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Fair or not, many Herd fans see the 2017 season opener as a referendum on Holliday
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beefcake0520 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Fair or not, many Herd fans see the 2017 season opener as a referendum on Holliday
(06-18-2017 08:54 AM)herdfifteen Wrote:  The bell appears to be tolling on Holiday at Marshall, they are signing recruits who are getting almost no D1 offers other than Marshall. My suspicion is Holiday knows this is his last roundup so there is little concern how he leaves the cupboard. Of course Pruett, one of MUs most beloved did the same thing.

That is far from correct. Most Olineman we recruit are never highly rated, he goes for lineman who will redshirt and develop, even then a few of those have decent G5/P5 offers. We get our recruiting rankings from skill position players, always and we haven't dove head first into those commitments yet. As far as a comparison to Pruett, that isn't true either. Pruett was up against the wall with scholarship reductions, and in turn he took ALOT of gambles on borderline kids. Most of the "highly touted" recruits he signed never saw the field and the ones that did bombed out. That's not what Doc is doing, he is signing enough eligible kids as guarantees to make it to campus while taking non qualifiers who were blue chips or close to it. The difference iS, a good portion of the non qualifiers make it to the field, granted some like the AJL kids, prime talent, were dismissed due to issues. For every one that goes that route, we have one that succeeds. Doc knows what he is doing with recruiting, he knows the risks, the rewards and the importance of forming the core of your recruiting class. These self entitled kids will run over top of you if you don't set the rules and make them follow those rules. If they don't want to follow them, that's up to them. Doc has been fair to those kids, most are given 2 and 3 chances before the boot comes.
06-19-2017 01:43 PM
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WKUYG Away
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Post: #32
RE: Fair or not, many Herd fans see the 2017 season opener as a referendum on Holliday
(06-19-2017 01:29 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  
(06-17-2017 09:21 PM)baruna falls Wrote:  
(06-14-2017 09:53 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(06-14-2017 06:49 AM)GreenSteve Wrote:  What isn't said here is that Holliday has had a much easier path than his predecessor. Gone is UCF, ECU, Tulsa and a resurgent Memphis. He was never able to beat UCF, Even with a weakened CUSA, Holliday has managed to find teams like WKU that he simply can't win against.

His record against MAC teams hovers around .500 and last years debacle against Akron was simply embarrassing. Players get recruited and never see four years of playing time. Many have ended up in legal trouble.

Miami is program on the rise. The first game of the season, will be the bellwether for 2017. If Marshall doesn't win that game... look for a lot of ticket sales promotions the rest of the year.

http://www.underdogdynasty.com/2017/6/13...l-hot-seat

How much easier has Holliday had it in conference? I think this person is missing the boat....

the easier part for Holliday has been OOC. That's where Marshall has scheduled different since 2011. Went from playing 3 OOC games vs BCS schools to hardly any till last season.



Memphis win total since Marshall join CUSA and left in 2012

2005 -20012
7
2
7
6
2
1
2
4

ECU had 4 our of 9 seasons...1 game with in .500

UFC could only put back to back wining seasons together 1 time in 8 seasons.
You say this as Cusa sinks and the American teams have safe harbor. I think most in sports world would disagree with your analysis especially if you look at tv contacts. By all means though keep saying this nonsense as the water rises higher and higher for Marshall. Truth is Marshall needed the teams that left for the American and you know it. Marshall is a great football school but let's s deal in reality not fantasy.
I won't deny that, those schools plus a little more money was the sole reason we left the MAC and probably the sole reason many Herd fans are disgruntled about what CUSA has become. Memphis made us all play up in basketball, now look at our conference ranking in basketball. ECU, UCF, Tulsa, Houston, made the rest play up in Football and was constantly at the top of G5, now look at us. It was a farse leaving Marshall behind and a bigger farse leaving USM whom has a long rivalry with quite a few AAC teams from years of sharing the same conference. Things are what they are though, we deal with it and move on.

Do you just make **** up as you type? Not one of those teams "was constantly at the top of G5" while in CUSA.

From 2005 to 2013 when most played then left CUSA....

2 out of 8 seasons CUSA had a ranked team. As for Marshall the only real difference was your OOC scheduling. Marshall went from scheduling 3 P5/BCS schools to 2 total in your 3 year "run". That's when Marshall's win total started increasing. Well the other factor was Marshall finally found a good QB.

You do know the internet is forever? You can't just make **** up and get away with it.
06-19-2017 02:08 PM
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USM@FTL Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Fair or not, many Herd fans see the 2017 season opener as a referendum on Holliday
We're schools based in WEST VIRGINIA and MISSISSIPPI. Nobody wants to play us, much less associate with us. LOL. We're public relation nightmares. No one else wants us in their conference. Until the next dominoes fall. LOL.

C-USA has only, always needed stability. I wish C-USA would get aggressive and try to compete with the AAC instead of getting cherry-picked itself, most likely by the AAC.
06-19-2017 10:02 PM
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MUther Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Fair or not, many Herd fans see the 2017 season opener as a referendum on Holliday
(06-19-2017 01:43 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  
(06-18-2017 08:54 AM)herdfifteen Wrote:  The bell appears to be tolling on Holiday at Marshall, they are signing recruits who are getting almost no D1 offers other than Marshall. My suspicion is Holiday knows this is his last roundup so there is little concern how he leaves the cupboard. Of course Pruett, one of MUs most beloved did the same thing.

That is far from correct. Most Olineman we recruit are never highly rated, he goes for lineman who will redshirt and develop, even then a few of those have decent G5/P5 offers. We get our recruiting rankings from skill position players, always and we haven't dove head first into those commitments yet. As far as a comparison to Pruett, that isn't true either. Pruett was up against the wall with scholarship reductions, and in turn he took ALOT of gambles on borderline kids. Most of the "highly touted" recruits he signed never saw the field and the ones that did bombed out. That's not what Doc is doing, he is signing enough eligible kids as guarantees to make it to campus while taking non qualifiers who were blue chips or close to it. The difference iS, a good portion of the non qualifiers make it to the field, granted some like the AJL kids, prime talent, were dismissed due to issues. For every one that goes that route, we have one that succeeds. Doc knows what he is doing with recruiting, he knows the risks, the rewards and the importance of forming the core of your recruiting class. These self entitled kids will run over top of you if you don't set the rules and make them follow those rules. If they don't want to follow them, that's up to them. Doc has been fair to those kids, most are given 2 and 3 chances before the boot comes.


Redshirt and develop? What's the point when they're only going to be here 2 years with or without the redshirt? A lot more than just failed NQs have left the program. Two AJLs left, both voluntarily. Just lost Clarke. A few good linemen. Secondary players. Our 2 deeps are like a junior and a freshman. It's a shambles and in no way resembles what we started getting out of Doc. You can't say someone is building a successful core in year 8 after a 3-9 season. At this stage he should have been just replacing graduates and maintaining a senior laden team, but no upperclassmen are really even left. Certainly not enough to keep us from being called "young" for the umpteenth year in a row.

Since when is a coach renowned for recruiting ever supposed to have a young team?
06-20-2017 04:45 AM
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GreenSteve Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Fair or not, many Herd fans see the 2017 season opener as a referendum on Holliday
(06-20-2017 04:45 AM)MUther Wrote:  
(06-19-2017 01:43 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  
(06-18-2017 08:54 AM)herdfifteen Wrote:  The bell appears to be tolling on Holiday at Marshall, they are signing recruits who are getting almost no D1 offers other than Marshall. My suspicion is Holiday knows this is his last roundup so there is little concern how he leaves the cupboard. Of course Pruett, one of MUs most beloved did the same thing.

That is far from correct. Most Olineman we recruit are never highly rated, he goes for lineman who will redshirt and develop, even then a few of those have decent G5/P5 offers. We get our recruiting rankings from skill position players, always and we haven't dove head first into those commitments yet. As far as a comparison to Pruett, that isn't true either. Pruett was up against the wall with scholarship reductions, and in turn he took ALOT of gambles on borderline kids. Most of the "highly touted" recruits he signed never saw the field and the ones that did bombed out. That's not what Doc is doing, he is signing enough eligible kids as guarantees to make it to campus while taking non qualifiers who were blue chips or close to it. The difference iS, a good portion of the non qualifiers make it to the field, granted some like the AJL kids, prime talent, were dismissed due to issues. For every one that goes that route, we have one that succeeds. Doc knows what he is doing with recruiting, he knows the risks, the rewards and the importance of forming the core of your recruiting class. These self entitled kids will run over top of you if you don't set the rules and make them follow those rules. If they don't want to follow them, that's up to them. Doc has been fair to those kids, most are given 2 and 3 chances before the boot comes.


Redshirt and develop? What's the point when they're only going to be here 2 years with or without the redshirt? A lot more than just failed NQs have left the program. Two AJLs left, both voluntarily. Just lost Clarke. A few good linemen. Secondary players. Our 2 deeps are like a junior and a freshman. It's a shambles and in no way resembles what we started getting out of Doc. You can't say someone is building a successful core in year 8 after a 3-9 season. At this stage he should have been just replacing graduates and maintaining a senior laden team, but no upperclassmen are really even left. Certainly not enough to keep us from being called "young" for the umpteenth year in a row.

Since when is a coach renowned for recruiting ever supposed to have a young team?

Hard to argue with that MUther...
06-20-2017 06:19 AM
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MUther Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Fair or not, many Herd fans see the 2017 season opener as a referendum on Holliday
(06-20-2017 06:19 AM)GreenSteve Wrote:  
(06-20-2017 04:45 AM)MUther Wrote:  
(06-19-2017 01:43 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  
(06-18-2017 08:54 AM)herdfifteen Wrote:  The bell appears to be tolling on Holiday at Marshall, they are signing recruits who are getting almost no D1 offers other than Marshall. My suspicion is Holiday knows this is his last roundup so there is little concern how he leaves the cupboard. Of course Pruett, one of MUs most beloved did the same thing.

That is far from correct. Most Olineman we recruit are never highly rated, he goes for lineman who will redshirt and develop, even then a few of those have decent G5/P5 offers. We get our recruiting rankings from skill position players, always and we haven't dove head first into those commitments yet. As far as a comparison to Pruett, that isn't true either. Pruett was up against the wall with scholarship reductions, and in turn he took ALOT of gambles on borderline kids. Most of the "highly touted" recruits he signed never saw the field and the ones that did bombed out. That's not what Doc is doing, he is signing enough eligible kids as guarantees to make it to campus while taking non qualifiers who were blue chips or close to it. The difference iS, a good portion of the non qualifiers make it to the field, granted some like the AJL kids, prime talent, were dismissed due to issues. For every one that goes that route, we have one that succeeds. Doc knows what he is doing with recruiting, he knows the risks, the rewards and the importance of forming the core of your recruiting class. These self entitled kids will run over top of you if you don't set the rules and make them follow those rules. If they don't want to follow them, that's up to them. Doc has been fair to those kids, most are given 2 and 3 chances before the boot comes.


Redshirt and develop? What's the point when they're only going to be here 2 years with or without the redshirt? A lot more than just failed NQs have left the program. Two AJLs left, both voluntarily. Just lost Clarke. A few good linemen. Secondary players. Our 2 deeps are like a junior and a freshman. It's a shambles and in no way resembles what we started getting out of Doc. You can't say someone is building a successful core in year 8 after a 3-9 season. At this stage he should have been just replacing graduates and maintaining a senior laden team, but no upperclassmen are really even left. Certainly not enough to keep us from being called "young" for the umpteenth year in a row.

Since when is a coach renowned for recruiting ever supposed to have a young team?

Hard to argue with that MUther...

To be fair, that isn't all on Doc, either. I think some of the kids these days are just losing something of desire and work ethic. Too many trophies. Too much praise for any little achievement. See people strut onto campus to play and strut off the field after a bad loss and seem more interested in if their selfie turned out good. I guess athletics will slowly spiral down just like the rest of society, eventually.
06-20-2017 10:36 AM
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THUNDERGround Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Fair or not, many Herd fans see the 2017 season opener as a referendum on Holliday
I haven't decided to give up on Doc (like what the the no matters), but we need to see marked improvement...

I hear Pennington is doing good work coaching HS ball in Tennessee...
(This post was last modified: 06-20-2017 02:22 PM by THUNDERGround.)
06-20-2017 12:04 PM
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THUNDERGround Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Fair or not, many Herd fans see the 2017 season opener as a referendum on Holliday
(06-19-2017 01:29 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  
(06-17-2017 09:21 PM)baruna falls Wrote:  
(06-14-2017 09:53 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(06-14-2017 06:49 AM)GreenSteve Wrote:  What isn't said here is that Holliday has had a much easier path than his predecessor. Gone is UCF, ECU, Tulsa and a resurgent Memphis. He was never able to beat UCF, Even with a weakened CUSA, Holliday has managed to find teams like WKU that he simply can't win against.

His record against MAC teams hovers around .500 and last years debacle against Akron was simply embarrassing. Players get recruited and never see four years of playing time. Many have ended up in legal trouble.

Miami is program on the rise. The first game of the season, will be the bellwether for 2017. If Marshall doesn't win that game... look for a lot of ticket sales promotions the rest of the year.

http://www.underdogdynasty.com/2017/6/13...l-hot-seat

How much easier has Holliday had it in conference? I think this person is missing the boat....

the easier part for Holliday has been OOC. That's where Marshall has scheduled different since 2011. Went from playing 3 OOC games vs BCS schools to hardly any till last season.



Memphis win total since Marshall join CUSA and left in 2012

2005 -20012
7
2
7
6
2
1
2
4

ECU had 4 our of 9 seasons...1 game with in .500

UFC could only put back to back wining seasons together 1 time in 8 seasons.
You say this as Cusa sinks and the American teams have safe harbor. I think most in sports world would disagree with your analysis especially if you look at tv contacts. By all means though keep saying this nonsense as the water rises higher and higher for Marshall. Truth is Marshall needed the teams that left for the American and you know it. Marshall is a great football school but let's s deal in reality not fantasy.
I won't deny that, those schools plus a little more money was the sole reason we left the MAC and probably the sole reason many Herd fans are disgruntled about what CUSA has become. Memphis made us all play up in basketball, now look at our conference ranking in basketball. ECU, UCF, Tulsa, Houston, made the rest play up in Football and was constantly at the top of G5, now look at us. It was a farse leaving Marshall behind and a bigger farse leaving USM whom has a long rivalry with quite a few AAC teams from years of sharing the same conference. Things are what they are though, we deal with it and move on.

The problem we had was we didn't fit the AAC model insofar as athletic budget and enrollment. We simply didnt and don't have the money.
06-20-2017 12:08 PM
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SVHerd Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Fair or not, many Herd fans see the 2017 season opener as a referendum on Holliday
(06-20-2017 04:45 AM)MUther Wrote:  
(06-19-2017 01:43 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  
(06-18-2017 08:54 AM)herdfifteen Wrote:  The bell appears to be tolling on Holiday at Marshall, they are signing recruits who are getting almost no D1 offers other than Marshall. My suspicion is Holiday knows this is his last roundup so there is little concern how he leaves the cupboard. Of course Pruett, one of MUs most beloved did the same thing.

That is far from correct. Most Olineman we recruit are never highly rated, he goes for lineman who will redshirt and develop, even then a few of those have decent G5/P5 offers. We get our recruiting rankings from skill position players, always and we haven't dove head first into those commitments yet. As far as a comparison to Pruett, that isn't true either. Pruett was up against the wall with scholarship reductions, and in turn he took ALOT of gambles on borderline kids. Most of the "highly touted" recruits he signed never saw the field and the ones that did bombed out. That's not what Doc is doing, he is signing enough eligible kids as guarantees to make it to campus while taking non qualifiers who were blue chips or close to it. The difference iS, a good portion of the non qualifiers make it to the field, granted some like the AJL kids, prime talent, were dismissed due to issues. For every one that goes that route, we have one that succeeds. Doc knows what he is doing with recruiting, he knows the risks, the rewards and the importance of forming the core of your recruiting class. These self entitled kids will run over top of you if you don't set the rules and make them follow those rules. If they don't want to follow them, that's up to them. Doc has been fair to those kids, most are given 2 and 3 chances before the boot comes.


Redshirt and develop? What's the point when they're only going to be here 2 years with or without the redshirt? A lot more than just failed NQs have left the program. Two AJLs left, both voluntarily. Just lost Clarke. A few good linemen. Secondary players. Our 2 deeps are like a junior and a freshman. It's a shambles and in no way resembles what we started getting out of Doc. You can't say someone is building a successful core in year 8 after a 3-9 season. At this stage he should have been just replacing graduates and maintaining a senior laden team, but no upperclassmen are really even left. Certainly not enough to keep us from being called "young" for the umpteenth year in a row.

Since when is a coach renowned for recruiting ever supposed to have a young team?

Muther is on point. We had way more busts with NQ's than successes. Not sure why some of our fans try to sugarcoat it.
06-20-2017 01:14 PM
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THUNDERGround Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Fair or not, many Herd fans see the 2017 season opener as a referendum on Holliday
(06-20-2017 01:14 PM)SVHerd Wrote:  
(06-20-2017 04:45 AM)MUther Wrote:  
(06-19-2017 01:43 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  
(06-18-2017 08:54 AM)herdfifteen Wrote:  The bell appears to be tolling on Holiday at Marshall, they are signing recruits who are getting almost no D1 offers other than Marshall. My suspicion is Holiday knows this is his last roundup so there is little concern how he leaves the cupboard. Of course Pruett, one of MUs most beloved did the same thing.

That is far from correct. Most Olineman we recruit are never highly rated, he goes for lineman who will redshirt and develop, even then a few of those have decent G5/P5 offers. We get our recruiting rankings from skill position players, always and we haven't dove head first into those commitments yet. As far as a comparison to Pruett, that isn't true either. Pruett was up against the wall with scholarship reductions, and in turn he took ALOT of gambles on borderline kids. Most of the "highly touted" recruits he signed never saw the field and the ones that did bombed out. That's not what Doc is doing, he is signing enough eligible kids as guarantees to make it to campus while taking non qualifiers who were blue chips or close to it. The difference iS, a good portion of the non qualifiers make it to the field, granted some like the AJL kids, prime talent, were dismissed due to issues. For every one that goes that route, we have one that succeeds. Doc knows what he is doing with recruiting, he knows the risks, the rewards and the importance of forming the core of your recruiting class. These self entitled kids will run over top of you if you don't set the rules and make them follow those rules. If they don't want to follow them, that's up to them. Doc has been fair to those kids, most are given 2 and 3 chances before the boot comes.


Redshirt and develop? What's the point when they're only going to be here 2 years with or without the redshirt? A lot more than just failed NQs have left the program. Two AJLs left, both voluntarily. Just lost Clarke. A few good linemen. Secondary players. Our 2 deeps are like a junior and a freshman. It's a shambles and in no way resembles what we started getting out of Doc. You can't say someone is building a successful core in year 8 after a 3-9 season. At this stage he should have been just replacing graduates and maintaining a senior laden team, but no upperclassmen are really even left. Certainly not enough to keep us from being called "young" for the umpteenth year in a row.

Since when is a coach renowned for recruiting ever supposed to have a young team?

Muther is on point. We had way more busts with NQ's than successes. Not sure why some of our fans try to sugarcoat it.

^^^^. Truth
06-20-2017 02:23 PM
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