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How many would be interested in this lineup?
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TodgeRodge Offline
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Post: #51
RE: How many would be interested in this lineup?
(06-14-2017 08:03 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  North Texas St did have a nice run at the start of the Belch. In fact, in the Belch's first year, North Texas St won the Belch and despite having a losing record represented the Belch on the field of battle in the New Orleans Bowl vs Colorado St--a low pick from the MWC. North Texas St fought hard, but ultimately fell short and finished with a 5-7 record. I believe North Texas St has gone to a couple of bowls with losing records.

yes exactly north Texas state had their best run of sustained (be it brief) success since moving up to D1-A again while playing as the lone Texas team in the Sunbelt when there was the CUSA with multiple Texas teams also in existence

and they did go to the first bowl (first ever New Orleans Bowl) with a 5-7 record and I think the rules were looked at and because they "won the conference" they went and then the rules were changed until again recently the rules were changed when there became way too many bowl games

they had horrible facilities, horrible fan support and a horrible budget and played "run" football with DD as coach

and yet in spite of all of that and in spite of their fans crying endlessly to be in the CUSA and crying that "SMU was keeping them out" they still had their best run of success to date while in the Sunbelt

and just last year they went to the dallas bowl with a 5-7 record but again they still (in spite of being in the CUSA and haveing a much better budget and facilities) have not had a run in CUSA like they did in the Sunbelt and most likely they will not for a long time


(06-14-2017 08:26 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  But isn't the Big 12 pulling its pud Todge? 4 Texas teams pulling their pud playing each other, 2 Oklahoma schools pulling their puds playing each other and 2 Kansas schools pulling their puds playing each other. You got Iowa st pulling their puds out there on their island and a very poor academic school pulling their puds about 3,000 miles away from the pud pullers in the ugliest place on earth in Lubbock. A poor academic school, the pokes, pulling their pud just north of Norman and a school east of tumbleweed Tech-Iraq in whacko that makes Louisville look like Liberty with their scandals and wat not. Dem Coogs doh are in a conference with Connecticut which makes the AAC look better than the Big 12 by this pud pulling logic.

yes it would have been much better long term for the Big 12 to have only 3 Texas teams, but TCU was the CLEAR favorite to be in the Big 12 and clearly the best team to add so TCU was added

and the Big 12 NEEDED to have 10 schools so staying at 9 was not an option

and most people say they "passed" on Louisville, but Louisville was NOT going to leave the BE for the Big 12 immediately like WVU would and thus they were not an option IMMEDIATELY to get the Big 12 back to the NEEDED 10 teams for their new Fox tier 2 contract

and you are missing the point again this is not a discussion about was getting into the Big 12 better for TCU yes it was, but was that better for the conference overall long term if there had been other options available like BYU not trying to set their own terms and play "hard ball" or Louisville being ready to come to the Big 12 immediately instead of waiting a year or two to meet their BE contract obligations

and would dem coogs doh fans be excited and feel it was better to be a 5th school in Texas in the Big 12....of course they would, but that would be terrible for the conference long term and most likely terrible for them long term just like when they got in the SWC and had a few winning seasons before deciding that being in the SWC and playing all those other Texas schools was good enough and they stopped investing in facilities, fan support dropped and they started to have long streaks of horrible seasons and never recovered from that

and while I am sure they will all give us great stories of how that would not happen again the point is that it still drags the conference down overall and hurts the conference overall

just like it hurt the SWC when you compare them to the Big 8 even with the Big 8 having all those programs you mentioned in a failed analogy that misses the whole point of the discussion

which the point of the discussion is that when you choose your conference mates based on distance and geography you get all excited about playing a bunch of schools right in your state or in a very confined area you are going to inevitably end up with programs that are not going to value winning Vs just being glad to be in a conference with all their Blue Bird bus ride friends and once that sets in it is impossible to climb out of for the conference even if all those teams doing that change leadership and start making investments

because it drags down your conference overall and because of so much of "the same" recruits simply go elsewhere.....and even if you "get your 25" you get your 25 that totally suck and even if you are the best of the worst you are still with the worst and YOUR program suffers for that and if you are smart you look to GTFO.....if you can

so the better idea is to get in a conference that does not lend itself to being in that situation where a large group of recruits from the same state can look at your conference and say "no thanks going elsewhere don't care about playing other bad teams in the same state and don't care if it is s Blue Bird bus ride away want to fly on a G6 anyway"

(06-14-2017 09:07 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Jesus. This response is all over the road, crossed the median, bounced over the curb and glanced off several buildings.

Just to address one of your "examples". Tech didnt suck because Texas got better. Tech sucked because they fired the only coach that had done anything there in a decade because he was mean to a primadonna player. To this day I have no idea what they were thinking.

Here is where I'll say I think you have a point. You can "over do" the bus league concept. You want some rivals and typically the best rivals are schools close enough that they have some alum representation near your school. If your fans might work with a few guys from the other school---its more likely you might have the makings of a locational rivalry.

By the same token, you dont want then too close as they would start to impinge on your local recruiting area (which is what your point is). So, to me, you clearly wouldn't want all 7 Texas G5 teams in the same conference because, while you might have some good rivalries and low travel expenses, you would have A LOT of overlap their primary recruiting areas.

So, for grins, lets just say every G5 in Texas started football in 2015--so they are all basically just getting started and everyone is essentially even. You could easily have SMU, Houston, and say Texas St in the same league and probably be just fine. They each have a couple hundred miles between them and there is enough overlap of alums in one anothers locations that you could develop rivalries. Not to close, but not too far either. Throw in similar surrounding schools like Tulsa, Ark St, Latech, ULL (or Tulane), Memphis, and S Miss. Thats all you need.

Thats 8-9 schools with about the right spacing that are close enough where there might be fan overlap---but far enough to give each school a solid recruiting area. By the way, thats another place where we agree. A G5 conference doesnt need 12 teams. I'd argue 8 to 10 is the best---and 8 might be optimum since it gives you an extra OOC game.


it was not Texas Tech sucking because Texas got better Texas was having their best run in history at the same time as Tech had captain lazy recruiter, no defense, no clock management, no special teams

Baylor and A&M were totally sucking at that time though which again is the point 4 or more teams in the same state is detrimental to the conference

it was Baylor that improved and Tech started to suck and Texas started to suck as well

and Texas had not yet fired Mack Brown

and Tech did not fire mike because they wanted to they fired him because he did everything possible to not save his job even though he had every opportunity to do so and he refused and backed Tech into a coned where they had no other choice but to fire him

and it had nothing to do with the actual treatment of Adam James it had to do with the fact that mike would not agree to the changes needed to prevent other similar allegations in the future

and anyone that knows the truth and that is not a mike humper pirate idiot understands that mike wanted out of their badly and mike knew that he was about to start getting his ass handed to him and that he had been recruiting terribly even with his run of better seasons and he knew it was all about to fall apart which is why he took the opportunity to make a bad power play that failed and then had to get himself fired to try and save face

he knew that Briles was going to out work him and out coach him and especially out recruit him

but again the point is not that a particular ream or even a couple of teams out of a group of 4 or more in the same state can have a run of success the point is that they will never all perform at a level equal to the overall potential of the conference especially if the conference was more spread out geographically as shown by years of SWC and Big 8 comparisons where the Big 8 had no reason to be performing better year in and year out as a conference with the same number of teams Vs the SWC and even when the SWC had Arkansas which was one additional team and the only team outside of Texas the Big 8 as a conference still performed better generally when it came to number of ranked teams year in and year out.....even if Arkansas was always doing well in the SWC

because 8 other teams all in Texas was a drag on the SWC and players went elsewhere like the Big 8

this is not a discussion about MIGHT this be better for a single team for a while or could this single team come to this conference and do OK for a while

this is a discussion about the fact that when you get all those teams in the same state in the same conference the eventual reality will be that it will drag the conference down and at some point those that can make a move to get away from those other Texas (or what ever other state with 4 or more) teams and if they cannot make a move it will hurt them in the long run as well even if they continue to win because they will be winning one of the worst conferences there is and they will not get much credit for those wins and most of those wins will come in conference and their OOC record will suffer as will bowl wins

so yes TCU should be happy as hell to be in the Big 12, but if the Big 12 does not wake up and play fewer conference games TCU may well find themselves on the outside looking in again as many threads on this forum predict...because that is one way to lessen the impact of having too many teams in the same conference from the same state

north Texas state fans were happy as hell to be in the CUSA, but just a couple of years in they had a horrible season and got drilled by a D1-AA team in one of the worst losses by a D1-A team to a D1-AA team in history

and teams that have no real reason to be consistently better than north Texas state like Louisiana and stAte still in the Sunbelt are doing just fine

as is D1-AA move up Appy State in NC where they have ECU and the ACC schools to recruit against while they play in the Sunbelt

so getting into the CUSA from the Sunbelt has not been what they thought it would be even with new (and a **** ton better) facilities and budget Vs their better years in the Sunbelt

and Rice and UTEP are all doing terrible as well with only UTSA doing OK.....and as soon as UTSA gets a chance (if they get one) if they are smart they will be GONE to the MWC or somewhere else

if not the the CUSA will probably have one dominant Texas team for a long run and several others fighting to the the one that is 6-6 instead of 3-9
06-14-2017 10:25 PM
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Post: #52
RE: How many would be interested in this lineup?
(06-14-2017 08:03 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(06-13-2017 07:20 PM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  
(06-13-2017 02:27 PM)Georgia_Power_Company Wrote:  See the thing posters are ignoring in all of these merge/split/re-arrange CUSA & Sun Belt threads is that the vast majority of the Sun Belt schools are happy with how realignment has turned out so far. Texas St has a bit of a gripe being the only football playing member in Texas but as for the rest we have two geographically friendly divisions with realistic travel partners that cut costs and the Conference revenues are growing each year even without TV $$$ in the mix. Given the realities I think most of our Presidents would listen to a proposal to form a new conference or re-arrange the two but If the money wasn't there why would they agree to it?

If It Doesn’t Make Dollars, It Doesn’t Make Sense!

when (I don't think it is a matter of if) Texas State starts having some bowl seasons they will crush those CUSA schools in recruiting

they are the one that offers an "alternative" just like TCU did in the MWC Vs the CSUA and just like north Texas state did in the Sunbelt Vs the CUSA when north Texas state had their longest string of "success" in the last several decades

now to be VERY CLEAR I am not saying that Texas State will become like TCU and have that LEVEL of HIGH success, but I am saying they will be much more consistent in having 6, 7 or 8 wins and making bowl games Vs any of the Sunbelt schools that might have a bowl season here and there and then drop back to 3 or 4 wins

the exception might be UTSA that can get things rolling and do the same if they keep fan support

with the clear exception of Rice Texas State has as good or better academics than any of the CUSA Texas programs, a much nicer campus and location and a much better "college" experience and all of those things are only improving

and as for the north Texas state comparison I realize their 4 (3) year run of "success" that started with making a bowl game as a 5-7 team ended quickly and turned to total crap, but that is a case of north Texas state doing what they do best which is not being prepared, not having donor support, having total crap facilities, thinking that things were on "automatic", having massively inflated expectations for the future and generally doing everything possible to not sustain that momentum and in fact doing (or not doing) many things to kill it

the idea of having other teams in your state or area in your conference as a "rival" especially when you do not really have a history or a rivalry with them is extremely overrated and the downsides to it are as great or greater than the upsides especially when most of those teams are not good and have little desire to truly have success and they are very similar in terms of academics and other factors

you really end up feeding on each other and eating each other and dragging each other down as recruits just decide to go elsewhere

North Texas St did have a nice run at the start of the Belch. In fact, in the Belch's first year, North Texas St won the Belch and despite having a losing record represented the Belch on the field of battle in the New Orleans Bowl vs Colorado St--a low pick from the MWC. North Texas St fought hard, but ultimately fell short and finished with a 5-7 record. I believe North Texas St has gone to a couple of bowls with losing records.
Most recently representing CUSA.
06-15-2017 10:12 AM
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arkstfan Away
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Post: #53
RE: How many would be interested in this lineup?
We've gone so long without a significant number of independents that people don't understand the value.

Sun Belt formed as a mishmash of independents, Big West, and FCS move ups.

Stability did wonders for most of the schools.

UNT didn't get pushed the early years of the Sun Belt but the stability changed things. They dropped 8 in a row to AState. They got passed by Troy (newer to FBS than UNT), languished while newbies to FBS took shares of the title.

UNT put together four of the best seasons in the history of the school and couldn't get off their duff to do anything about a horribly awful stadium while schools like UL Lafayette, Troy, and AState soon as they had some success went to the donors pushing for improvements.
06-15-2017 10:17 AM
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