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Fair or not, many Herd fans see the 2017 season opener as a referendum on Holliday
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TomorrowHerd Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Fair or not, many Herd fans see the 2017 season opener as a referendum on Holliday
^^^YUP^^^
Doc's got problems. He needs to win, now.
06-22-2017 06:27 AM
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beefcake0520 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Fair or not, many Herd fans see the 2017 season opener as a referendum on Holliday
Incorrect, AJL the receiver was voted off the team by the team. AJL the db left and was not disclosed as to why. To you peps that wasn't even in the conference prior to your arrival, yes, Tulsa, UCF, Houston etc did raise the bar in football, USM was a mainstay in football excellence as well. Don't believe me, look it up, ever hear of Kase Keenum?? To my MU brethren, I do not disagree that we should have been reloading last year on the online, but what I said isn't wrong. We rarely start or play true freshman there, offers on the line mean much less than offers at the skill positions, the oline takes a year or two to develop into division 1 ready players, always has, and seldom has a freshman been already developed enough to come play right away. I have a hard time with the understanding of some of you. Last year made most of us sour, but damn, sink the ship after a bad year? What do you guys think we can afford to do since we lack the budget to be an aac program according to some? It would be asinine to boot a coach that has had 3 straight double digit win seasons, not counting a semi successful 2011 season as well...knee jerk reactions never lead to anything good. That would be like firing stockstill when he has a bad season surrounded by decent ones, woulda been a bad move. This is my opinion, like rectums, we all have one.
07-01-2017 11:09 AM
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THE NC Herd Fan Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Fair or not, many Herd fans see the 2017 season opener as a referendum on Holliday
(06-20-2017 04:45 AM)MUther Wrote:  
(06-19-2017 01:43 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  
(06-18-2017 08:54 AM)herdfifteen Wrote:  The bell appears to be tolling on Holiday at Marshall, they are signing recruits who are getting almost no D1 offers other than Marshall. My suspicion is Holiday knows this is his last roundup so there is little concern how he leaves the cupboard. Of course Pruett, one of MUs most beloved did the same thing.

That is far from correct. Most Olineman we recruit are never highly rated, he goes for lineman who will redshirt and develop, even then a few of those have decent G5/P5 offers. We get our recruiting rankings from skill position players, always and we haven't dove head first into those commitments yet. As far as a comparison to Pruett, that isn't true either. Pruett was up against the wall with scholarship reductions, and in turn he took ALOT of gambles on borderline kids. Most of the "highly touted" recruits he signed never saw the field and the ones that did bombed out. That's not what Doc is doing, he is signing enough eligible kids as guarantees to make it to campus while taking non qualifiers who were blue chips or close to it. The difference iS, a good portion of the non qualifiers make it to the field, granted some like the AJL kids, prime talent, were dismissed due to issues. For every one that goes that route, we have one that succeeds. Doc knows what he is doing with recruiting, he knows the risks, the rewards and the importance of forming the core of your recruiting class. These self entitled kids will run over top of you if you don't set the rules and make them follow those rules. If they don't want to follow them, that's up to them. Doc has been fair to those kids, most are given 2 and 3 chances before the boot comes.


Redshirt and develop? What's the point when they're only going to be here 2 years with or without the redshirt? A lot more than just failed NQs have left the program. Two AJLs left, both voluntarily. Just lost Clarke. A few good linemen. Secondary players. Our 2 deeps are like a junior and a freshman. It's a shambles and in no way resembles what we started getting out of Doc. You can't say someone is building a successful core in year 8 after a 3-9 season. At this stage he should have been just replacing graduates and maintaining a senior laden team, but no upperclassmen are really even left. Certainly not enough to keep us from being called "young" for the umpteenth year in a row.

Since when is a coach renowned for recruiting ever supposed to have a young team?

The lineman point concerns me most, if I remember the 2017 recruiting class, it was full of skill players but I only recall 1 or 2 lineman. Wasn't O-Line play one of the weak points of 2016 season?
07-02-2017 04:11 PM
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MUther Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Fair or not, many Herd fans see the 2017 season opener as a referendum on Holliday
(07-02-2017 04:11 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  
(06-20-2017 04:45 AM)MUther Wrote:  
(06-19-2017 01:43 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  
(06-18-2017 08:54 AM)herdfifteen Wrote:  The bell appears to be tolling on Holiday at Marshall, they are signing recruits who are getting almost no D1 offers other than Marshall. My suspicion is Holiday knows this is his last roundup so there is little concern how he leaves the cupboard. Of course Pruett, one of MUs most beloved did the same thing.

That is far from correct. Most Olineman we recruit are never highly rated, he goes for lineman who will redshirt and develop, even then a few of those have decent G5/P5 offers. We get our recruiting rankings from skill position players, always and we haven't dove head first into those commitments yet. As far as a comparison to Pruett, that isn't true either. Pruett was up against the wall with scholarship reductions, and in turn he took ALOT of gambles on borderline kids. Most of the "highly touted" recruits he signed never saw the field and the ones that did bombed out. That's not what Doc is doing, he is signing enough eligible kids as guarantees to make it to campus while taking non qualifiers who were blue chips or close to it. The difference iS, a good portion of the non qualifiers make it to the field, granted some like the AJL kids, prime talent, were dismissed due to issues. For every one that goes that route, we have one that succeeds. Doc knows what he is doing with recruiting, he knows the risks, the rewards and the importance of forming the core of your recruiting class. These self entitled kids will run over top of you if you don't set the rules and make them follow those rules. If they don't want to follow them, that's up to them. Doc has been fair to those kids, most are given 2 and 3 chances before the boot comes.


Redshirt and develop? What's the point when they're only going to be here 2 years with or without the redshirt? A lot more than just failed NQs have left the program. Two AJLs left, both voluntarily. Just lost Clarke. A few good linemen. Secondary players. Our 2 deeps are like a junior and a freshman. It's a shambles and in no way resembles what we started getting out of Doc. You can't say someone is building a successful core in year 8 after a 3-9 season. At this stage he should have been just replacing graduates and maintaining a senior laden team, but no upperclassmen are really even left. Certainly not enough to keep us from being called "young" for the umpteenth year in a row.

Since when is a coach renowned for recruiting ever supposed to have a young team?

The lineman point concerns me most, if I remember the 2017 recruiting class, it was full of skill players but I only recall 1 or 2 lineman. Wasn't O-Line play one of the weak points of 2016 season?

I think the oline was injury laden again. We were kind of shocked because of all the weight room talk and strength and conditioning. It seemed like the bulk of the conditioning was improving weight totals and not as fixed on flexibility and agility. That leads to injury in 300lb+ guys. That was just speculation thought. There should always be some senior guys, at least juniors, on the line, and that's the most important position to have them. A great receiver or RB is probably gonna be that as a freshman and only get better. A lineman seems to need to develop throughout his career and is most effective with some maturity. That's just my opinion. I think it also helps if they develop early by watching and learning so they don't take a lot of abuse when they're 18 and 19 yrs old. It's definitely a position where we seem to thin out quickly due to injuries.
07-02-2017 08:12 PM
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