Higher Education states that 15%-20% of Private Institutions of Higher Learning are at risk of closure by 2030.

Private schools are the worst. Especially, schools like XU. We have a local school like that called CBU. They cost $35,000 a year for a bare-bones education. Memphis has better students, deeper ties in with the local business community, and way cheaper. But somehow they convince kids to sign up for that scheme. It's sad really. The school was a two year school before the 1960s. The worst part is that their campus is right next to our Football stadium.

I can't wait for them to go bankrupt. Their undergraduate enrollment dropped from 1800 to 1200 from like 2002 - 2013. They are lucky they have some rich alumni who will keep the school up for a bit. And they are attempting to shift to a more diverse enrollment base since their old target demographic of kids want to attend SEC schools now.

And they are the smuggest tools in the world. But my experience with XU fans on Reddit, you guys might have it worst.

BTW, your report on the financial health of private schools is from Moody's. [1] Memphis benefited when Lambuth went under in 2010. We got a whole new campus in Jackson, TN. 02-13-banana

[1] - https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015...riple-2017

My last post, I don't mean to spam your forum. A big indicator of the health of private schools is the discount rate they apply to tuition. The average rate for private schools hit a historic high of 49.1% in 2016. [1] That chart is telling.

[1] - http://www.nacubo.org/About_NACUBO/Press...Again.html

By all means, keep it coming...there are a few higher education professionals on here and we enjoy getting into the nitty gritty.

Good catch on the FH study, the report I read from The CHE cited the Moody's report and I didn't translate. I'm currently in an administrative role at the University of Toledo, and we are definitely benefiting from Lourdes University's decline in the same way Memphis did from Lamb's.

That discount rate is even higher in Ohio...last information we were given from the ODE oversight committee reported a little over 55%, and that was just on voluntary submissions from the almost 70 private schools in Ohio, so you and I both know that number is likely quite a bit higher. It's my opinion that private education is one of the biggest reasons for the downward trajectory of the perception of higher education from the recent Pew surveys (I'll link when I'm off mobile). While public education does cost an exorbitant amount of money, private schools are driving the bus when it comes to the student loan bubble that's coming closer and closer to popping our economy. Combining that with an increased level of competition in higher education is forcing the public schools to drive up their own discount rates, thus affecting public budgets and decreasing the instructional quality they can provide to students due to a lack of financial support.
 
(This post was last modified: 07-12-2017 05:27 PM by BearcatMan.)
07-12-2017 05:26 PM
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FlyingTiger2016 Offline
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Post: #40
RE: University of Cincinnati Expects Record Enrollment in Fall 2017
(07-12-2017 05:26 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 05:10 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 04:44 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 04:02 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 03:33 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  Bolded, is a looming crisis for many private schools, especially if their endowments are small (by the way, the XU endowment is small relative to what they might consider their academic peer group). Sadly, this may be a race to the bottom financially as private school resources are increasingly allocated to subsidize tuition in an effort to compete on a cost basis. St. Joseph's College of Indiana is a cautionary tale in this regard and I believe we'll see many more private schools merging and/or closing in the coming decade as a result.

That's why a recent report on the financial health of private schools in America done by the Commission on Higher Education states that 15%-20% of Private Institutions of Higher Learning are at risk of closure by 2030.

Private schools are the worst. Especially, schools like XU. We have a local school like that called CBU. They cost $35,000 a year for a bare-bones education. Memphis has better students, deeper ties in with the local business community, and way cheaper. But somehow they convince kids to sign up for that scheme. It's sad really. The school was a two year school before the 1960s. The worst part is that their campus is right next to our Football stadium.

I can't wait for them to go bankrupt. Their undergraduate enrollment dropped from 1800 to 1200 from like 2002 - 2013. They are lucky they have some rich alumni who will keep the school up for a bit. And they are attempting to shift to a more diverse enrollment base since their old target demographic of kids want to attend SEC schools now.

And they are the smuggest tools in the world. But my experience with XU fans on Reddit, you guys might have it worst.

BTW, your report on the financial health of private schools is from Moody's. [1] Memphis benefited when Lambuth went under in 2010. We got a whole new campus in Jackson, TN. 02-13-banana

[1] - https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015...riple-2017

My last post, I don't mean to spam your forum. A big indicator of the health of private schools is the discount rate they apply to tuition. The average rate for private schools hit a historic high of 49.1% in 2016. [1] That chart is telling.

[1] - http://www.nacubo.org/About_NACUBO/Press...Again.html

By all means, keep it coming...there are a few higher education professionals on here and we enjoy getting into the nitty gritty.

Good catch on the FH study, the report I read from The CHE cited the Moody's report and I didn't translate. I'm currently in an administrative role at the University of Toledo, and we are definitely benefiting from Lourdes University's decline in the same way Memphis did from Lamb's.

That discount rate is even higher in Ohio...last information we were given from the ODE oversight committee reported a little over 55%, and that was just on voluntary submissions from the almost 70 private schools in Ohio, so you and I both know that number is likely quite a bit higher. It's my opinion that private education is one of the biggest reasons for the downward trajectory of the perception of higher education from the recent Pew surveys (I'll link when I'm off mobile). While public education does cost an exorbitant amount of money, private schools are driving the bus when it comes to the student loan bubble that's coming closer and closer to popping our economy. Combining that with an increased level of competition in higher education is forcing the public schools to drive up their own discount rates, thus affecting public budgets and decreasing the instructional quality they can provide to students due to a lack of financial support.

Yeah Lambuth[1], CBU[2], and Lourdes[3] would be considered peers. Small Endowment and < 2000 students.

Lourdes has a certainly interesting trend in enrollment.

Year: 1998 - 1171
Year: 1999 - 1046
Year: 2000 - None
Year: 2001 - 1235
Year: 2002 - 1135
Year: 2003 - 1202
Year: 2004 - 1398
Year: 2005 - None
Year: 2006 - 1731
Year: 2007 - 1819
Year: 2008 - 1840
Year: 2009 - 1773
Year: 2010 - 1965
Year: 2011 - 2028
Year: 2012 - 2047
Year: 2013 - 1747
Year: 2014 - 1449

What happened?

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambuth_University
[2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_...University
[3] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lourdes_University
 
07-12-2017 07:22 PM
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